If Miami Is Bad Enough To Get The First Overall Pick In The 2020 Draft...

Should Flores be kept if Miami has the worst record in the NFL?

  • Yes

    Votes: 136 90.1%
  • No

    Votes: 15 9.9%

  • Total voters
    151

13marino13

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Are Dieter and Cox headed for a backup role?... 3 starters in a draft doesn't suck and before anyone points out the lack of "impact" players drafted … we had holes that needed filling AND a have a new scheme on offense and defense that needs to be addressed....

Some of you need to give Grier a break and see what this new staff can do.... we have no idea, really, how much influence he had with the last ego filled drug addicted, hooker chasing staff …. it's crazy how the "leadership" of a team can be so out of touch at this level …. Grier may have been doing exactly what the people around him said they wanted … from what I read from some of you it's like Grier has the final regardless of what the actual coaches want on the field

Does it go something like this?...Head Coach: Hey Grier we need a QB and I want Mahomes…. Grier: Mahomes is going to cost us a 3rd and next years #1 so we will go with Charles Harris you just coach what I give you
I wish I coulda landed a spot on that staff... :woot:
 

NCFINFAN13

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Yes. Unless there's a complete lack of leadership by the staff. Flores is in a tough situation and we'll see his metal, or lack there of.
 

Rowdy1972

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There will be no firing (of the coaching staff) based on this season. The roster is too bereft at the most important positions.

However the chances are that if the Dolphins are bad enough this year to claim the #1 overall pick, then the Flores staff may ultimately be doomed.

History is not with coaches who lead their team to 2-14 records, in an NFL marked by parity, injuries, poor road teams, etc. This is just a historical fact. You can't predict the future exclusively based on the past but the past is a pretty powerful teacher.

Some mitigating factors in all this are a series of maneuvers that seem to only be justifiable if you truly don't care about winning year one, which means that circumstances with this team may be slightly different than all those other teams that went 2-14 or 1-15 or 0-16 over the years.

For example, I noted that Bobby McCain playing free safety is a good way to have your defense play solid football on 75 of 80 snaps during the game, but still have the opponent ring up a 30 points, because you trusted a 5'9" career slot corner who ranked #96 of 133 at his position last year in missed tackle efficiency to be a last line of defense against the big pass and big run. This is something you probably don't do if you really are putting pressure to win football games in 2019. But because you don't care, you're afforded the ability to say, **** it why not.

I have noticed you mention such things as " if they don't care about winning this year" in multiple posts. You got my attention. Im a believer in that the QB of the future is definitely not on the team right now. I think the team knows this. It goes back to my theory that the Rosen trade although "good value" didnt make much sense. They should have gone oline in the first round or at least gotten more competence on the oline. Hes coming into a situation almost the exact same where he looked like dog ***. They didnt do him any favors with how they did the offseason. Think that trade was more window washing than anything with a small chance at success. You are giving me hope because I think you have some inside info you dont want to fully disclose haha

Basically this is a throw away year in my mind. We need to get our QB of the future in next years draft. Do whatever you have to do to position yourself for the future. If it means Flores is gone so be it. Im looking for a QB thats gonna be here for the next 10-15 years. The average tenure of a HC is like 2 years. Having to fire a HC to get the right QB doesnt bother me in the least.
 
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ckparrothead

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I have noticed you mention such things as " if they don't care about winning this year" in multiple posts. You got my attention. Im a believer in that the QB of the future is definitely not on the team right now. I think the team knows this. It goes back to my theory that the Rosen trade although "good value" didnt make much sense. They should have gone oline in the first round or at least gotten more competence on the oline. Hes coming into a situation almost the exact same where he looked like dog ***. They didnt do him any favors with how they did the offseason. Think that trade was more window washing than anything with a small chance at success. You are giving me hope because I think you have some inside info you dont want to fully disclose haha

Basically this is a throw away year in my mind. We need to get our QB of the future in next years draft. Do whatever you have to do to position yourself for the future. If it means Flores is gone so be it. Im looking for a QB thats gonna be here for the next 10-15 years. The average tenure of a HC is like 2 years. Having to fire a HC to get the right QB doesnt bother me in the least.
I mean it's pretty simple. The owner stated it flat out, right at the beginning, they're taking a step back in order to take a step forward. That's why Flores got a longer than usual deal. Chris Grier even let himself slip a little bit during draft run-up, when he was talking about how they have extra picks in 2020 in order to give them the flexibility to move up for a quarterback if they need to. He said something along the lines of, "We could even be as high as 8-8 and still have the flexibility we need."

That told me everything I needed to know about their mindset.

