How Passing Rule Changes have Ruined the NFL - Dan Marino - wow!

[royalshank]

This thread was inspired by the thread going right now called "Things were better in the NFL" and specifically, the comical post made by Alex Trevelyan where he tried to make the point that the game is better today because QB is better - but he used QBR as the sole basis for his argument and called out HOFers and great or good QBs for poor QBRs in the 70's - going so far as to state Blake Bortles is playing better than those guys. A few things when you look at this data:

1. 10 of the top 15 QBRs of all time are held by current players - anyone who doesn't think the Polian rules have altered the game more than any other rule change in the last 2 or 3 decades needs to have their head examined.

2. It absolutely is easier to throw the ball today and if your QB can't put up north of a 90 QBR for a season you are probably in trouble.

3. Joe Montana and Dan Marino (and to an extent so does Steve Young) really stand out as being light years ahead of their times - the QBRs they posted for their careers were almost unheard of until now. Further evidence of their domination during their playing careers.

I for one hope the NFL will make some adjustments to how defense can be played. The cheap yardage (as Awsi calls it) is boring football - the bubble screens, picks off the line etc - I preferred the game when a pass was down the field. What happened to all those WRs with 17-21 yard per catch averages? We know what happened - they really don't exist too much because everyone is throwing the short, easy completion now. The QBs of today are not better, nor are they smarter than yesterday. They execute like robots and the ones who can improvise (a lost art for most) are the ones who make the clutch plays when it matters most. This convergence to a one-dimensional game is not good for the sport in the long run. At what point - and we are starting to see it now - does it the game become another "no need to watch until the last 5 minutes" type sport?

Anyhow, thought you guys would find this interesting.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_career_passer_rating_leaders

green = active, pink = HOF

 

[SCLSU Mud Dogs]

Please use the regular quarterback rating format instead of the bull**** ESPN created

 

[Phinatic8u]

ESPN qbr is the dumbest thing I've ever seen..

They factor in so much extra bull**** that doesn't make sense.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Please use the regular quarterback rating format instead of the bull**** ESPN created

Those are the regular ratings. ESPN's QBR max score is 100 (I believe). Rodgers' score of 106 is impossible in ESPN's rating.

 

[royalshank]

regardless of which one you use, it is biased to today's play. I'm using the same one used in the other post I referred to - the ratings posted by AT were "these" ratings. It is far easier to throw the football today - no matter what QBR you use. Just look at completion percentage - that is also way up vs yesteryear...

---------- Post added at 01:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:44 PM ----------

Those are the regular ratings. ESPN's QBR max score is 100 (I believe). Rodgers' score of 106 is impossible in ESPN's rating.

thank you - these are the official ratings used by the NFL. I think some are missing the point though.

---------- Post added at 01:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:45 PM ----------

Here is the definition:

Passer rating (also known as quarterback rating, QB rating, or passing efficiency in college football) is a measure of the performance of passers, primarily quarterbacks, in American football and Canadian football.[1] There are two formulae currently in use: one used by both the National Football League (NFL) and Canadian Football League (CFL), and the other used in NCAA football. Passer rating is calculated using a player's passing attempts, completions, yards, touchdowns, and interceptions. Since 1973, passer rating has been the official formula used by the NFL to determine its passing leader.[2]

Passer rating in the NFL is on a scale from 0 to 158.3. Passing efficiency in college football is on a scale from -731.6 to 1261.6.

 

[roy_miami]

Came in here thinking Marino had written an article. Dissapoint.

 

[royalshank]

and here are where some other active QBs would rank all time if they met the minimum attempts:

Marcus Mariota way better than Bradshaw, Griese, Staubach, Stabler, Namath, etc

Active QBs below minimum attempts needed
Rank if
Qualified Quarterback Rating Attempts
2 Russell Wilson 98.0 1486
10 Marcus Mariota 92.6 162
11 Tyrod Taylor 92.1 172
11 Nick Foles 92.0 1080
13 Robert Griffin III 90.6 1063
14 Colin Kaepernick 88.5 1360
23 Jameis Winston 85.6 210
24 Shaun Hill 85.5 1183
25 Teddy Bridgewater 85.3 613
29

---------- Post added at 01:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:50 PM ----------

Came in here thinking Marino had written an article. Dissapoint.

pointing out how much he stood out in his time - but the larger discussion is one that is going on in another thread and the assertion that QB play is "better today".

