Here’s the deal... | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Here’s the deal...

bane said:
Btw thanks for insight. You know someone who works for team?
Click to expand...
I have a few friends that are either in the FO or scouting departments for 4 different teams around the league. Other “acquaintances” around the league as well bc I’m in coaching at the college level myself so no it’s not coming directly out of Miami but more so from around the league. You’d be surprised at how much everyone knows about each other lol.
 
MiaFins31 said:
Let’s start with what we have as far as players with value...

Tua Tagavailoa (Franchise QB or Trade Value)
Myles Gaskins (Starter or Depth)
DeVante Parker (Starter)
Preston Williams (Starter or Depth)
Jaylen Waddle (Starter)
Mike Gesicki (Starter)
Hunter Long (Starter or Depth)
Austin Jackson (Young Depth)
Solomon Kindley (Starter or Depth)
Robert Hunt (Starter)
Liam Eichenberg (Starter)
Christian Wilkins (Starter)
Raekwon Davis (Starter)
Jaelan Phillips (Starter)
Andrew Van Ginkel (Depth and ST)
Jerome Baker (Starter)
Xavier Howard (Starter or Trade Value)
Byron Jones (Starter or Trade Value)
Jevon Holland (Starter)
Jason Sanders (Starter)

The parentheses indicates what they are what they would eventually be or that they bring trade value. Now I’m not saying so and so will be a future superstar or so and so is a bust. I’m simply saying these are the legit NFL players on our roster and they are the most valuable players on our roster. That’s 20/53. That’s less than half of this team that are real NFL caliber guys or have trade value. That’s nowhere near enough for us to compete. Half of those guys (10) are on this list because they’re 1st or 2nd year players so we really don’t know anything yet other than they have the potential which is what gives them value.

Now from what I understand unless we just totally flop and go 1-16/2-15/3-14 Flores almost assuredly will be back. However with any of those records my guys believe Grier would definitely be gone and if we finish with a losing record they still believe Grier would be gone however I want to emphasize that... that is purely speculation and nothing concrete. That’s just what I’ve been told. But Flores has breathing room with Ross bc of the 1st 2 seasons he had. So I’m pretty certain Flores isn’t going anywhere even though I firmly believe he should be gone regardless bc like I said 2 weeks ago he completely lost me going for a tie in OT at LV but that’s for another day.

Grier is on thin ice as we speak. Ross fully expected a playoff team this year and at a minimum we had better been very close. As we all see barring some miracle turnaround that’s not going to be the case. Let’s take a look at the mistakes Grier has made and these are just off the top of my head. Please feel free to add any that I’m missing...

As I’ve stated in other threads we can’t put the Tua selection on him bc as I’ve said that was Ross pulling rank. Other than that....
2020 Draft 3 1st round picks... 1 clear bust in Iggy. It’s teetering on bust for Jackson. All we had to do was move up from 18 to 13 to get Tristan Wirfs who we had rated as the top OL on our draft board but we didn’t want to part with that 3rd rounder that would become Brandon Jones. And Tua we still don’t know 100% for sure even though I’m on the he’s not the guy side of things but nonetheless we don’t know that 100% for sure. When I say we I’m referring to the “football people” in the FO. He will have the rest of this season to show it or not. So if Tua fails that’s 3 complete misses with those 3 1st rounders from 2020. Even though as I said we can’t put Tua on Grier but still it counts somewhat.

The decision in 2019 to send a 2nd and 5th for Josh Rosen. Another complete failure as he lasted 1 year.

Completely ignoring the OL in FA basically the last 2 offseasons as we haven’t signed a guy out of FA that has solidified a starting spot on the OL.

Signing Kyle Van Noy who lasted 1 year. Signing Shaw Lawson who lasted 1 season. I’d say it’s fair to say Byron Jones hasn’t lived up to being worth the highest paid CB in the game bc that’s what they made him at the time and that’s an understatement. Ereck Flowers who lasted 1 year. Ted Karras lasted 1 year. Jordan Howard didn’t even last half a season. All money wasted.

Trading a 4th rounder for Lynn Bowden who’s spending the season on IR and has done nothing. Another deal with no return on investment.

Even though it was a conditional 7th rounder he still made a deal for Isaiah Wilson who didn’t last even a week.