But they keep hammering that point home over and over in other ways.
  • They converted present cap space into future draft picks (e.g. Ryan Tannehill, Robert Quinn).
  • They rank #9 in the NFL with $23.7 million in 2019 cap space, and they have no intention of using it. They will be rolling it forward into future years.
  • But even that #9 ranking is deceiving because they have been flushing salary cap accruals onto the 2019 balance sheet in order to INFLATE their cap number. In actuality, they have the lowest cash payroll in the NFL.
It's just pretty damn clear what they're doing. There are a lot of things they'd be doing if they cared at all about wins in 2019, but they don't. There are things they've done that you probably can't justify if you care about wins in 2019.

Most teams keep their eyes on the present AND the future. Right now the Dolphins are strictly about the future.
 

Rowdy1972

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I mean it's pretty simple. The owner stated it flat out, right at the beginning, they're taking a step back in order to take a step forward. That's why Flores got a longer than usual deal. Chris Grier even let himself slip a little bit during draft run-up, when he was talking about how they have extra picks in 2020 in order to give them the flexibility to move up for a quarterback if they need to. He said something along the lines of, "We could even be as high as 8-8 and still have the flexibility we need."

That told me everything I needed to know about their mindset.

But they keep hammering that point home over and over in other ways.
  • They converted present cap space into future draft picks (e.g. Ryan Tannehill, Robert Quinn).
  • They rank #9 in the NFL with $23.7 million in 2019 cap space, and they have no intention of using it. They will be rolling it forward into future years.
  • But even that #9 ranking is deceiving because they have been flushing salary cap accruals onto the 2019 balance sheet in order to INFLATE their cap number. In actuality, they have the lowest cash payroll in the NFL.
It's just pretty damn clear what they're doing. There are a lot of things they'd be doing if they cared at all about wins in 2019, but they don't. There are things they've done that you probably can't justify if you care about wins in 2019.

Most teams keep their eyes on the present AND the future. Right now the Dolphins are strictly about the future.

Really good information in here. Appreciate it.
 

TedSlimmJr

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I have noticed you mention such things as " if they don't care about winning this year" in multiple posts. You got my attention. Im a believer in that the QB of the future is definitely not on the team right now. I think the team knows this. It goes back to my theory that the Rosen trade although "good value" didnt make much sense. They should have gone oline in the first round or at least gotten more competence on the oline. Hes coming into a situation almost the exact same where he looked like dog ***. They didnt do him any favors with how they did the offseason. Think that trade was more window washing than anything with a small chance at success. You are giving me hope because I think you have some inside info you dont want to fully disclose haha

Basically this is a throw away year in my mind. We need to get our QB of the future in next years draft. Do whatever you have to do to position yourself for the future. If it means Flores is gone so be it. Im looking for a QB thats gonna be here for the next 10-15 years. The average tenure of a HC is like 2 years. Having to fire a HC to get the right QB doesnt bother me in the least.

I tend to agree with you, and I've always believed CK is on the right path when he keeps mentioning it. They didn't come in and get rid of the starting QB, right tackle, Cam Wake, and all their pass rushers aside from one guy who can't sack the quarterback, and stockpile future draft picks with the idea they're going to win games in their first year.

I think they understand what the process needs to be in order to build something.

The entire premise of this thread is typical fan thinking. Which is the wrong way to look at it. You don't make your assessment based off what their win/loss record is during their first year. You make your assessment of whether they're worth keeping or not based on the plan they have, and how they're able to execute it. The poll results here speaks to how well most people here get it.

If their plan was to set themselves up with assets in order to acquire their franchise quarterback to build around when the time is right, and build the lines and foundation of the defense in the meantime - that's your first sign they're worth keeping. Next will be how well they do at implementing the plan. Not how many games they win this year.

If the plan was to simply come in here and try to win 7 games instead of 4 as soon as possible - as has been the case with the past 3 or 4 regime hires - Dolphin fans might as well find something else to do with their Sundays. They're not going to like what the end result is.

How soon they're able to see and admit mistakes and move on from them is the key.

You all actually have a chance to like what the end result is here in my opinion. But it is a process. The players and front office people all must be focused on the process, and what it takes to be a better organization, instead of being focused on short term results. Sticking to the process is what will achieve the desired results. Choosing to focus on results and wishing harder will not.
 
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fin415

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.... It goes back to my theory that the Rosen trade although "good value" didn't make much sense. .
It's really very simple and a good decision. It's a relatively cheap shot at a franchise QB based on the belief that you never know what you have until you actually have it. Even if we land the 1 pick next year, we're still not guaranteed we'll have our guy, just that the odds are better than picking someone in the 3rd.