 

[Bridgeburner]

This thread was invalidated by the use of QBR

 

[SSnowman]

This thread was invalidated by the use of QBR

and failure to read

 

[Roman529]

The passing rules changed because the NFL feels more fans will watch, more people will play fantasy football, and gamble on FanDuel and DraftKings which is focused on picking the players who can score the most points each week.

 

[royalshank]

The passing rules changed because the NFL feels more fans will watch, more people will play fantasy football, and gamble on FanDuel and DraftKings which is focused on picking the players who can score the most points each week.

that bothers me but I guess it is what it is. Really wish defense could play defense today.

---------- Post added at 01:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:54 PM ----------

This thread was invalidated by the use of QBR

so if you actually read you'd realize you are agreeing with me. The original premise was that QBR is being used in active discussion on this board right now to make the argument that the QB play of today is better than it was yesterday because QBRs are higher. Thanks for your contribution though!

 

[Nawledge]

I miss the old days where u were actually allowed to hit the qb and actually play defense and crush a guy...guys like welker and edelman would have gotten taken off on a stretcher back in the day, noone is afraid to go over the middle anymore. I agree football was vetter many many years ago. The rules that favor the qbs have ruined the sport in my opinion. The defense isnt allowed to play defense and almost every penalty results ina first down for the offense. I really believe if marino played in todays nfl he wouldve thrown for 100,000 yards

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Bill Walsh entered the league at the perfect time. I've always doubted he would have been as successful a half decade earlier and certainly not a full decade earlier.

The league started getting concerned with a game that had become too physical and defense dominated in the early to mid '70s, parallel to the Dolphins' glory years and early Steelers. I remember those early whispers. They would surface from league executives and repeated by announcers who had their ear. Naturally I wanted no part of any change. The Dolphins were dominating. I loved run oriented power football and attack mode on defense.

The league finally found an excuse with the Isaac Curtis situation. He was a leggy speedster who grabbed league attention running takeoff patterns for pretty touchdown bombs as a rookie. That playoff game in 1973 against the Dolphins was hyped as Miami's smart No Name defense versus Kenny Anderson to Isaac Curtis. It never materialized because Tim Foley and Curtis Johnson chopped down Curtis at the line of scrimmage on play after play. Curtis couldn't cope at all. I noticed it immediately from the stands and absolutely loved it. Anderson would drop back to throw with his primary target wiped out. I distinctly remember the panic in his footwork and body language. Bill Stanfill and Manny Fernandez are crashing down on him and his intended target is struggling to regain his footing, with a cornerback hovering over him like a boxer awaiting another swing after a knockdown.

That is the NFL that so many current analysts are trying to use for comparison purposes in statistical terms. Hysterical. I try not to pick on newcomers to this site because they don't know any better. It's become very commonplace for young fans to grab a record book and assume everything was identical or close enough. Adjustments are popular except where they belong. I've ripped Aaron Schatz here probably more than I've ripped Earl Mitchell largely because Schatz is in a high profile influential position yet he could not be more ignorant along these lines. They actually use him on NFL Network programs making the familiar lazy assertions. No wonder younger fans think it is apropos when they have someone like that abusing the same themes.

Many of the most significant changes are never spotlighted. I remember when holding and tripping and illegal use of hands were 15 yard penalties, not 10. Those penalties ruined a drive, partially accounting for the hesitance to pass so frequently. Your receivers were getting battered and the defensive lineman was allowed to head slap. No kidding that lineman is going to hold. Once he's caught your drive is a huge underdog. The quarterback was forced to throw it deep into coverage, contributing to the lower completion percentage and higher interception percentage but also much higher yards per completion when it worked.

The Isaac Curtis Rule was among the first wave of important changes in 1974, the offseason following the Dolphins/Bengals playoff game. Then the Steelers had a very famous defensively dominant year in 1976, using a backup quarterback with Bradshaw hurt. That Steeler defensive run was one of the most legendary ever, alongside the 1985 Bears, even though the team missed the playoffs. Nobody wanted to face Pittsburgh in the playoffs. Once the league saw it was still possible to eliminate offense, there were further rules changes in 1977 and again in 1978. All were designed to make the league more quarterback friendly. I hated it because I still liked fullbacks and run oriented football. Keep in mind the situational scenario at the time. We still had Griese late in his career, along with many of the linemen. The WFL had long since folded and beloved Csonka was no longer a priority for the struggling Giants. There were whispers he would return to Miami, and he did, for one excellent year, if only one, in 1979.

Back to Bill Walsh. He takes over the 49ers the same year, in 1979. Quite fortunate. The rules changes benefiting the passing game are in place, with far less contact in the secondary. No head slap either. That was among the moves in the late '70s. I hated that one also.

