I would like to hear more opinions of CK and Boomer about our draft plans. | Page 7 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

I would like to hear more opinions of CK and Boomer about our draft plans.

1. I disagree that Ryan is as accurate as Beck. When I watch Ryan's games he doesn't hit people in stride like Beck does. He makes his receivers make harder catches (like Harrington did, but not as bad). I think that hurts his completion percentage particularly on the longer passes. And I don't think height is much of an issue if your QB is at least 6'2". Anything above that only provides very marginal advantages (if any). The age is a downgrade as far as potential longevity but I think there are other factors that affect so I don't place as much importance on that as other factors (ie. accuracy). I do believe that Ryan is a good prospect but he's not great and certainly no more worthy of being the #1 overall than Beck was. All in all I believe that Beck has a slightly higher chance of NFL success.

2. I agree that there is a drop of from Long to the other Ts. I'm starting to believe that he could have a Joe Thomas-like affect on our line. I think you make a great point about the skill set requirements for LTs being in flux. And while I still believe that C. Long is the most likely choice I would be every bit as happy with J. Long.

3. I'm worried about the ILB position. If we don't take an ILB early then I think they may be planning on just using bodies there to plug up the middle and aren't really looking for playmakers at this time. I personally would really like Dan Conner at 2a (should last this )or 2b (probably won't last this long).

Well, ur contradicting what the "experts" say. They say that "vision" and "accuracy" are actually Matt Ryan's "strong" points.

And a unanimous consensus have Matt Ryan a franchise material, top 5 QB. Beck was a unanimous consensue of "not" being a franchise QB and all but a 2nd round pick at most.
 
Well, ur contradicting what the "experts" say. They say that "vision" and "accuracy" are actually Matt Ryan's "strong" points.

And a unanimous consensus have Matt Ryan a franchise material, top 5 QB. Beck was a unanimous consensue of "not" being a franchise QB and all but a 2nd round pick at most.

there is no unanimous opinion of Matt Ryan being a franchise QB. The unanimous opinoon on him is he's the top QB in a weak QB draft.
 
there is no unanimous opinion of Matt Ryan being a franchise QB. The unanimous opinoon on him is he's the top QB in a weak QB draft.
The unanimous opinion is its actually a good QB class. Not great but good. A weak draft class is one like the Alex Smih one. This one is far better
 
Well, ur contradicting what the "experts" say. They say that "vision" and "accuracy" are actually Matt Ryan's "strong" points.

And a unanimous consensus have Matt Ryan a franchise material, top 5 QB. Beck was a unanimous consensue of "not" being a franchise QB and all but a 2nd round pick at most.

First there is nowhere near a unanimous opinion on Matt Ryan being franchise or top 5 QB. There are several reports that Ryan is not even the top QB on many team's boards.

I feel very comfortable contradicting the scattered experts that think Matt Ryan has good accuracy. I was called contradictory when I said the same thing about Harrington and was eventually vindicated. And just to reiterate I didn't say Ryan had horrible accuracy I just said it was not as good as Beck's (and not worthy of a top 5 pick).
 
After watching Matt Ryan play several times, I am comfortable saying his accuracy is on level with John Beck's. It's hard to imagine unless you've been exposed to SEVERAL Boston College games...but his supporting cast in the WR department really was garbage. Ryan's deep accuracy is actually something to behold.
 
After watching Matt Ryan play several times, I am comfortable saying his accuracy is on level with John Beck's. It's hard to imagine unless you've been exposed to SEVERAL Boston College games...but his supporting cast in the WR department really was garbage. Ryan's deep accuracy is actually something to behold.

In the games I saw his crossing patterns in particular always seemed a step behind. Not horribly so where the receiver had no chance but rather where it just made it a harder catch. These are the types of passes where even though you can say the receiver should/could have caught it the reality is that fewer of those get caught. This results in a lower comp. %, more ints and a lower YPA b/c the receiver would not get the ball in stride. An extreme example of this was Harrington. He threw so many back shoulder passes that his numbers suffered. His supporters would always say it was the receiver's fault. Also I never saw Ryan throw those passes that seem to be purposely away from the defender. The kind where at first glance you think that it was a poor pass but when they show you the end zone cam you realize that it was the safest placement. In Ryan I saw a QB who had ok accuracy but was nothing special.

Beck on the other hand regularly puts the ball on the front side of the body and throws away from the defender. I was amazed when I watched him in college. In the preseason video by Crunch there were some incredible passes. The last two in particular were better than any I've ever seen Ryan throw. In the Cincy game last year you could see flashes of how perfectly accurate he can be. There was a deep crossing pattern dropped in perfectly over the LBs, the TD in the back corner to Hagan thrown on the run, the fade to Hagan for the last TD and even the little flairs to Booker. These are passes that many NFL QBs struggle placing on the right side of the body that Beck seems to do naturally. Sure Beck is still adjusting to the speed of the game and generally knowing what to do but when he has time you see incredible accuracy. IMO Beck will eventually be recognized as one of the most accurate QBs in the NFL. Ryan may end up being successful but it won't but it won't be on the strength of his accuracy.
 