So keep finding ways to test as many players as we can until we get "our" guy. Taking a cheap flier on a guy who has enough talent to be drafted high in the first, and barring a complete meltdown that suggests he shouldn't be in the NFL, at worst leaves you with a quality backup or good trade bait and seems like the epitomy of good GM'ing.
 

Rowdy1972

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It's really very simple and a good decision. It's a relatively cheap shot at a franchise QB based on the belief that you never know what you have until you actually have it. Even if we land the 1 pick next year, we're still not guaranteed we'll have our guy, just that the odds are better than picking someone in the 3rd.

So keep finding ways to test as many players as we can until we get "our" guy. Taking a cheap flier on a guy who has enough talent to be drafted high in the first, and barring a complete meltdown that suggests he shouldn't be in the NFL, at worst leaves you with a quality backup or good trade bait and seems like the epitomy of good GM'ing.
Hence why I said "good value". The front office doesn't seem very committed to him is what I'm saying. They sure didnt help him any on the oline acquisitions or lack there of. I think it was more window dressing the "tank" narrative with an outside chance he actually succeeds.
 

Mach2

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Hence why I said "good value". The front office doesn't seem very committed to him is what I'm saying. They sure didnt help him any on the oline acquisitions or lack there of. I think it was more window dressing the "tank" narrative with an outside chance he actually succeeds.
I don't believe anybody ever thought they were "committing" to him.

The benifit/risk ratio is why the move made sense.

Just to throw out a number, say you believe there is a 33% chance Rosen ends up being "the guy". The odds may not be in your favor, but if you hit the long shot, the future of the franchise, given the fact that you now don't need to trade away multiple high picks, turns on moving back a few 2nd round draft spots.

Thats a pretty good risk/reward gamble IMO.
 

Rowdy1972

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I don't believe anybody ever thought they were "committing" to him.

The benifit/risk ratio is why the move made sense.

Just to throw out a number, say you believe there is a 33% chance Rosen ends up being "the guy". The odds may not be in your favor, but if you hit the long shot, the future of the franchise, given the fact that you now don't need to trade away multiple high picks, turns on moving back a few 2nd round draft spots.

Thats a pretty good risk/reward gamble IMO.
I mean that could have helped the dude a little more than releasing away our second best Olineman and filling the OL holes with more unknowns. Its kind of like they know he's destined for a backup role. All the circumstances around the trade seem like a great "well see we tried" excuse when being questioned about the real motive of this coming season after we start 1-9.
 

Mach2

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I mean that could have helped the dude a little more than releasing away our second best Olineman and filling the OL holes with more unknowns. Its kind of like they know he's destined for a backup role. All the circumstances around the trade seem like a great "well see we tried" excuse when being questioned about the real motive of this coming season after we start 1-9.
That is one way to look at it, I suppose.

I have a hard time believing the whole exercise was for the sole purpose of aquiring a preemptive scapegoat.

One thing I'm sure of is that had we payed James the kind of jack Denver did there would be more irate fan's head's exploding than if Rosen doesn't work out, and I would be the first one with a pitchfork.

I don't see the two moves related in any way.
 

ckparrothead

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I don't believe anybody ever thought they were "committing" to him.

The benifit/risk ratio is why the move made sense.

Just to throw out a number, say you believe there is a 33% chance Rosen ends up being "the guy". The odds may not be in your favor, but if you hit the long shot, the future of the franchise, given the fact that you now don't need to trade away multiple high picks, turns on moving back a few 2nd round draft spots.

Thats a pretty good risk/reward gamble IMO.
Details matter.

Is it 33%?

Because in actuality it's more like 5%.
 

ckparrothead

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That is one way to look at it, I suppose.

I have a hard time believing the whole exercise was for the sole purpose of aquiring a preemptive scapegoat.

One thing I'm sure of is that had we payed James the kind of jack Denver did there would be more irate fan's head's exploding than if Rosen doesn't work out, and I would be the first one with a pitchfork.

I don't see the two moves related in any way.
It's not that the moves are related, it's that they're in conflict.

They paid a premium for an investment asset while simultaneously minimizing the chance that asset could give them a clear signal about its true worth within the investment horizon.
 

Mach2

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It's not that the moves are related, it's that they're in conflict.

They paid a premium for an investment asset while simultaneously minimizing the chance that asset could give them a clear signal about its true worth within the investment horizon.
Well, We disagree on whether it was a good gamble then.

Different strokes, you know.

I'm sure we both ultimately want the same thing, a winning team.

Only time will tell.
 
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