Walsh understood better than anyone that creative short passing schemes could take advantage of the more quarterback friendly NFL. He deserves tremendous credit for that. Again, I remember some analysts mentioning it fairly early but many didn't pay much attention because San Francisco was struggling.

I could go on and on. The natural offshoot of Walsh's success was that many from his coaching tree went elsewhere and applied the same philosophies while adding their own wrinkles. That was great. I've mentioned many times that I thought the league had it right in the '90s. There was plenty of room for any style, whether it was Dallas with Emmitt Smith combined with Irvin and Harper downfield, or the Bills with their more pass oriented attack, and even the Oilers having mixed success and mockery with the Run N Shoot. The rushing attempt numbers didn't change appreciably, nor the snaps from under center.

Then it got out of hand in the early 2000s, with that Colts at Patriots playoff game probably the main culprit. I saw Polian's name mentioned. Deservedly. He had influence and wanted to make darn sure the rules were enforced as written. Kind of ironic that New England was the handsy perpetrator in that game but now they are largely the beneficiary.

Many games are now unwatchable, at least from my perspective. I seldom watch the Patriots or Packers or the occasional other team that abuses the forward pass with an elite quarterback. It's legalized stealing, thanks to further rules changes like restrictions on hitting the quarterback. I honestly have no idea where those defenders are supposed to aim, especially when the quarterback can still draw the flag when he ducks or dips at the last second, causing the -- horrors -- grazing glance to the helmet.

It also makes an unbeaten season far more accessible. The Dolphins in 1972 led the league in offense and defense. Now you can get away with half a loaf.

I doubt we'll see examples like the 2013 Seahawks very often. The league didn't like that, hence the barrage of penalties in the secondary in preseason 2014.

The current setup enables lots of close games among the Crowd teams while enabling the Cream quarterbacks and teams to roam mostly non threatened and monopolizing. Green Bay seems shocked and disgusted that they have already lost two games. I imagine Roger Goodell is quite pleased. Not only is fantasy prospering as long as it can survive one potential congressional inquiry, but you have plenty of young fans who can watch records being broken right and left while concluding that the game in their era is bigger and better than ever.

 

[royalshank]

Bill Walsh entered the league at the perfect time. I've always doubted he would have been as successful a half decade earlier and certainly not a full decade earlier.

The league started getting concerned with a game that had become too physical and defense dominated in the early to mid '70s, parallel to the Dolphins' glory years and early Steelers. I remember those early whispers. They would surface from league executives and repeated by announcers who had their ear. Naturally I wanted no part of any change. The Dolphins were dominating. I loved run oriented power football and attack mode on defense.

The league finally found an excuse with the Isaac Curtis situation. He was a leggy speedster who grabbed league attention running takeoff patterns for pretty touchdown bombs as a rookie. That playoff game in 1973 against the Dolphins was hyped as Miami's smart No Name defense versus Kenny Anderson to Isaac Curtis. It never materialized because Tim Foley and Curtis Johnson chopped down Curtis at the line of scrimmage on play after play. Curtis couldn't cope at all. I noticed it immediately from the stands and absolutely loved it. Anderson would drop back to throw with his primary target wiped out. I distinctly remember the panic in his footwork and body language. Bill Stanfill and Manny Fernandez are crashing down on him and his intended target is struggling to regain his footing, with a cornerback hovering over him like a boxer awaiting another swing after a knockdown.

That is the NFL that so many current analysts are trying to use for comparison purposes in statistical terms. Hysterical. I try not to pick on newcomers to this site because they don't know any better. It's become very commonplace for young fans to grab a record book and assume everything was identical or close enough. Adjustments are popular except where they belong. I've ripped Aaron Schatz here probably more than I've ripped Earl Mitchell largely because Schatz is in a high profile influential position yet he could not be more ignorant along these lines. They actually use him on NFL Network programs making the familiar lazy assertions. No wonder younger fans think it is apropos when they have someone like that abusing the same themes.

Many of the most significant changes are never spotlighted. I remember when holding and tripping and illegal use of hands were 15 yard penalties, not 10. Those penalties ruined a drive, partially accounting for the hesitance to pass so frequently. Your receivers were getting battered and the defensive lineman was allowed to head slap. No kidding that lineman is going to hold. Once he's caught your drive is a huge underdog. The quarterback was forced to throw it deep into coverage, contributing to the lower completion percentage and higher interception percentage but also much higher yards per completion when it worked.