Has there been any draft strategy discussions within VIP? Kdawg954 makes an interesting observation within the "Why We should select Jake Long" thread. Essentially, choosing anyone but Jake Long forces BP and Ireland to be reactive instead of proactive.

 
After watching Matt Ryan play several times, I am comfortable saying his accuracy is on level with John Beck's. It's hard to imagine unless you've been exposed to SEVERAL Boston College games...but his supporting cast in the WR department really was garbage. Ryan's deep accuracy is actually something to behold.

I agree that his supporting WR were bad...garbage is pretty strong though. Also agree that Ryan's deep balls are quite accurate. However, in my opinion, all his throws, short, intermediate to long are more accurate than Beck's.
 
In the games I saw his crossing patterns in particular always seemed a step behind. Not horribly so where the receiver had no chance but rather where it just made it a harder catch. These are the types of passes where even though you can say the receiver should/could have caught it the reality is that fewer of those get caught. This results in a lower comp. %, more ints and a lower YPA b/c the receiver would not get the ball in stride. An extreme example of this was Harrington. He threw so many back shoulder passes that his numbers suffered. His supporters would always say it was the receiver's fault. Also I never saw Ryan throw those passes that seem to be purposely away from the defender. The kind where at first glance you think that it was a poor pass but when they show you the end zone cam you realize that it was the safest placement. In Ryan I saw a QB who had ok accuracy but was nothing special.

Beck on the other hand regularly puts the ball on the front side of the body and throws away from the defender. I was amazed when I watched him in college. In the preseason video by Crunch there were some incredible passes. The last two in particular were better than any I've ever seen Ryan throw. In the Cincy game last year you could see flashes of how perfectly accurate he can be. There was a deep crossing pattern dropped in perfectly over the LBs, the TD in the back corner to Hagan thrown on the run, the fade to Hagan for the last TD and even the little flairs to Booker. These are passes that many NFL QBs struggle placing on the right side of the body that Beck seems to do naturally. Sure Beck is still adjusting to the speed of the game and generally knowing what to do but when he has time you see incredible accuracy. IMO Beck will eventually be recognized as one of the most accurate QBs in the NFL. Ryan may end up being successful but it won't but it won't be on the strength of his accuracy.
Actually Ryan is one of the better QBs Ive seen in terms of knowing where to place the ball. I know CK just reviewed the Michigan State game and there was a great example of it in that game though its so long ago I barely remember it. I think it was a 3rd and 7 or 10 and Ryan through a pass over the middle (I believe) while his receiver was covered by two defenders. The thing is Ryan threw it about 6 inches off the ground right at the receivers feet in a spot where only the receiver could make the play. The receiver ended up dropping the pass but that type of placement is what I saw in most of the games I watched. CK makes a good point about how you really have to see alot of his games to get a sense of what type of QB he is because there were games when he didnt look that great. I saw 7 this past year so I feel I have a pretty good idea of his entire game. If you only saw the Virginia Tech or Florida State games you would probably think he's a good QB but you wouldnt get the full sense of how good

Now that's not to say that he should be picked number 1. I may feel that way but its perfectly reasonable to differ but noone would be posting he should go in the bottom of the first if they had seen all his games
 
Actually Ryan is one of the better QBs Ive seen in terms of knowing where to place the ball. I know CK just reviewed the Michigan State game and there was a great example of it in that game though its so long ago I barely remember it. I think it was a 3rd and 7 or 10 and Ryan through a pass over the middle (I believe) while his receiver was covered by two defenders. The thing is Ryan threw it about 6 inches off the ground right at the receivers feet in a spot where only the receiver could make the play. The receiver ended up dropping the pass but that type of placement is what I saw in most of the games I watched. CK makes a good point about how you really have to see alot of his games to get a sense of what type of QB he is because there were games when he didnt look that great. I saw 7 this past year so I feel I have a pretty good idea of his entire game. If you only saw the Virginia Tech or Florida State games you would probably think he's a good QB but you wouldnt get the full sense of how good

Now that's not to say that he should be picked number 1. I may feel that way but its perfectly reasonable to differ but noone would be posting he should go in the bottom of the first if they had seen all his games

Ryan can make ridicules throws sometimes. Rolling left, throwing off his back foot down the middle was amazing. picturing him doing that in a fins uniform would be better. :lol:
 