Trading for Bernardrick McKinney who couldn’t even make the final roster cuts.

Outsmarting himself by moving from #3 to #12 and back up to #6 while giving away our own 1st rounder next year to Philly which is looking more likely by the week to be a top 10 pick and maybe even top 5. This is the one that’s just unforgivable to me personally. I knew it was a bad deal when we did it and stated so.

This one goes hand in hand with the paragraph above but trading what’s more than likely going to amount to 2 top 10 picks for a slot WR in Jaylen Waddle is another huge mistake. As JaMarr Chase is showing he was the guy to select at #3. I like Waddle and think he’s going to be very good but he’s getting to where he’s dropping multiple balls every week now. While Chase is putting up 100 yard games with TDs. I wanted Chase and said it over and over here so this isn’t hindsight. We could have stayed at #3 selected Chase and even though we wouldn’t know how to use we would own our 1st rounder for next year which is almost certainly going to be more valuable than SFs 2 #1s combined. We could have even selected Penei Sewell at #3 and I’d still feel a lot better. Some around the league even think that’s what we should have done.

After deciding not to give up a 3rd rounder to move up for Tristan Wirfs in 2020 he decides he won’t let it happen again so he decides to give up a 3rd rounder to move up in the 2nd round for Liam Eichenberg. I like Eichenberg but he’s not Tristan Wirfs. So let’s get this straight. Grier wouldn’t give up a 3rd to move up in the 1st round for the top rated OL on his draft board in Wirfs. But he’s willing to give up a 3rd to move up in the 2nd round for Eichenberg who they like but definitely didn’t have rated as the top OL on the draft board. Another head scratching move.

He’s completely avoided selecting any running back with all these picks the past 2 drafts. Even though Gaskins is starting to really show it now why not select at least 1 tailback in the 1st 3 rounds in the past 2 drafts to compliment him? Another mistake added to the list.

This past year in FA Corey Linsley was willing to visit us and hear an offer. Grier didn’t even pick up the phone and call him. He didn’t even try. So Linsley went to LA to protect Justin Herbert and you see the improvement in LAs OL? Amazing what the best Center in football can do for an OL.

Spent 10 million on Will Fuller who everybody in the league knows is always going to miss games because of injuries. He’s played what 1 game our of the first 5 for us so far? Another terrible decision.

Mike Gesicki is a top 10 TE in football and probably has been our most productive player over the past couple seasons and does he extend him? Nope and probably won’t.

Yet we extend Jakeem Grant who is now traded for a measles 6th rounder. We extend Jerome Baker and even though it’s not a terrible deal money wise for a starting LB Baker is rather average and was about as bad today against TB as I’ve seen him. More head scratching decisions.

All these decisions have been huge mistakes. How can any GM of an NFL franchise survive all these mistakes? I mean everybody is going to make mistakes it happens. But all of these compounded one on top of another? It’s just unbelievable.

I’m on the train of both Grier and Flores along with the entire staff and FO should be gone after this flop of a year and we just start over. The thing is we don’t have to start from scratch like we did when we started this present regime. We have some talent on this team. I fully believe that. We have a very young team but we need a coaching staff that’s going to teach coach and develop these young guys and get them to reach their potentials. A new staff would bring new energy. We need a proven head coach and GM that get hired together as a team and not forced on each other. We need them to have a plan of what we want to be offensively and defensively. We need a staff that’s going to continue to build around the pieces we have now. We still have draft picks coming up and we have money to spend in FA. We need a new staff to bring in some veterans to teach these young guys the NFL way and how to practice how to workout how to treat their bodies nutritionally. We need to do it after this season while we have ammo still in the reserve.
Click to expand...
Nice article!
 
bane said:
So what can we hope for as best case situation for the rest of season? Has team quit? Can Flores change? What should we be focused on because playoffs are not it
Click to expand...
It’s not very much lol. But all joking aside if you’re looking for something to hold on to the main thing would be getting the answer on Tua one way or the other. We need him to stay healthy and finish this season out so we can make a decision one way or the other.

Theys a QB in Texas that we would like to make a move on but we need some people in the FO convinced one way or the other on Tua before we make that decision.
 