The Isaac Curtis Rule was among the first wave of important changes in 1974, the offseason following the Dolphins/Bengals playoff game. Then the Steelers had a very famous defensively dominant year in 1976, using a backup quarterback with Bradshaw hurt. That Steeler defensive run was one of the most legendary ever, alongside the 1985 Bears, even though the team missed the playoffs. Nobody wanted to face Pittsburgh in the playoffs. Once the league saw it was still possible to eliminate offense, there were further rules changes in 1977 and again in 1978. All were designed to make the league more quarterback friendly. I hated it because I still liked fullbacks and run oriented football. Keep in mind the situational scenario at the time. We still had Griese late in his career, along with many of the linemen. The WFL had long since folded and beloved Csonka was no longer a priority for the struggling Giants. There were whispers he would return to Miami, and he did, for one excellent year, if only one, in 1979.

Back to Bill Walsh. He takes over the 49ers the same year, in 1979. Quite fortunate. The rules changes benefiting the passing game are in place, with far less contact in the secondary. No head slap either. That was among the moves in the late '70s. I hated that one also.

Walsh understood better than anyone that creative short passing schemes could take advantage of the more quarterback friendly NFL. He deserves tremendous credit for that. Again, I remember some analysts mentioning it fairly early but many didn't pay much attention because San Francisco was struggling.

I could go on and on. The natural offshoot of Walsh's success was that many from his coaching tree went elsewhere and applied the same philosophies while adding their own wrinkles. That was great. I've mentioned many times that I thought the league had it right in the '90s. There was plenty of room for any style, whether it was Dallas with Emmitt Smith combined with Irvin and Harper downfield, or the Bills with their more pass oriented attack, and even the Oilers having mixed success and mockery with the Run N Shoot. The rushing attempt numbers didn't change appreciably, nor the snaps from under center.

Then it got out of hand in the early 2000s, with that Colts at Patriots playoff game probably the main culprit. I saw Polian's name mentioned. Deservedly. He had influence and wanted to make darn sure the rules were enforced as written. Kind of ironic that New England was the handsy perpetrator in that game but now they are largely the beneficiary.

Many games are now unwatchable, at least from my perspective. I seldom watch the Patriots or Packers or the occasional other team that abuses the forward pass with an elite quarterback. It's legalized stealing, thanks to further rules changes like restrictions on hitting the quarterback. I honestly have no idea where those defenders are supposed to aim, especially when the quarterback can still draw the flag when he ducks or dips at the last second, causing the -- horrors -- grazing glance to the helmet.

It also makes an unbeaten season far more accessible. The Dolphins in 1972 led the league in offense and defense. Now you can get away with half a loaf.

I doubt we'll see examples like the 2013 Seahawks very often. The league didn't like that, hence the barrage of penalties in the secondary in preseason 2014.

The current setup enables lots of close games among the Crowd teams while enabling the Cream quarterbacks and teams to roam mostly non threatened and monopolizing. Green Bay seems shocked and disgusted that they have already lost two games. I imagine Roger Goodell is quite pleased. Not only is fantasy prospering as long as it can survive one potential congressional inquiry, but you have plenty of young fans who can watch records being broken right and left while concluding that the game in their era is bigger and better than ever.

love this write up. Was hoping you would lend some perspective here. I forgot that '72 team led the NFL in both offense and defense. Incredible. "Legalized stealing" - that's another good one. I find those offendes so boring to watch as their is no drama, no intensity - just soulless viewing.

---------- Post added at 04:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:39 PM ----------

I miss the old days where u were actually allowed to hit the qb and actually play defense and crush a guy...guys like welker and edelman would have gotten taken off on a stretcher back in the day, noone is afraid to go over the middle anymore. I agree football was vetter many many years ago. The rules that favor the qbs have ruined the sport in my opinion. The defense isnt allowed to play defense and almost every penalty results ina first down for the offense. I really believe if marino played in todays nfl he wouldve thrown for 100,000 yards

omg yeah - Edelman and Welker - they wouldn't have stood a chance.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

Found this interesting and relevant for your thread RoyalShank.

Gil Brandt ‏@Gil_Brandt 6h6 hours ago
A new record for highest passer rating has been set each NFL season since 2010

2015 90.8
2014 88.9
2013 86.0
2012 85.6
2011 84.3
2010 84.1

Though college QB's have come into the NFL game with more knowledge & experience of passing concepts, and professional personnel & schemes have catered to a higher percentage of throwing attempts, it's the recent rule changes that have drastically altered, and IMO, ruined the game by making it one dimensional with the delusional appearance that it is some how better featuring statistical anomalies.