I'd like to see Tua here... (rookie mini camp)

[Soxfinatic]

No I haven't.

You're arguing against people putting him on a pedestal because you don't like him. If it were a player you did like, you'd be joining in on the excitement. You can't stand people being excited over him because he didn't meet your personal expectations a year removed from hip surgery.


And your dismissal of people's rebuttals as 'excuses' doesn't make your opinion any more (or less) accurate.

I've never said I don't like him. I've said several times that he seems like a genuine kid that I want to succeed. Not liking his game is totally different. I'm saying I don't understand the excitement. Why am I putting someone unproven on a pedestal? The difference is I'm realistic and you hate it.

 

[TrinidadDolfan]

Uh, everyone has this great notion that him working hard this offseason is some big thing. He should be working to get bigger and stronger. That's his job. Why does everyone think his grand offseason workout regimen is something out of the ordinary?

I came up with a full and comprehensive list of all the positive things you have contributed:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

Hope I didn’t miss anything.

 

[Vaark]

But that's a team fact, not an individual one.

Some of the concerns are legitimate.

We all hope he can put those concerns to rest this season.

Having an offseason to concentrate on football, rather than his hip, coupled with a real preseason being the #1 should make a huge impact.

But if Tua went 3-6, would that same "its a team game" excuse exonerate him?

 

[TrinidadDolfan]

1. He's small for an NFL QB - Fact

2. His arm is average for an NFL QB - By all scouting and film accounts - Fact

3. He has limited mobility - Fact

4. QBR - 52.5 - Fact - #26 in football, Fitz 76.9 - #5 in football - Fact

5. Net yards per pass attempt - #28 - Fact

6. Net yards gained per pass attempt #30 - Fact

7. 181 yards per game - #33 - Fact

8. 9.8 yards per completion - #31 - Fact

9. TD% - 3.8 - #23 - Fact

10. Sack% - #22 - Fact

You can bring up opinion all you want.

I'm not making this up. This is not an opinion. These are facts.

If you were the GM we would have drafted Brady Quinn - Fact.

Your credibility is non-existent.

 

[Mach2]

But if Tua went 3-6, would that same "its a team game" excuse exonerate him?

Depends if the person you ask has an agenda, or is irrational.

An example of why record is not, necessarily, a good metric of QB play would be Watson.

Whatever you think of his personal situation, he is a top QB, yet the team's record was bad.

You know better, so I was surprised you even used that in a debate. If you were some wingnut job, I probably wouldn't have bothered pointing out that team record can be very misleading.

 

[Soxfinatic]

Herbert definitely surpassed expectations in 2020 but I bet year 2 will be different for both QBs

Certainly considering it was one of the finest rookie seasons statistically ever.

 

[Soxfinatic]

6-3 as a rookie coming off a debilitating hip injury and no preseason: FACT

Was he? I'm quite certain Fitz won us the game against the Raiders. How many of those games do we win running away with Fitz? Come on.

 

[Vaark]

Was he? I'm quite certain Fitz won us the game against the Raiders. How many of those games do we win running away with Fitz? Come on.

So I see you were gone from FH for 11years but drifted back in about 6 mos ago. Why weren't we good enough for you not to go elsewhere and are you only now back because your preferred forum got tired of your Tua bashing?

 

[The Goat]

1. He's small for an NFL QB - Fact

2. His arm is average for an NFL QB - By all scouting and film accounts - Fact

3. He has limited mobility - Fact

4. QBR - 52.5 - Fact - #26 in football, Fitz 76.9 - #5 in football - Fact

5. Net yards per pass attempt - #28 - Fact

6. Net yards gained per pass attempt #30 - Fact

7. 181 yards per game - #33 - Fact

8. 9.8 yards per completion - #31 - Fact

9. TD% - 3.8 - #23 - Fact

10. Sack% - #22 - Fact

You can bring up opinion all you want.

I'm not making this up. This is not an opinion. These are facts.

You pretty clearly don’t know what facts are. For example, 2 and 3 simply are not facts. You are using your eyes to come to the conclusion that he has limited mobility. In other words...it’s your opinion.

I, in the mean time, can look at the Arizona game and come to the conclusion that you were using hallucinogens when you came to your conclusion. That would be my opinion.

Here’s what’s known as “hearsay.” It has been attributed to more than one player that Chan Gailey used a different set of plays for Tua than he did for Fitz. Was it justifiable? Probably. Fitz had played under that system and playbook far longer than Tua.

But did that directly influence those stats you just gave? It sure as hell did.

You know, in my opinion.

But here’s another fact: Tua doesn’t have to justify or prove himself to anyone on this board. The only people he has to prove himself to are Flores, Grier and Ross.

If he doesn’t, he’ll be gone sooner than later. But let’s not pretend that either of us knows any better than anyone else how this is gonna turn out.

 

[Vaark]

Depends if the person you ask has an agenda, or is irrational.

An example of why record is not, necessarily, a good metric of QB play would be Watson.

