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Hot Take Tuesday

A 2nd round pick for a dirt cheap 22 year old is not a high pick.

I'd make that trade 10 out of 10 times, no matter the outcome..

I would also that's why I am saying we need to see what we traded for.if we don't play him and do bad then we invest a high first rounder at same position and he has even less trade value. I am saying we invested enough to actually see what we have
 
I would also that's why I am saying we need to see what we traded for.if we don't play him and do bad then we invest a high first rounder at same position and he has even less trade value. I am saying we invested enough to actually see what we have

Well with Fitzy back there Rosen will get plenty of chances lol.
 
A 2nd round pick for a dirt cheap 22 year old is not a high pick.

I'd make that trade 10 out of 10 times, no matter the outcome..

Exactly...1000 times out of 1000.

Just throw away the names. Ignore the outcomes. Keep the philosophy and everything will work out fine.

I haven't been paying much attention to training camp. But from the blurbs I've read the disturbing aspect is that Flores seemed fixated on results and hard work. That is standard fare and will lead nowhere. You'll end up with a roster full of journeyman overachiever types if you care about who shows up early in July and August and wins the driving range drills. The reason the preseason ratings system is so superb is that it demotes meaningless results in favor of early excellence and raw ability.

I was hoping for hints of brilliance from Flores. Just say or do something that sets apart. Comparisons to the way it is done in New England mean absolutely nothing. The likelihood of even fractionally replicating that program is near zero. Tom Brady turned Belichick and the Patriots into legends. Not the other way around. Brady's surreal talent level and clutch aspects cleanse every move made by that organization. It is a howl when he is demoted on all-time lists, or taken for granted. Anyone who puts someone like Drew Brees above him might as well just sit in the corner with a dunce cap. Andy Dalton is mocked for lack of post season wins. Then somehow the criteria is reversed in regard to Tom Brady. Now we don't care about postseason performance at all, but brainstorm to adjust downward or claim any other quarterback would be doing similar on that team.

Great thinking. I can't wait for the next serving.
 
I think Flores is saying all the right things because he wants Rosen to earn it. He also doesn't want to lose the respect of the locker room. The players will know who should be starting. They won't like the idea of sacrificing their bodies every week while having less of a chance to win (in their minds, that is).
I agree with that. Sure, he would prefer Rosen to ball out and win the spot, but he doesn't want the kid to win it by default and then face real NFL defenses before he's ready and repeat the fiasco of Arizona. Plus, if he starts, that means he's on the field for games 1-5, when the offense is still learning the system and not yet firing on all cylinders. Better to let Fitz weather that storm, then bring in Rosen when once the offense has gotten up to speed.
 
Exactly...1000 times out of 1000.

Just throw away the names. Ignore the outcomes. Keep the philosophy and everything will work out fine.

I haven't been paying much attention to training camp. But from the blurbs I've read the disturbing aspect is that Flores seemed fixated on results and hard work. That is standard fare and will lead nowhere. You'll end up with a roster full of journeyman overachiever types if you care about who shows up early in July and August and wins the driving range drills. The reason the preseason ratings system is so superb is that it demotes meaningless results in favor of early excellence and raw ability.

I was hoping for hints of brilliance from Flores. Just say or do something that sets apart. Comparisons to the way it is done in New England mean absolutely nothing. The likelihood of even fractionally replicating that program is near zero. Tom Brady turned Belichick and the Patriots into legends. Not the other way around. Brady's surreal talent level and clutch aspects cleanse every move made by that organization. It is a howl when he is demoted on all-time lists, or taken for granted. Anyone who puts someone like Drew Brees above him might as well just sit in the corner with a dunce cap. Andy Dalton is mocked for lack of post season wins. Then somehow the criteria is reversed in regard to Tom Brady. Now we don't care about postseason performance at all, but brainstorm to adjust downward or claim any other quarterback would be doing similar on that team.

Great thinking. I can't wait for the next serving.


Dude, OMG, forgive me -- but does someone have an absolute Brady boner?!

OK. Let's pretend this thing called history doesn't exist. But for fun, we will.

Brady was a 6th round pick for a reason. First of all, he's pretty much a ZERO as an athlete. If you disagree, go back and research his combine. And funny things is -- his own HC is on record of basically saying the same thing!

Beyond that, he's the absolute DEFINITION of a "system" QB in the respect no one with any bonafide historical context would claim that he would achieve anything remotely near the success he's had if he was inserted into a crap team with inferior coaching in a bad situation etc. He is, by every definition, the PRODUCT of the system he's benefited from.

