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Here’s the deal...

MiaFins31

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Don't be afraid of criticism. Do you expect 100 comments that say "I agree"?
The last thing I’m afraid of in life is criticism from random strangers on a message board. I don’t know how you took what I said as being afraid of criticism when I literally said if you don’t want to read it then don’t.

I just think it’s crazy how people will come into a thread an not take the time to read something but take the time to let the board know they didn’t read it. That’s literally pointless. What does doing that accomplish other than just wanting people to know they didn’t read it I guess? Not really sure on that one
 

LargoFin

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Let's not forget they extended Tannehill.
Then traded him for a fourth round pick and paid 5 million for it.
Then they traded 2nd rounder and a 5th for Rosen.
Then they tanked for Tua.
And everyone was okay with that, no uprising. No one to say stop, what are you doing? Are you out of you mind?
I dont understand why now anyone should be fired. I say we stick with the clown show that's been going on forever and hope for the best like we've been doing.
 

MiaFins31

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Just curious, Are there any candidates for the GM or HC positions from what you have heard?
Not that I’ve heard in a serious way. We’re not to that point yet but after today I would think some of our brass would be putting out the feelers through the back door channels.

I do have a name that I’ll throw out but I want it noted that in no way am I saying theirs any kind of link between this guy and Miami just more of an interesting note.

Peyton Manning has been telling some high ranking people around the league that he’s interested in getting into some type of FO/GM role for a franchise. The reason I bring that up is we all know how Ross loves to make a splash so I’m just saying it’s interesting. Although as much as I like Peyton I don’t think I’d want to give the reigns to another 1st time GM even if it is Peyton Manning.
 

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Not that I’ve heard in a serious way. We’re not to that point yet but after today I would think some of our brass would be putting out the feelers through the back door channels.

I do have a name that I’ll throw out but I want it noted that in no way am I saying theirs any kind of link between this guy and Miami just more of an interesting note.

Peyton Manning has been telling some high ranking people around the league that he’s interested in getting into some type of FO/GM role for a franchise. The reason I bring that up is we all know how Ross loves to make a splash so I’m just saying it’s interesting. Although as much as I like Peyton I don’t think I’d want to give the reigns to another 1st time GM even if it is Peyton Manning.
I’d love for Peyton Manning to be involved in some way. The thought of him and Marino brainstorming together about how to make the team better sounds incredible.
 

PASQUALE

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I call your bluff. You know no one in the organization but I do as I am a remote designer for the organization. Name one person in the FO other than the usual you can't. There is no reason to ramble we all know what is happening. Will there be changes? I doubt it seriously. We cannot throw it all away Flores is a good coach and until we see what Tua can do in these next 12 games and to properly evaluate him. Then and only then we can make a rash decision to tear it down again new HC and GM. But, we have seriously regressed and until we climb out of this hole which I feel we still can with the schedule softening and Tua's return we can start winning again and get to at least 7-10 or 8-9 or 9-8. GO DOLPHINS Win or Lose always there!!!!!
 

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I’ll just add that Jakeem Grant returned 2 punts today - one for 21 yards and another for 17. He also had a 32 yard KO return. No muffs. 19 yard punt return average is field-flipping and contributed to Chi’s win. Players play better after they leave Miami.

PS - even Charles Harris had a sack for Detroit today. Holy cow insult to injury. I need to buy lottos tonight.
Harris is still in the league ?
 

MiaFins31

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I call your bluff. You know no one in the organization but I do as I am a remote designer for the organization. Name one person in the FO other than the usual you can't. There is no reason to ramble we all know what is happening. Will there be changes? I doubt it seriously. We cannot throw it all away Flores is a good coach and until we see what Tua can do in these next 12 games and to properly evaluate him. Then and only then we can make a rash decision to tear it down again new HC and GM. But, we have seriously regressed and until we climb out of this hole which I feel we still can with the schedule softening and Tua's return we can start winning again and get to at least 7-10 or 8-9 or 9-8. GO DOLPHINS Win or Lose always there!!!!!
Well considering I never claimed to know anyone in the Miami organization you’d be correct.