Actually Ryan is one of the better QBs Ive seen in terms of knowing where to place the ball. I know CK just reviewed the Michigan State game and there was a great example of it in that game though its so long ago I barely remember it. I think it was a 3rd and 7 or 10 and Ryan through a pass over the middle (I believe) while his receiver was covered by two defenders. The thing is Ryan threw it about 6 inches off the ground right at the receivers feet in a spot where only the receiver could make the play. The receiver ended up dropping the pass but that type of placement is what I saw in most of the games I watched. CK makes a good point about how you really have to see alot of his games to get a sense of what type of QB he is because there were games when he didnt look that great. I saw 7 this past year so I feel I have a pretty good idea of his entire game. If you only saw the Virginia Tech or Florida State games you would probably think he's a good QB but you wouldnt get the full sense of how good

Now that's not to say that he should be picked number 1. I may feel that way but its perfectly reasonable to differ but noone would be posting he should go in the bottom of the first if they had seen all his games

I haven't seen all his games. I've seen 3 full games and parts of others. But I've been doing this a long time and in my experience you don't need to see that many games to analyze a QB. A QB's skill set and performance shouldn't fluctuate that much otherwise that inconsistency is a red flag in itself. Sure everybody has bad games but the skill set should be evident regardless. This is not an unheard of premise. I remember Bill Walsh believed that you could analyze a QB just by watching one practice. I feel comfortable 3 games is more than sufficient to come to a reasonable evaluation on any QB. My conclusion is that he is a middle to late first round prospect. This is also about where I had Beck rated. I don't believe that Ryan has a greater chance of success than Beck. In fact, I think Beck's chance of success is greater than Ryan's. Ryan's accuracy is not on Beck's level. He throws risky passes that rely on his arm strength which is only ok. This resulted in too many ints at the college level and could result in even more in the pros. He also gets panicky under pressure (you may remember a similar conclusion from Dolfanmike's report from an opponent's defensive coach) and doesn't display the anticipation that Beck displays. I find these factors much more predictive of NFL success than the areas where Ryan has an advantage over Beck (height and pocket feel).
 
Actually Ryan is one of the better QBs Ive seen in terms of knowing where to place the ball. I know CK just reviewed the Michigan State game and there was a great example of it in that game though its so long ago I barely remember it. I think it was a 3rd and 7 or 10 and Ryan through a pass over the middle (I believe) while his receiver was covered by two defenders. The thing is Ryan threw it about 6 inches off the ground right at the receivers feet in a spot where only the receiver could make the play. The receiver ended up dropping the pass but that type of placement is what I saw in most of the games I watched. CK makes a good point about how you really have to see alot of his games to get a sense of what type of QB he is because there were games when he didnt look that great. I saw 7 this past year so I feel I have a pretty good idea of his entire game. If you only saw the Virginia Tech or Florida State games you would probably think he's a good QB but you wouldnt get the full sense of how good

Now that's not to say that he should be picked number 1. I may feel that way but its perfectly reasonable to differ but noone would be posting he should go in the bottom of the first if they had seen all his games

AP,
We might disagree on what we should with the top overall pick and on our opinions of Matt Ryan, but at least when you try to make a point it is based on your opinion and you stated as that. You bring a good amount of thought to your posts and try to see both perspectives of an argument and that has to be commended especially in the debate of using the #1 overall on Ryan:up:
 
Well, ur contradicting what the "experts" say. They say that "vision" and "accuracy" are actually Matt Ryan's "strong" points.

And a unanimous consensus have Matt Ryan a franchise material, top 5 QB. Beck was a unanimous consensue of "not" being a franchise QB and all but a 2nd round pick at most.[/quote]

Please see my post to AP!!!! He will argue for Matt Ryan, but he's not constantly making items up and calling them facts as you have constantly done in this debate over Ryan or Beck. Once again you make a statement on all of the experts opinions on Beck or Ryan for that matter and you call them facts. Facts are 1st hand knowledge which you have nothing of. Please if you are going to make an argument for a player that's fine and I'm completely down with that, but labeling your opinion as fact makes all of your arguments seem overly bias and pointless.

An example of good argument for Matt Ryan would follows as:

I think Ryan is worth the number 1 pick because he shows up during pressure situations during the 4th qtr and doesn't get rattled. He seems to have a knack for the 4th quarter comeback like many greats have shown. He has also showed the ability to lead in those situations and it appears that his team remained calm in those situations because of his leadership abilities!

Please take notice that I didn't have to state all of the experts said this about him or all of the experts say Beck is garbage or whatever your term of the day is for him. It really isn't a difficult thing to do to state your opinion objectively!
 
We haven`t used a first day pick on a QB in a LOOONG time, before last year, and we are ready to give up on him after 3 games and select another? Let`s protect last year`s investment, and build a Fort of an Oline for Ronnie, Beck, and Co. to have a chance to thrive
 
I can't believe they would dare pick a QB with the state of the team, without an OL you can't win. Look at the QBs in the playoffs where they that good or their OL was the difference.
The defeated Pats Brady looked very pedestrian without protection.
 
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