This is a lot to read but I did see you put Jerome Baker as a starter. He got DESTROYED. He has the physical traits and looks great on paper but he's just not very good
 
TL;DR

Let me guess, Grier sucks at draft and acquiring talent. Wow, what an original post! Let's write out 10 paragraphs of which pro bowl talent we could have drafted in each picks place!

I feel like it is Groundhog day around here every week lol.

Does anyone on this site stop and think that if you could magically change the draft and put a guy like Wirfs on our team instead of Jackson or Herbert on our team instead of Tua, that the new players would maintain their success? Maybe our coaching, development, and scheme have a massive amount to do with player success. Maybe cycling position coaches every year prevents player growth. Michael Dieter has had 5 OL coaches in his 3 seasons. Tua is on his 3rd (3rd and 4th since it is Co-OCs) Offensive Coordinator.

The theory with schemes in the NFL is that it takes 8 weeks for a full coordinator install. After 8 weeks, the team is usually at full capacity to perform, but what sucks is after 8 bad weeks, most teams are out of playoff contention if they aren't performing well, and even if they make a run towards the end of the season, the coordinators all get fired after poor seasons. This perpetuates the cycle and keeps bad teams perenially at the bottom.

As dumb as it sounds, if we could have stuck with our OC/DC from Flores' first season, we may be a playoff/SB contender. Obviously not doable and another "magically replace something that happened in the past blah blah hindsight 20/20 BS". I know.
 
we
mandal24 said:
This is a lot to read but I did see you put Jerome Baker as a starter. He got DESTROYED. He has the physical traits and looks great on paper but he's just not very good
Click to expand...
It’s no so much an endorsement of him it’s more the fact that he’s already been extended. He’s still relatively young and with the right coaching can be a solid player.

If you had read on down I stated that he was as bad today as I’ve seen him but real football teams don’t make decisions based off of a bad game.

As bad as he was today X was just as bad if not worse but I highly doubt we’ll see him getting the criticism he should. It’s 1 bad game for a player who otherwise has been solid while yet unspectacular.
 
I can't read anything that long. I've watched plenty enough football to know that it's hard to build a good football team and find good football players, and the last thing you should do is make the job harder by creating more holes.

Saban, Gase, and Sparano all took over the job and did a good job out of the gate for the most part by primary using the talent they already had on the roster and supplementing it. And that they ultimately failed had nothing to do with that approach, in fact Gase failed specifically because he got rid of the talent on the roster and replaced it with guys that were second rate, while Sparano also continuously screwed with parts of the roster that were working and made them worse until he was fired.

Flores and Philbin both distinguished themselves early in their regime by having important players on the roster traded away, and ended up failing with the picks they gained in return while also failing to get the guys they brought in to replace the player(s) they traded away.

Get a better gameday coach who will see things and to things this short sighted staff can't do.
 
Burt Macklin said:
TL;DR

Let me guess, Grier sucks at draft and acquiring talent. Wow, what an original post! Let's write out 10 paragraphs of which pro bowl talent we could have drafted in each picks place!

I feel like it is Groundhog day around here every week lol.

Does anyone on this site stop and think that if you could magically change the draft and put a guy like Wirfs on our team instead of Jackson or Herbert on our team instead of Tua, that the new players would maintain their success? Maybe our coaching, development, and scheme have a massive amount to do with player success. Maybe cycling position coaches every year prevents player growth. Michael Dieter has had 5 OL coaches in his 3 seasons. Tua is on his 3rd (3rd and 4th since it is Co-OCs) Offensive Coordinator.

The theory with schemes in the NFL is that it takes 8 weeks for a full coordinator install. After 8 weeks, the team is usually at full capacity to perform, but what sucks is after 8 bad weeks, most teams are out of playoff contention if they aren't performing well, and even if they make a run towards the end of the season, the coordinators all get fired after poor seasons. This perpetuates the cycle and keeps bad teams perenially at the bottom.

As dumb as it sounds, if we could have stuck with our OC/DC from Flores' first season, we may be a playoff/SB contender. Obviously not doable and another "magically replace something that happened in the past blah blah hindsight 20/20 BS". I know.
Click to expand...
Again bro if you don’t want to read it don’t read it. It’s more than just what I think. If you had read it you’d see that. Theirs no character limitation on here so I’ll write however long a post I damn well please and don’t need your permission to do it.

Theys this neat thing about the board and that’s if you don’t want to read or agree with something then you don’t have to. How great is that?
 