In my eyes, he's nowhere near the prolific talent of a Dan Marino, or Archie Manning, or Payton Manning, or Fouts, or Unitas, or Baugh, or Bradshaw, or Montana, or... I mean the list goes on -- and on -- and on...

Beyond that -- Brady is also the product (and direct beneficiary) of the "Brady rule" era of the N F L and historically would have been eaten alive back in the era when we didn't play flag football at the QB position.

And last, let's be real. He's a also a certified deflated balls cheater that obviously needs a handicap to perform at the level he's achieved. And if you think that's BS -- just go and check the numerous comments relative to that debate including the likes of Curt Warner and many others.

So yea. The dude has parlayed his average arm and below average athleticism into a highly successful NFL career by being in the PERFECT place at the PERFECT time. But historically, his "game" is vastly inferior to the true greats at the position. And I believe his elevation to "greatness" is in reality a scar on the real integrity of an NFL master level great QB.

That's my take.

And as always, I reserve the right to be wrong.

But historically I'd take a TON of QBs as my MAN before Brady.

BNF
 
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Dude, OMG, forgive me -- but does someone have an absolute Brady boner?!

OK. Let's pretend this thing called history doesn't exist. But for fun, we will.

Brady was a 6th round pick for a reason. First of all, he's pretty much a ZERO as an athlete. If you disagree, go back and research his combine. And funny things is -- his own HC is on record of basically saying the same thing!

Beyond that, he's the absolute DEFINITION of a "system" QB in the respect no one with any bonafide historical context would claim that he would achieve anything remotely near the success he's had if he was inserted into a crap team with inferior coaching in a bad situation etc. He is, by every definition, the PRODUCT of the system he's benefited from.

In my eyes, he's nowhere near the prolific talent of a Dan Marino, or Archie Manning, or Payton Manning, or Fouts, or Unitas, or Baugh, or Bradshaw, or Montana, or... I mean the list goes on -- and on -- and on...

Beyond that -- Brady is also the product (and direct beneficiary) of the "Brady rule" era of the N F L and historically would have been eaten alive back in the era when we didn't play flag football at the QB position.

And last, let's be real. He's a also a certified deflated balls cheater that obviously needs a handicap to perform at the level he's achieved. And if you think that's BS -- just go and check the numerous comments relative to that debate including the likes of Curt Warner and many others.

So yea. The dude has parlayed his average arm and below average athleticism into a highly successful NFL career by being in the PERFECT place at the PERFECT time. But historically, his "game" is vastly inferior to the true greats at the position. And I believe his elevation to "greatness" is in reality a scar on the real integrity of an NFL master level great QB.

That's my take.

And as always, I reserve the right to be wrong.

But historically I'd take a TON of QBs as my MAN before Brady.

BNF
Bravo bravo well said.
 
Josh Rosen's ceiling is Ryan Fitzpatrick.

I don't have 3 years to see if this guy has it. I want a guy who is undeniably a great quarterback and Josh Rosen is not that.

Everyone crying about Rosen not starting needs to realize that Fitzpatrick will play most of the season and Rosen will get his turn to spell him if/when he gets injured.

I will give him more time but that time is running out.

Baker Mayfield didn't struggle like this in camp for the Browns last year against Tyrod Taylor. Everyone could see he could hold his own. Why is that not evident here?

I think we know why ladies and gentlemen... Because Rosen is not, and has not shown the capability of being, a franchise quarterback.
One think that CK said that echoed something Bill Parcells always said … made a real impression on me.

CK said that every top QB of the last 10+ years--every one--showed true flashes of greatness, either for a stretch of games, or a game or two, and some even for parts of games … but there were undeniable streaks of greatness … true flashes of being something special. Sure, there were also atrocious bits for most of them … but none that became great were strait mediocre as rookies. I'm paraphrasing CK of course, but he said something along those lines.

Bill Parcells used to quip, "if they don't bite as puppies, they'll never bite as dogs" or something like that. Essentially, people get better, but if they don't have flashes of "it" then they're not going to be great.

I look at Rosen and just didn't ever see those flashes. He has the tools … he could be great … but he never put it together. There are a precious few, like Rich Gannon, who put it together later … but those are awfully rare. My fear is that Rosen just isn't the answer, and I don't want to miss the window of THREE excellent QB's in the 2020 draft that could very well be the answer, just because we're wasting another 5-10 years to see whether Rosen develops. IF he can't beat out Fitzmagic, then Rosen isn't the answer. If he doesn't have a few wow games … I'm just not going to be convinced heading into the 2020 draft.

Ultimately it's not how one tests, or how great they were in college … it's about how well they play against the best of the best in the NFL. When the chips are down, do they deliver? When their team needs them to rally and win the game, will they produce? I'm not asking whether they can deliver, I'm asking whether they will deliver. Guess we'll find out one way or the other this season.

Despite all of this seeming negativity from me, let me temper this by noting that it's still too early to make a final determination about the kid. Even after the season starts its too early. But, he has a limited number of chances to prove he's got the goods, and every regular season game counts, every pre-season game counts a little bit, and every practice session matters a tad as well. Without those flashes, he's not going to earn a shot in the regular season to prove anything. We're all waiting for Josh to stop worrying about making mistakes and how people view him … and for him to start ripping it and willing the team to victory, inspiring his teammates to ride or die with him, and sacrificing himself in the film room to become the master of every opponent we face all year. It's there for the kid … but the mountain is not coming to Muhammad … so if Rosen wants to be great, he needs to go claim greatness with sweat equity, selfless behavior, and a work ethic that exceeds everyone associated with the team.
 
Plus it's essentially a trade down for next year's draft since they got a 2nd back from the Saints.
Well, sort of, but remember they could just as easily used that new 2nd rounder to pick someone else, like maybe Chase Winovich or Zach Allen, and still had the 2nd in 2020 from the Saints. Both those guys were still available at the end of round 2 with the pick we ultimately traded for Rosen. IMHO, the trade back was a good one because of the 2020 2nd, and the measuring stick for Rosen will be how Chase Winovich does for the Patriots, who run the same defense. If he turns out to be good, that's what we gave up to take a flyer on Rosen. If he turns out to be a bust, no loss.
 
Josh Rosen's ceiling is Ryan Fitzpatrick.

I don't have 3 years to see if this guy has it. I want a guy who is undeniably a great quarterback and Josh Rosen is not that.

Everyone crying about Rosen not starting needs to realize that Fitzpatrick will play most of the season and Rosen will get his turn to spell him if/when he gets injured.

I will give him more time but that time is running out.

Baker Mayfield didn't struggle like this in camp for the Browns last year against Tyrod Taylor. Everyone could see he could hold his own. Why is that not evident here?

I think we know why ladies and gentlemen... Because Rosen is not, and has not shown the capability of being, a franchise quarterback.
Lot's of rambling without any substance. Taylor started the season for the Browns? Why?
 
Lot's of rambling without any substance. Taylor started the season for the Browns? Why?

Because even with the evident coaches are still scared to take a risk and start rookies. The substance was that we have not seen Rosen show he can better than Fitzpatrick, which justifies him not starting.

You yourself said it, even Mayfield didn't start the first game and he earned it, but some of you want Rosen to start without even earning it.

Btw what substance did your statement have?
 
Because even with the evident coaches are still scared to take a risk and start rookies. The substance was that we have not seen Rosen show he can better than Fitzpatrick, which justifies him not starting.

You yourself said it, even Mayfield didn't start the first game and he earned it, but some of you want Rosen to start without even earning it.

Btw what substance did your statement have?
Here's a thought. Let the coaches decide who starts at QB and you run with it an support it. You nor I decide who starts so pull for the team and not the player.
 
Fitzpatrick's career started in 2005 with a 117.5 QB rating after putting up 310 yards, 3 TD's and 1 pick. Unfortunately his next three games ended up with 1 TD and 7 picks.

Also unfortunate is that's the way his entire career has been.

He will probably start the season but he will likely get pulled at some point after a couple, multiple pick games.....just like last year.

It's just a matter of time before Rosen gets the nod..

I'm still guessing game 5 for his first start.
 
Here's a thought. Let the coaches decide who starts at QB and you run with it an support it. You nor I decide who starts so pull for the team and not the player.

Well duh. But I am not going to stop giving my opinion on the obvious. Like when Dallas Thomas was on this team. Like when Daniel Thomas was on this team. Like when Jason Allen was on this team. Like when Ryan Tannehill was on this team.

It's fine if you want to sit there and watch and wonder what is wrong, but I am not going to bite my tongue when what is wrong is evident.
 
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