Whatever you think of his personal situation, he is a top QB, yet the team's record was bad.

You know better, so I was surprised you even used that in a debate. If you were some wingnut job, I probably wouldn't have bothered pointing out that team record can be very misleading.

But like Parcels is wont to say: "Scoreboard". Clayton Kershaw has others finish for him but that doesn't negate that he's a winner.

Point taken about Watson although as a misogynistic sexual predator he could have gone undefeated and still be an undesirable!

 

[Soxfinatic]

If you were the GM we would have drafted Brady Quinn - Fact.

Your credibility is non-existent.

As I said, when I'm wrong, I admit it. I was wrong. However, everyone on this board was pissed about that. I'm certain I'm far more credible you...stick to soccer. Thanks for going back 12 years to find my mistake haha. Again, it totally cracks me up that not one of you has presented any facts, only excuses as to why he was terrible. I bring you logical arguments that are based on statistical fact, and you got nothing but "wah, you hate Tua". No, I don't!

You cannot argue metrics, they are fact. If/when he proves me wrong, I'll be the first to admit it but you guys are on cloud nine of excitement for an average QB. I'm sorry you feel that I'm spoiling your party but boohoo. He needs to prove it cuz he was brutal last year and one decent game doesn't excite me. I can get that from any rookie.

Some on here show logic and tell it like it is but most of you are so hypnotized by Tua, it's laughable. At least be mesmerized by a great prospect, like Andrew Luck. That's exciting...Kyler Murray is exciting. You all are mesmerized by an average old pocket passer that really brings no excitement to the table. That's like going to the ballpark and being excited to see Barry Zito instead of Randy Johnson. It's fine but not going to have the same value for your team.

 

[Mach2]

But like Parcels is wont to say: "Scoreboard". Clayton Kershaw has others finish for him but that doesn't negate that he's a winner.

Point taken about Watson although as a misogynistic sexual predator he could have gone undefeated and still be an undesirable!

Now you're being silly again...lol.

If/when Tua puts up Kershaw type numbers, relative to sport, he isn't getting pulled for a closer.

 

[1972forever]

U know why it big deal because lot fans ain't sure of Tua.. it is not anti-Tua thread. That what we as dolphins fan got understand..it up to Tua not us..he dont have to go to 3 day rookie camp..we all understand that.

If as you state, he doesn’t have to go to a 3 day rookie camp. Exactly what is the big deal if he doesn’t show up? The fans not sure of Tua really don’t matter at all. As long as Flores and the coaching staff as well as the players have confidence in Tua is all that matters.

 

[rent this space]

As I said, when I'm wrong, I admit it. I was wrong. However, everyone on this board was pissed about that. I'm certain I'm far more credible you...stick to soccer. Thanks for going back 12 years to find my mistake haha. Again, it totally cracks me up that not one of you has presented any facts, only excuses as to why he was terrible. I bring you logical arguments that are based on statistical fact, and you got nothing but "wah, you hate Tua". No, I don't!

You cannot argue metrics, they are fact. If/when he proves me wrong, I'll be the first to admit it but you guys are on cloud nine of excitement for an average QB. I'm sorry you feel that I'm spoiling your party but boohoo. He needs to prove it cuz he was brutal last year and one decent game doesn't excite me. I can get that from any rookie.

Some on here show logic and tell it like it is but most of you are so hypnotized by Tua, it's laughable. At least be mesmerized by a great prospect, like Andrew Luck. That's exciting...Kyler Murray is exciting. You all are mesmerized by an average old pocket passer that really brings no excitement to the table. That's like going to the ballpark and being excited to see Barry Zito instead of Randy Johnson. It's fine but not going to have the same value for your team.

as opposed to "facts" like:
holds ball too long (opinion)
not a NFL arm (opinion)
can't read defenses (opinion)
too small (opinion)

 

[The Goat]

As I said, when I'm wrong, I admit it. I was wrong. However, everyone on this board was pissed about that. I'm certain I'm far more credible you...stick to soccer. Thanks for going back 12 years to find my mistake haha. Again, it totally cracks me up that not one of you has presented any facts, only excuses as to why he was terrible. I bring you logical arguments that are based on statistical fact, and you got nothing but "wah, you hate Tua". No, I don't!

You cannot argue metrics, they are fact. If/when he proves me wrong, I'll be the first to admit it but you guys are on cloud nine of excitement for an average QB. I'm sorry you feel that I'm spoiling your party but boohoo. He needs to prove it cuz he was brutal last year and one decent game doesn't excite me. I can get that from any rookie.

Some on here show logic and tell it like it is but most of you are so hypnotized by Tua, it's laughable. At least be mesmerized by a great prospect, like Andrew Luck. That's exciting...Kyler Murray is exciting. You all are mesmerized by an average old pocket passer that really brings no excitement to the table. That's like going to the ballpark and being excited to see Barry Zito instead of Randy Johnson. It's fine but not going to have the same value for your team.