MiaFins31 said:
Let’s start with what we have as far as players with value...

Tua Tagavailoa (Franchise QB or Trade Value)
Myles Gaskins (Starter or Depth)
DeVante Parker (Starter)
Preston Williams (Starter or Depth)
Jaylen Waddle (Starter)
Mike Gesicki (Starter)
Hunter Long (Starter or Depth)
Austin Jackson (Young Depth)
Solomon Kindley (Starter or Depth)
Robert Hunt (Starter)
Liam Eichenberg (Starter)
Christian Wilkins (Starter)
Raekwon Davis (Starter)
Jaelan Phillips (Starter)
Andrew Van Ginkel (Depth and ST)
Jerome Baker (Starter)
Xavier Howard (Starter or Trade Value)
Byron Jones (Starter or Trade Value)
Jevon Holland (Starter)
Jason Sanders (Starter)

The parentheses indicates what they are what they would eventually be or that they bring trade value. Now I’m not saying so and so will be a future superstar or so and so is a bust. I’m simply saying these are the legit NFL players on our roster and they are the most valuable players on our roster. That’s 20/53. That’s less than half of this team that are real NFL caliber guys or have trade value. That’s nowhere near enough for us to compete. Half of those guys (10) are on this list because they’re 1st or 2nd year players so we really don’t know anything yet other than they have the potential which is what gives them value.

Now from what I understand unless we just totally flop and go 1-16/2-15/3-14 Flores almost assuredly will be back. However with any of those records my guys believe Grier would definitely be gone and if we finish with a losing record they still believe Grier would be gone however I want to emphasize that... that is purely speculation and nothing concrete. That’s just what I’ve been told. But Flores has breathing room with Ross bc of the 1st 2 seasons he had. So I’m pretty certain Flores isn’t going anywhere even though I firmly believe he should be gone regardless bc like I said 2 weeks ago he completely lost me going for a tie in OT at LV but that’s for another day.

Grier is on thin ice as we speak. Ross fully expected a playoff team this year and at a minimum we had better been very close. As we all see barring some miracle turnaround that’s not going to be the case. Let’s take a look at the mistakes Grier has made and these are just off the top of my head. Please feel free to add any that I’m missing...

As I’ve stated in other threads we can’t put the Tua selection on him bc as I’ve said that was Ross pulling rank. Other than that....
2020 Draft 3 1st round picks... 1 clear bust in Iggy. It’s teetering on bust for Jackson. All we had to do was move up from 18 to 13 to get Tristan Wirfs who we had rated as the top OL on our draft board but we didn’t want to part with that 3rd rounder that would become Brandon Jones. And Tua we still don’t know 100% for sure even though I’m on the he’s not the guy side of things but nonetheless we don’t know that 100% for sure. When I say we I’m referring to the “football people” in the FO. He will have the rest of this season to show it or not. So if Tua fails that’s 3 complete misses with those 3 1st rounders from 2020. Even though as I said we can’t put Tua on Grier but still it counts somewhat.

The decision in 2019 to send a 2nd and 5th for Josh Rosen. Another complete failure as he lasted 1 year.

Completely ignoring the OL in FA basically the last 2 offseasons as we haven’t signed a guy out of FA that has solidified a starting spot on the OL.

Signing Kyle Van Noy who lasted 1 year. Signing Shaw Lawson who lasted 1 season. I’d say it’s fair to say Byron Jones hasn’t lived up to being worth the highest paid CB in the game bc that’s what they made him at the time and that’s an understatement. Ereck Flowers who lasted 1 year. Ted Karras lasted 1 year. Jordan Howard didn’t even last half a season. All money wasted.

Trading a 4th rounder for Lynn Bowden who’s spending the season on IR and has done nothing. Another deal with no return on investment.

Even though it was a conditional 7th rounder he still made a deal for Isaiah Wilson who didn’t last even a week.

Trading for Bernardrick McKinney who couldn’t even make the final roster cuts.

Outsmarting himself by moving from #3 to #12 and back up to #6 while giving away our own 1st rounder next year to Philly which is looking more likely by the week to be a top 10 pick and maybe even top 5. This is the one that’s just unforgivable to me personally. I knew it was a bad deal when we did it and stated so.

