How comfortable are you with Grier spearheading the rebuild? | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

How comfortable are you with Grier spearheading the rebuild?

isaacjunk

FinHeaven VIP
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
690
Reaction score
810
Age
48
My eval so far:
a) consistently excellent value on trades for picks
b) league average returns on 1-2 round draft picks the past 4 years (just because you trade a player doesn't mean he's a bust, you need to look at the value you got back for them)
c) above average returns bottom of the draft / UDFA past 4 years
c) I applaud the boldness in scorching the roster for Tua (as long as they actually pick him), I do believe it was necessary to all but ensure the #1 pick in a 16-game season where variance is high
d) very few GMs have a track record of special talent in picking players. Most fall in the average range, some are horrid. If we agree Grier is in that average range, then it makes total sense to stock up on as much ammo as possible within a short window to 'surge' for a rebuild. Also, if you are average in picking, then making sure you get a franchise QB is the main thing. After that, you have much greater room for error to make 'safe picks'. So I agree that going all out to get the #1 for Tua makes a ton of sense.
e) could've structured the tank to allow for those on the squad to grow. Don't you want a stable offensive line to be able to evaluate skill players? I imagine there are ways of tanking that still allow you to keep continuity so the whole season is not a total waste. In fact I'd rather that they gut one whole side of the ball--say the defense for example---to at least allow the other half to make progress while still keeping the win total super low. Would also be great for team morale / culture buy-in to see at least one unit make obvious progress. Doesn't seem like he thought it through to this level.
f) Coaching staff seems relatively competent but jury still out on some position groups

I think people don't appreciate how much luck is involved with drafting and forget that hindsight is 20/20. I really think that most of the respected members on this forum applauded the minkah pick, and few could've thought he would flame out for the reason he did. Certainly the vast majority seemed to think it was a solid, defensible pick, same as Wilkins. Thus how can you blame Grier for this, especially since he was drafted under a different defensive system entirely?

Therefore, luck also extends to drafts as a whole. Say we end up with 8 1st and 2nd round picks the next 2 years. Statistically that is a very small sample size. Even if you had great decision making, there is a high chance that several of those could flame out. How many people panned Jeff Ireland's and Rick Spielman's drafts while here? But they've drafted quite well since then. Small sample size. Put another way, given the same quality of decision making, those 8 picks could end up being 3 all pros or none, just based on luck, and the difference could sink or swim your franchise.

A huge pet peeve is seeing people judge a decision or small set of decisions simply based on the outcome. You really need to look at the underlying reasons when the sample size is small, and realize sometimes things fail even when you make great decisions. That's what makes getting Tua so critical, because margin for error is so much greater if you have a transcendent talent at QB.

It's like the stock market...if you have a base of money (Tua + good coaching staff), then you can afford to invest in mutual funds (take safe picks) rather than trying to beat the market, and still retire comfortably.

From another direction, if you don't think you can beat the market, the smartest thing to do is ensure a franchise qb any way you can, load up on picks and money, and surround them with good coaches. Then try to be league average on your fa / draft returns.

Bottom line: I like the way overall he has setup the big picture, but don't think he has any special ability to pick'em in the draft. As always, we will need a bit of good luck with our picks -- or at least not bad luck -- to have the tank truly be worth it but the overall strategy makes a lot of sense. Hopefully he realizes he is not a talent evaluation genius and relies on a consensus approach with respected folks like Ozzie Newsom to pick our top picks.
 
Last edited:
While I am happy with his ability to get top return in the trades he has made recently. I still am very wary in his ability to select quality players with these draft picks. His history so far as the teams GM has been fairly mediocre when it comes to the early rounds of the draft.

Since Ross, Grier, and Flores have decided to tear the team down to the studs. They can not afford to miss on any of their early draft picks the next two years. Especially when they traded two of their cornerstone players to get these first round draft picks.

Hopefully Grier hired the right assistants to help him pick the top talent to come in and turn this team around in the next two years. I was hoping Ross would hire a new GM to rebuild the team but since he didn’t, I just hope Grier ends up being the right man for the job.
 
I am confident in the structure Grier has put in place -- specifically the addition of Marvin Allen and Reggie McKenzie (boots on the ground doing the down and dirty investigative work to maximize the procurement of talent).

In addition, Flores has a scouting/evaluation background and it's been clearly defined he's included in the "collaborative process."

In my view Grier has played the game many moves ahead by creating the core structure to maximize our draft potential in ADVANCE of the high-value deals (swindles?) he's orchestrated.

Even the constant nags can't deny the masterful job he's done setting this franchise up with a cache of draft bounty that's probably unparalleled.

So he completely rebuilt the scouting dept., dumped dead wood, and has undeniably done the best job we've ever seen around here leveraging assets for premium draft capital.

TBum is gone. And the stupidity of his ways are gone. Grier obviously clearly defined his "plan" to Ross and Ross (to his billionaire credit) admitted the METHOD he was behind (read TBum) was the "definition of insanity."

I think the man (Mister Grier) may have just performed the BEST rapid-fire deconstruction/reconstruction plan ever witnessed in the NFL!

And let's put it this way -- if the team he's assembled crushes the picks he's harvested the dude will be legendary!

Oh yeah, and let's not forget the salary cap bonanza he's also accumulated.

But I consider that the cherry on top!
 
Last edited:
I'm not sure Miami has ever had the likes of talent evaluators such as Marvin Allen and Reggie McKenzie, in the organization. We fans won't know how good or bad until a few years down the road. I've always felt Miami was behind the eight ball, with regards to scouting and talent evaluating. Since Grier took over as the main player in the F/O, he's changed things. Miami now has scouts at practices, which they never had before. They have scouts in numbers at games and seem to be doing things very differently than in years past. This may be nothing, but again it could lead to more signings like Ledbetter and Williams as UDFA and be the difference between drafting a star or drafting just another guy? I'm very anxious to see where this all leads. If nothing comes of it, than Grier finally gets shown the door. With regards to Minkah Fitzpatrick, Grier had no other option and he did quite well. That decisiveness showed me a lot.
 
After looking ahead at the Dolphins schedule, wow, do they play some questionable teams. Maybe not Dolphins bad, but bad enough to put the first overall pick into question. Jets twice (starting QB nightmare); Pittsburgh (Mason Rudolph?); Indy (Jacoby Brissett?); Redskins (yuck); New York Giants (only if Daniel Jones is the second coming); Cincinnati (they suck). God forbid the Dolphins find their footing as the season progresses and fails forward fast to a few meaningless wins.
 
After looking ahead at the Dolphins schedule, wow, do they play some questionable teams. Maybe not Dolphins bad, but bad enough to put the first overall pick into question. Jets twice (starting QB nightmare); Pittsburgh (Mason Rudolph?); Indy (Jacoby Brissett?); Redskins (yuck); New York Giants (only if Daniel Jones is the second coming); Cincinnati (they suck). God forbid the Dolphins find their footing as the season progresses and fails forward fast to a few meaningless wins.


Was thinking about that myself recently. Will definitely have some competition for worst of the worst. I wouldn't underestimate how bad the Bengals have looked.

I don't think this current fins team has the talent or coaching to accidentally beat anybody fwiw.
 
When a gifted player fails to live up to his potential or the potential fans believe they have seen in him its so hard to judge who failed. Is it the scouts in identifying specific traits, the GM in deciding how those traits fit within the context of the team, the coaches in failing to utilize them or the player just not being interested in putting forth the effort?

To me the real test of the GM is when it is time to hand out contracts. Players are paid based on a body of work at the professional level and is that cannot be properly judged then something is very wrong. When it comes to the draft the GM has to trust the judgement of the scouts and the ability of the coaches. There are going to be some misses. All you can do as a fan is hope that those misses are few and far between.
 
there is absolutely no reason to feel comfortable with grier using all these picks unless you are a master of mental gymnastics and are able to convince yourself otherwise

Just wondering... Is that an "opinion" or a fact in your view?

Beyond that, in your mind, does the inclusion of dudes like Marvin Allen

and Reggie McKenzie factor into your fact/opinion process at all???

Your indictment of Grier is actually a broader indictment

if you choose to open your eyes.

In my opinion. Of course.

BNF
 
Just wondering... Is that an "opinion" or a fact in your view?

Beyond that, in your mind, does the inclusion of dudes like Marvin Allen

and Reggie McKenzie factor into your fact/opinion process at all???

Your indictment of Grier is actually a broader indictment

if you choose to open your eyes.

In my opinion. Of course.

BNF

it includes everything....what has grier done to instill confidence he can draft adeptly? Marvin Allen was director of scouting right? So that position means everything in regards to him but nada when used to criticize grier who held the same position through some of our worst drafts.... but is now suddenly discounted cause it doesnt fall in line with your agenda. You've already come to your conclusion....youre just twisting the information to support it.....mental gymnastics
 
Just wondering... Is that an "opinion" or a fact in your view?

Beyond that, in your mind, does the inclusion of dudes like Marvin Allen

and Reggie McKenzie factor into your fact/opinion process at all???

Your indictment of Grier is actually a broader indictment

if you choose to open your eyes.

In my opinion. Of course.

BNF


Choose to open your eyes? He's been here 20 years. What in the world have you been looking at?

Spin it however you want but I deal in reality and results. Neither are pointing the needle in a good direction.
 
it includes everything....what has grier done to instill confidence he can draft adeptly? Marvin Allen was director of scouting right? So that position means everything in regards to him but nada when used to criticize grier who held the same position through some of our worst drafts.... but is now suddenly discounted cause it doesnt fall in line with your agenda. You've already come to your conclusion....youre just twisting the information to support it.....mental gymnastics

The "agenda" is yours my friend and it's obviously radically negative.

It's so easy to just blurt out negativity while completly IGNORING the many and

essential positives already accomplished. Seriously, mental "gymnastics?"

This is simpleton stuff.
 
Back
Top Bottom