You’re literally repeating exactly what I said about evaluating Tua the rest of the way.

So umm yeah
 

dreamblk

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Here is a better deal

Buffalo has great new owners that what started then the GM and coach made solid long-term decisions not trying to rebuild the Patriot way!

Josh Allen was not great his first two seasons but the Bills kept getting better. Also, they are not flipping coordinators every year on Josh Allen which helps more than people realize.

They also got Diggs in free agency to help Allen now they get Emmanuel Sanders to compliment. Each season they are getting better without a bunch of draft picks.
 

MiaFins31

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Here is a better deal

Buffalo has great new owners that what started then the GM and coach made solid long-term decisions not trying to rebuild the Patriot way!

Josh Allen was not great his first two seasons but the Bills kept getting better. Also, they are not flipping coordinators every year on Josh Allen which helps more than people realize.

They also got Diggs in free agency to help Allen now they get Emmanuel Sanders to compliment. Each season they are getting better without a bunch of draft picks.
Why do we care what happened in Buffalo? It has no effect on the state of our franchise.
 

dreamblk

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Yeah, let's just keep doing what we are doing and not learn from anyone. Nice to meet you Mr. Ross!
 

Jamesw

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This response is going to be ridiculed but I understand the mess he’s in and yes he was stupid for putting himself in those situations but I spent 3 years around this guy when he was Clemson and I don’t believe for a second he forced or tried to force anything on a woman. Now he was definitely a womanizer at Clemson as he women hanging off him all the time I mean all the time. But he was never mean or put them down or did bad things or anything like that.

I mean bro unless you’re a Clemson fan you can’t understand how thirsty we were for success much less a national title. From the second he stepped on campus we all knew he was the guy that was going to take us to the promise land and he did. The guy was the best QB in the country for 2 years and should have won a Heisman but my point is he was the superstar QB who is worshipped in Clemson. If you were 19/20 years old and had women hanging off you at every moment if we’re being honest most men would have been knocking them down left and right just as he was and just like a lot of players do. So I can’t fault him for taking advantage when myself and most other men would have done the same.

I’m not saying he’s completely innocent and I’m sure he was trying to get some favors from this one or that one or a bunch of them but I don’t believe for a second he tried to force any of them. I’m sure some of them may have felt uncomfortable from something he said or a gesture from him but uncomfortable does not equal a crime.

The guy is the best leader of a locker room that I’ve ever personally been around. I’m not saying he’s the best leader I ever saw I’m saying he’s the best leader of a team I’ve known personally and I’ve met my share of great QBs. The team just knows if he’s pulling the trigger we got a chance. Yes his team was awful last year but he wasn’t. His numbers were the best of his career so far.

I’m not saying he’s the answer to all our problems but I am saying we’re a helluva lot closer to the promise land with him than with what we currently have. But I’ll be the first to say I don’t want to give up everything Houston wants and that we shouldn’t.
Your posts are well thought out and insightful. Thank you. I understand DW had women all over him, but he seems to have taken it to a predatory level. I think the PR fall out would really be a horrible distraction.

However, from a pure football POV, I don't think we can afford to give up 3 firsts ++ for him. I would much rather invest those picks into the OL/DL/MLB/RB and if Tua isn't the guy either bring in a vet (Minshew) to compete or draft another QB (hopefully tall/strong/smart and with a rocket arm).

What are your thoughts?
 

MiaFins31

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Your posts are well thought out and insightful. Thank you. I understand DW had women all over him, but he seems to have taken it to a predatory level. I think the PR fall out would really be a horrible distraction.

However, from a pure football POV, I don't think we can afford to give up 3 firsts ++ for him. I would much rather invest those picks into the OL/DL/MLB/RB and if Tua isn't the guy either bring in a vet (Minshew) to compete or draft another QB (hopefully tall/strong/smart and with a rocket arm).

What are your thoughts?
First thank you for the kind words.

As far as DW4 I truly truly don’t believe he’s any kind of predator. He’s definitely promiscuous. He was like that at Clemson. But at the same time when you’re so used to having any woman you want and you don’t really even have to work for it then it can obviously go to your head. I’m sure he got full of himself even to the point where it was like hey I’m DeShaun Watson come do this for me or that for me. It probably made a few of them uncomfortable and maybe they did feel like they couldn’t say no.

I just have a really hard time in believing in today’s world where women are more strong willed and headstrong than ever that all 22 of these women all just happened to be the timid type where they felt they couldn’t say anything. I’ve seen so many guys in my profession alone say really super inappropriate things to a woman and the woman react and just cut the guy down verbally and really embarrass him. Again I understand that not all women are the same I truly do but he just happened to get 22 different women all with that type of timid mentality? That’s just hard for me to believe.

I definitely don’t believe he ever touched or forced any woman to do anything sexually. I’ve been around the guy to much to know better than that. Now I’m sure he may have asked them to do things sexually and if they showed some kind of physical body language where they didn’t like what he said or proposed just knowing him I believe he’d back off and apologize. As a matter of fact I believe one or a couple of the women’s stories go just like that. That’s a part of this from their side that I can totally believe.

DW4 is a straight up mamas boy. His mom is such a sweet and kind lady and she’s been through it health wise believe me. She doesn’t even have a tongue from cancer but he had to grow up really quickly bc this happened when he was young like 14/15 and his mom spent a ton of time in the hospital like months at a time. His aunt is an extremely firm and strong willed woman. They basically tag teamed raising him and knowing them and he himself I just can’t fathom him forcing himself on any woman.

If it turns out I’m wrong then so be it and I’ll be happy to admit I was but I truly don’t think I am. What I will say that he’s guilty of the most is being stupid and putting himself in those situations but sometimes you have to learn a lesson the hard way. God knows I’ve made my mistakes and some large ones at that. So has every single person in the world that ridicules him and cracks jokes and talks s*it about him automatically assuming he’s guilty. Those people are so fast to judge just bc they see 22 women filed lawsuits. They act like they’re perfect and he’s some piece of trash. This saga has been going on for like 6/7 months now and I just believe if their is all these women that by now somebody or some reporter or one or some of these women would have some type of concrete proof and he would have been arrested by now. I mean if it’s that egregious wouldn’t something anything at all have come out by now? That’s where I have a hard time with this whole thing but that’s just me.

As for the football side of things and I’ll admit theirs some obvious bias in me but I would be jumping for joy if we got him as long as it’s under the right circumstances meaning we don’t have to give everything Houston wants. My biggest thing right now is that he wants to be in Miami. We are by far and away his preferred destination. As I’ve said I’m not saying he won’t accept a trade somewhere else but the other couple teams I’ve been told either filled their QB problem this last offseason or drafted a young guy. So my thing is I don’t want us to bid against ourselves knowing we have some type of leverage bc he has the veto power over where he goes.

Philly had a package put together and even made the offer to Houston which Houston wanted to accept but he told them no he wasn’t going to Philly. I say if we could get him for say 2 #1s and 2 players say X and Gesicki then yeah I’d do that deal anyway. But I’m almost sure it’s going to take more than that.

If I were guessing I would guess it’s probably going to look something like...
2022 #1 we own from SF
2023 #1 we own from SF
2023 #1 that’s ours
2022 #2
2023 #2
2024 #4

OR

2022 #1 we own from SF
2023 #1 that’s ours
2023 # 2 that’s ours
Xavien Howard
Mike Gesicki and
Jaylen Waddle or Preston Williams.

But again these are just guesses. Please don’t take it as a certainty.
 

Jamesw

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First thank you for the kind words.

As far as DW4 I truly truly don’t believe he’s any kind of predator. He’s definitely promiscuous. He was like that at Clemson. But at the same time when you’re so used to having any woman you want and you don’t really even have to work for it then it can obviously go to your head. I’m sure he got full of himself even to the point where it was like hey I’m DeShaun Watson come do this for me or that for me. It probably made a few of them uncomfortable and maybe they did feel like they couldn’t say no.

I just have a really hard time in believing in today’s world where women are more strong willed and headstrong than ever that all 22 of these women all just happened to be the timid type where they felt they couldn’t say anything. I’ve seen so many guys in my profession alone say really super inappropriate things to a woman and the woman react and just cut the guy down verbally and really embarrass him. Again I understand that not all women are the same I truly do but he just happened to get 22 different women all with that type of timid mentality? That’s just hard for me to believe.

I definitely don’t believe he ever touched or forced any woman to do anything sexually. I’ve been around the guy to much to know better than that. Now I’m sure he may have asked them to do things sexually and if they showed some kind of physical body language where they didn’t like what he said or proposed just knowing him I believe he’d back off and apologize. As a matter of fact I believe one or a couple of the women’s stories go just like that. That’s a part of this from their side that I can totally believe.

DW4 is a straight up mamas boy. His mom is such a sweet and kind lady and she’s been through it health wise believe me. She doesn’t even have a tongue from cancer but he had to grow up really quickly bc this happened when he was young like 14/15 and his mom spent a ton of time in the hospital like months at a time. His aunt is an extremely firm and strong willed woman. They basically tag teamed raising him and knowing them and he himself I just can’t fathom him forcing himself on any woman.

If it turns out I’m wrong then so be it and I’ll be happy to admit I was but I truly don’t think I am. What I will say that he’s guilty of the most is being stupid and putting himself in those situations but sometimes you have to learn a lesson the hard way. God knows I’ve made my mistakes and some large ones at that. So has every single person in the world that ridicules him and cracks jokes and talks s*it about him automatically assuming he’s guilty. Those people are so fast to judge just bc they see 22 women filed lawsuits. They act like they’re perfect and he’s some piece of trash. This saga has been going on for like 6/7 months now and I just believe if their is all these women that by now somebody or some reporter or one or some of these women would have some type of concrete proof and he would have been arrested by now. I mean if it’s that egregious wouldn’t something anything at all have come out by now? That’s where I have a hard time with this whole thing but that’s just me.

As for the football side of things and I’ll admit theirs some obvious bias in me but I would be jumping for joy if we got him as long as it’s under the right circumstances meaning we don’t have to give everything Houston wants. My biggest thing right now is that he wants to be in Miami. We are by far and away his preferred destination. As I’ve said I’m not saying he won’t accept a trade somewhere else but the other couple teams I’ve been told either filled their QB problem this last offseason or drafted a young guy. So my thing is I don’t want us to bid against ourselves knowing we have some type of leverage bc he has the veto power over where he goes.

Philly had a package put together and even made the offer to Houston which Houston wanted to accept but he told them no he wasn’t going to Philly. I say if we could get him for say 2 #1s and 2 players say X and Gesicki then yeah I’d do that deal anyway. But I’m almost sure it’s going to take more than that.

If I were guessing I would guess it’s probably going to look something like...
2022 #1 we own from SF
2023 #1 we own from SF
2023 #1 that’s ours
2022 #2
2023 #2
2024 #4

OR

2022 #1 we own from SF
2023 #1 that’s ours
2023 # 2 that’s ours
Xavien Howard
Mike Gesicki and
Jaylen Waddle or Preston Williams.

But again these are just guesses. Please don’t take it as a certainty.
Interesting. I can say that I have made jokes about him wanting to go to NE and pair with Kraft. So I'm guilty of poor humor. I understand your point and if he is as innocent as you hope he is, I will gladly eat crow. I understand being a target of "gold diggers and women who chase (A topic for PM) however we differ in that I see the 22 filings against him as a huge negative in him being innocent. Its difficult because of the sheer number of allegations. But I hope truth and justice prevail whatever the resulting outcome.

On the football side of things, I just don't think the value is worth the trade of assets. If he was innocent, the most I would give would be 2 firsts or 1 first, a second and Howard. Again, I prefer to look to the draft, bring in competition (with potential ie. Minshew) or perhaps try and lure A-Rodgers if we really think we are only a QB away from a Super Bowl. I think we are many players (OL/DL/MLB/RB) away from a SB. I understand you're a Clemson fan, but do you really think Watson would have that much impact with our current roster and lack of future draft-picks required for him?
 

MiaFins31

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Interesting. I can say that I have made jokes about him wanting to go to NE and pair with Kraft. So I'm guilty of poor humor. I understand your point and if he is as innocent as you hope he is, I will gladly eat crow. I understand being a target of "gold diggers and women who chase (A topic for PM) however we differ in that I see the 22 filings against him as a huge negative in him being innocent. Its difficult because of the sheer number of allegations. But I hope truth and justice prevail whatever the resulting outcome.

On the football side of things, I just don't think the value is worth the trade of assets. If he was innocent, the most I would give would be 2 firsts or 1 first, a second and Howard. Again, I prefer to look to the draft, bring in competition (with potential ie. Minshew) or perhaps try and lure A-Rodgers if we really think we are only a QB away from a Super Bowl. I think we are many players (OL/DL/MLB/RB) away from a SB. I understand you're a Clemson fan, but do you really think Watson would have that much impact with our current roster and lack of future draft-picks required for him?
Taking the fandom completely out of it and being honest... Would he take this team as it’s constructed today to a Super Bowl? Probably not... Are we a playoff team today with him? I believe so. I believe his impact is that great.

This is not a team completely devoid of talent. We have some big time weapons between DVP Williams Waddle and Gesicki. I’m not saying that’s top 5 in the league but I think it’s most definitely top half of the league. Gaskins who I really really like is really starting to show his skill set. I get the whole he’s not a great pass blocker but I can live with that when he’s producing the way he is. Watson has been playing with average/below average/flat out sorry OLs his whole career even going back to when he was at Clemson. He had elite skill guys around him and though our OL wasn’t terrible they were just good enough and he made up for a ton of missed assignments and things of that sort by getting us out of a bad play and into a good play hot routes check with mes etc. So a below average OL is the last thing I’m worried about with him. Though I do believe our OL with get better with more experience bc they can only go up.

I also believe having Watson back there completely changes the defensive mentality but more importantly the way we call defensive plays. He would allow us to get more aggressive in the playcalling. Aggressive defensive playcalling can/will lead to giving up some big plays but it also leads to lots of pressure which forces mistakes and turnovers. The defense would really feel like well we gave up a big one but that’s ok Watson will get it back for us. I don’t think they feel that way whether it’s Tua or Brissett back there right now. I think that’s heavily contributing to them playing tight and worrying about making mistakes bc they feel like they have to be nearly perfect to give us a chance with how bad our offense is.

I also believe it will rejuvenate the team completely. It will give us energy and the most important thing that can’t be measured or coached... he will give us hope and belief that we truly have a chance to win every time we step on the field. I’m a big believer in the QB being worth more than just what his stats on the field show.

If we acquire him will we have some holes still? Of course but we have SO MUCH young talent on this team that’s on their rookie contracts that we will still have some breathing room cap wise. You can always manipulate the cap somehow. We have to get creative. Also Watsons contract is not this monster QB contract that everybody likes to make it out to be. He’s on the books for a tad over 10 million this year which is insanely low but even over the next 3/4 years it only jumps to high 20s/low30s. He’s not in the 40 million a year bracket like some other guys around the league. It’s really not the crippling contract some are making it out to be.

With all that said I still would prefer to wait til the offseason to do all this. I’ve stated I want Grier/Flo and this regime out. I don’t think I’ll get my way with both but I’m pretty sure one of them is going to have to take the fall for this season we’re going to have. So we will get a fresh start in one area or the other almost assuredly. So whoever we were to bring in I would want them to be on board with a move of that magnitude before making any deal. We don’t need anymore dissension in the ranks of the FO/coaching staff. We all have to be pulling in the same direction.
 
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