This one goes hand in hand with the paragraph above but trading what’s more than likely going to amount to 2 top 10 picks for a slot WR in Jaylen Waddle is another huge mistake. As JaMarr Chase is showing he was the guy to select at #3. I like Waddle and think he’s going to be very good but he’s getting to where he’s dropping multiple balls every week now. While Chase is putting up 100 yard games with TDs. I wanted Chase and said it over and over here so this isn’t hindsight. We could have stayed at #3 selected Chase and even though we wouldn’t know how to use we would own our 1st rounder for next year which is almost certainly going to be more valuable than SFs 2 #1s combined. We could have even selected Penei Sewell at #3 and I’d still feel a lot better. Some around the league even think that’s what we should have done.

After deciding not to give up a 3rd rounder to move up for Tristan Wirfs in 2020 he decides he won’t let it happen again so he decides to give up a 3rd rounder to move up in the 2nd round for Liam Eichenberg. I like Eichenberg but he’s not Tristan Wirfs. So let’s get this straight. Grier wouldn’t give up a 3rd to move up in the 1st round for the top rated OL on his draft board in Wirfs. But he’s willing to give up a 3rd to move up in the 2nd round for Eichenberg who they like but definitely didn’t have rated as the top OL on the draft board. Another head scratching move.

He’s completely avoided selecting any running back with all these picks the past 2 drafts. Even though Gaskins is starting to really show it now why not select at least 1 tailback in the 1st 3 rounds in the past 2 drafts to compliment him? Another mistake added to the list.

This past year in FA Corey Linsley was willing to visit us and hear an offer. Grier didn’t even pick up the phone and call him. He didn’t even try. So Linsley went to LA to protect Justin Herbert and you see the improvement in LAs OL? Amazing what the best Center in football can do for an OL.

Spent 10 million on Will Fuller who everybody in the league knows is always going to miss games because of injuries. He’s played what 1 game our of the first 5 for us so far? Another terrible decision.

Mike Gesicki is a top 10 TE in football and probably has been our most productive player over the past couple seasons and does he extend him? Nope and probably won’t.

Yet we extend Jakeem Grant who is now traded for a measles 6th rounder. We extend Jerome Baker and even though it’s not a terrible deal money wise for a starting LB Baker is rather average and was about as bad today against TB as I’ve seen him. More head scratching decisions.

All these decisions have been huge mistakes. How can any GM of an NFL franchise survive all these mistakes? I mean everybody is going to make mistakes it happens. But all of these compounded one on top of another? It’s just unbelievable.

I’m on the train of both Grier and Flores along with the entire staff and FO should be gone after this flop of a year and we just start over. The thing is we don’t have to start from scratch like we did when we started this present regime. We have some talent on this team. I fully believe that. We have a very young team but we need a coaching staff that’s going to teach coach and develop these young guys and get them to reach their potentials. A new staff would bring new energy. We need a proven head coach and GM that get hired together as a team and not forced on each other. We need them to have a plan of what we want to be offensively and defensively. We need a staff that’s going to continue to build around the pieces we have now. We still have draft picks coming up and we have money to spend in FA. We need a new staff to bring in some veterans to teach these young guys the NFL way and how to practice how to workout how to treat their bodies nutritionally. We need to do it after this season while we have ammo still in the reserve.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, but without identifying their recommended replacements, aren't we playing Russian Roulette?
 
Ray R said:
Fair enough, but without identifying their recommended replacements, aren't we playing Russian Roulette?
Click to expand...
You’re always playing Russian roulette when selecting a coach or GM. I think I’m today’s NFL where you can literally have a turnaround in a year that a regime should get 3 years to put together at least a playoff team with continued progress.

If after 3 years your arrow isn’t pointing up then changes should be made. I believe you keep switching the pieces in an out every 3 years until you get it right.
 
MiaFins31 said:
It’s not very much lol. But all joking aside if you’re looking for something to hold on to the main thing would be getting the answer on Tua one way or the other. We need him to stay healthy and finish this season out so we can make a decision one way or the other.

Theys a QB in Texas that we would like to make a move on but we need some people in the FO convinced one way or the other on Tua before we make that decision.
Click to expand...
Will they give tua the season or move by trade deadline?

Who needs convinced about Watson? Grier needs to see tua or others?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom