How good is Waddle? | Page 9 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

How good is Waddle?

TrogdorTheBurninator

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Thats not entirely fair or true.

I think Tua is about an average starting NFL QB. It has nothing to do with what anyone in the media said.

Last year I had the QBs rated:

1) Herbert
2) Burrow
3) Tua/Hurts Ceiling
4) Love
5) Hurts floor

For someone to just disregard my own analysis and say that its due to some idiots I don't even listen to is insulting.

All of us shouldn't make these type of blanket statements. Until you ask a person why they feel a certain way the reality is you just don't know.
I actually feel like he's referring to the poster I originally responded to instead of you. Maybe because I don't feel like you fit that category, but the other dude does imo...
 

EJay

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Tua came off a major injury and really only played 9 games, but I guess those are excuses.

I refer to them as reasons, not excuses. Citing reasons for something occurring doesn't mean you are also ignoring or excusing the result.


It seems these days there is no more rookie year, players have to come in and play at top level or they get dismissed.

I don't believe that's the view of most front offices. It's the lazy fan's POV. Which seems to be even more prevalent among the younger generation.

Despite whatever fans and media were saying, the Bills didn't eject Josh Allen after year one. Or even after year two when his accuracy was still an issue.

Hell, MIA isn't that far removed from giving Ryan Tannehill EIGHTY-EIGHT starts to prove himself. And there's a faction of fans here still bitching that they finally parted ways with him.

But somehow many of the same fans are done with Tua after only 9 starts???

Patience is a rapidly dying skill, apparently.
 
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EJay

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Thats not entirely fair or true.

I'm reading what @Durango2020 said a little differently that you are.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think he was generalizing. Making the point that much of the narrative crafted around Tua right now is largely media driven.

I do believe there's a lot of truth to that. I also believe a lot of it has to do with people just being grossly impatient and being the instant gratification type.

That doesn't mean the generalization applies to you. I'm pretty sure it doesn't.
 

Durango2020

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Thats not entirely fair or true.

I think Tua is about an average starting NFL QB. It has nothing to do with what anyone in the media said.

Last year I had the QBs rated:

1) Herbert
2) Burrow
3) Tua/Hurts Ceiling
4) Love
5) Hurts floor

For someone to just disregard my own analysis and say that its due to some idiots I don't even listen to is insulting.

All of us shouldn't make these type of blanket statements. Until you ask a person why they feel a certain way the reality is you just don't know.
I am not pointing out fans who call him average. There are people and some fans that are specifically using the word bust on him.

To me a bust means that you need to replace this guy as he won't go far in the organization.
If you see him as average but can see him improving to become the franchise player then you are not in the category of people I have mentioned.
 

Durango2020

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I refer to them as reasons, not excuses. Citing reasons for something occurring doesn't mean you are also ignoring or excusing the result.
I agree with this

I don't believe that's the view of most front offices. It's the lazy fan's POV. Which seems to be even more prevalent among the younger generation.

Despite whatever fans and media were saying, the Bills didn't eject Josh Allen after year one. Or even after year two when his accuracy was still an issue.

Hell, MIA isn't that far removed from giving Ryan Tannehill EIGHTY-EIGHT starts to prove himself. And there's a faction of fans here still bitching that they finally parted ways with him.

But somehow many of the same fans are done with Tua after only 9 starts???

Patience is a rapidly dying skill, apparently.
Yep my point is that typically with certain position skillsets in football such as QB, it's typically understood that it takes a few seasons (maybe 3) to really gage the player. It's premature to use the term bust just after 1 season.
There may be glaring issues where an organization is in a situation where they will move on from a QB just after 1 year. This is what we saw with Josh Rosen. Specifically with Rosen it seems that there are certain issues with this player as the Dolphins also moved on from him.
I have to assume that if similar issues were there with Tua the Dolphins would have probably stayed at #3 and picked a new QB.

One thing we do know is if Grier/Flores don't feel a player fits their system, they will move on from that player. This tells me that they see Tua as a long term player which will help the team achieve greatness.
 

AMakados10

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I'm a Tua fan. I think he'll be super this year. I still would've drafted Lance and let them compete because I'd rather double down at QB than get an extra WR but that's me. Also, I don't think Tua will regularly make it 17+ games a season.
 

Vaark

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Is that concrete all around or is it in my head?
like always happens when a certain type of player comes along that kills it, the NFL has been trying to replicate Tyreek Hill so since he came on the scene there have been copycats taken every draft. None of them approach his success because the teams lack a QB like Mahomes, a TE like Kelce and a coach like Reid. That doesn't stop them though. Waddle is a stud. But a luxury when you already have a very good threesome in Parker, Fuller and Williams. I don't hate the player but hate that it cost two 1st rounders. If he stays healthy and we get a franchise QB he'll be fine. It's usually prudent to actually get the franchise QB first before taking guys like Waddle though and we'll regret passing on Lance for a 15 like we'll regret passing on Herbert. I do think when you don't have a franchise QB like us, having someone like Waddle to run sweeps and bubble screens will open up things for Parker and Fuller. We just have to hope Tua isn't completely useless and can take advantage of that. Let's hope he and the others stay healthy. Anything less than 1400-12 TDs will be a major disappointment. That's the type of production that the draft capital spent should bring. It still won't be able to compete with having Lance for 15 years but it would mean he's producing as much as Chase and Pitts should.
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Digital

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It is a great question. Nobody doubts his elite speed and quickness. Let's see him use it on an NFL football field and see him succeed where other elite speed/quickness guys like Jakeem Grant and Albert Wilson have failed. Every team in the league would want Tyreek Hill ... but so far only one team has him. Let's hope we're next.
 

TrogdorTheBurninator

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like always happens when a certain type of player comes along that kills it, the NFL has been trying to replicate Tyreek Hill so since he came on the scene there have been copycats taken every draft. None of them approach his success because the teams lack a QB like Mahomes, a TE like Kelce and a coach like Reid. That doesn't stop them though. Waddle is a stud. But a luxury when you already have a very good threesome in Parker, Fuller and Williams. I don't hate the player but hate that it cost two 1st rounders. If he stays healthy and we get a franchise QB he'll be fine. It's usually prudent to actually get the franchise QB first before taking guys like Waddle though and we'll regret passing on Lance for a 15 like we'll regret passing on Herbert. I do think when you don't have a franchise QB like us, having someone like Waddle to run sweeps and bubble screens will open up things for Parker and Fuller. We just have to hope Tua isn't completely useless and can take advantage of that. Let's hope he and the others stay healthy. Anything less than 1400-12 TDs will be a major disappointment. That's the type of production that the draft capital spent should bring. It still won't be able to compete with having Lance for 15 years but it would mean he's producing as much as Chase and Pitts should.

Rosen is a natural QB prospect. A legit NFL starting QB talent. Tannehill was not. He was a functional athlete trying to play QB. Tannehill literally did nothing well. Rosen has shown more in one preseason game than I saw in all the years Tannehill wasted for us.

this is why we're the laughingstock of the NFL and have been for decades. There wasn't a fair QB competition. This was decided on long before camp started. It also means Flores doesn't reward players that earn it like Rosen did. And Flores and Grier lack conviction. Because if they truly believe Fitz deserved it, they would have played Rosen last night. Literally every "backup" QB in the NFL played last night. But they have so little faith in their decision that they couldn't allow Rosen to play and provide more proof that he should be the starter. That's weak. Nothing about this regime inspires confidence. This is a terrible team regardless of who is starting. So you gain nothing by going with the vet. And even if Rosen IS a legit franchise QB, there isn't enough talent for him to make it a winning team. He could have a similar year to Baker and it still wouldn't matter. But it'd be valuable experience and growth that would help going forward. I feel like they are hoping to suck and draft a QB next season. That's fine. There are a few QBs (opinions differ as to the order of their talent) who are all similarly talented as Rosen to choose from. But then...don't trade a 2nd rounder for Rosen if that's the plan. It's dumb. And if your hope is to parlay Rosen into picks via a trade, you actually need to showcase him to do so which can't happen if he's sitting behind a 37 y/o. You gain nothing by playing Fitz. You gain knowledge and certainty by playing Rosen. He either proves he's worth sticking with as a franchise QB going forward, in which case you can trade the high pick in next year's draft for a King's ransom and surround Rosen with talent. Or he doesn't, and you know you need to draft a QB next year. But how can you find this out if he's on the bench? The fact that Grier and Flores can't evaluate talent is alarming. We knew this about Grier but Flores is now suspect. It's going to be a long, head scratching year of futility. If I was in MIA I wouldn't spend a dime on this franchise. This is embarrassing.

Entertaining to say the least lol

EDIT:
On a Flores presser....
the guy can barely put two sentences together. He's a horrible speaker. I'm afraid it won't be long before he loses the locker room. A terrible hire. It's likely going to take many of you years (if not until he's fired) before you accept this. I've never seen a worst coached team in my life and hearing him struggle to articulate even the most basic coach speak is troubling.
 
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TheRevoltingBlob

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He truly is a HR threat and something this offense was sorely lacking.

Love the player. However, a player like this usually isn’t picked top 10. Austin was the last, and he didn’t work out close to his draft position.

With the success of Tyreek Hill, I am sure we will see more high gambles on these types of WRs.
Yeah, the search for "the next Tyreek" has been a bit weird. Now nearly every top prospect that is below 6 feet and runs a sub 4.3 gets a Tyreek comp. Ruggs did.

But that's ignoring what makes Tyreke special. He's not just fast running in a straight line. He's the most elusive WR in the league. He can start, stop, and change direction on a dime. (In addition, he is also very strong for his size/speed combo)

That can't be measured w a single number. And that combination of traits creates an effective football speed that can't simply just be matched by guys that run a straight line as fast as he does.

I think player comps are pretty useless in general, unless you are totally unfamiliar w a player and want to get a small hint of their play style.

We drafted a dynamic playmaking speedster in a league where everyone is looking for more speed. But we didn't draft the next Tyreek. We drafted Waddle. I'm good w that.
 
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