If the Dolphins drafted Lamar Jackson, would he still be successful?

Ryan1973

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It is a very fair question and since virtually everybody agrees he wouldn’t succeed here because of the team, coaching, front office, etc...

What makes anybody think Tua or Burrow or ANYBODY would be successful here?

i mean, “Lamar, Lamar, he’s our man...
If he can’t do it (nobody/who-the-F) can?

(But I agree, Fins wouldn’t have gotten him to where he is - Harbaugh is a special coach)
Tua and Burrow seem to be more like traditional QB's that wouldn't require a specific offensive system to get the most out of them like Lamar Jackson does.
 

Ryan1973

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He is an awesome coach. Adjusting his team to get Lamar to mvp level shows this. He is way better coach than his bum brother.
I agree he is a great coach, but let's remember his team struggled with Flacco at QB for a few years. So without a good QB, even a great coach won't do good.
 

phins_4_ever

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"I have serious doubts the Dolphins would have and could have embraced similar significant changes to make Lamar Jackson work in Miami. And we’ll probably never know because no one in that Dolphins draft room suggested drafting him in 2018."

That last sentence is an unintentional indictment on Chris Grier. This 2020 offeason is going to be something.
I hate this crappy revisionist history. The 2018 draft came on the heels of Tannehill's lost season in 2017. He came back from injury and half the people wanted to draft to surround him with talent because they all were sure he will repeat his 2016 six game stretch and will lead us to the playoffs. If we would have drafted a QB with any pick in the first round these people would have gone ballistic.
And the Dolphins took drafting a QB off the board with the fact that Tannenbaum had just redone Tannehill's contract (and extended him to 2022) a month earlier. So don't give me that crap about "it is an indictment on Grier".
2018 was a planned "break or bust" year and that was with the blessing of Ross.

This kind of revisionist history can be applied to the 2017 draft as well. Why did we not trade up to get Mahomes? It would have cost us less than it did KC. Because we came of a playoff season and everybody was hoping Gase could turn Tannehill into that great franchise QB.

The hurdle of us drafting a QB in 2017 (Mahomes) and 2018 was Gase. Any other coach (i.e. Flores) would have said to Tannebaum "don't extend Ryan. Let us get competition and see how it plays out." Maybe then our draft room would have thought about drafting a QB.
But even in this case if we would have drafted Lamar Jackson at 11 everybody would have gone bananas and bitched to no end "why we would get a QB at 11 when we have Tannehill".
 

fansinceGWilson

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So did Baltimore initially. Everybody thought he was a second round project even Baltimore. Baltimore had the #22 pick and even traded down to #25 and selected a TE (Gesicki has more catches and yards in two years than Hurst :lol:) And then they took a chance and traded back up into the 1st round again (from Philadelphia) to the 32nd spot.
He was a project even going into the 2018 season as evident by him not being the starter and Baltimore staying with Flacco as long as they could.

To give the Ravens the label of "they had tremendous foresight and knew what they were doing" is a little overboard. Lamar Jackson looks to be a great QB but we all have to wait a couple years to before we put him on the Marino or any of the other greats pedestals. Right now he is the best out there and it looks like the Ravens got a great deal. But it also proves - again - that you do not need to tank to get your possible franchise QB.
It also proves great talent isn't 'obvious.'
 

phins_4_ever

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It also proves great talent isn't 'obvious.'
Yep, it also proves it requires the right system for any QB to have a chance to succeed. Jackson in a Flacco offense would look mediocre maybe slightly better. Brady (obvious no talent when he was drafted) outside the system he is in? Probably not as great. Aaron Rodgers in an option offense would not be the great Rodgers we have gotten to know over the years.
You have to give Harbaugh credit for completely changing what the Ravens did in forever to tailor the offense to Jackson.
Besides identifying talent the FO/coach have to make a decision if the QB fits the current system or is the team ready to make a change in basic offensive philosophies. That's why I can see the Dolphins not picking a QB this year (at least not in the first round). Flores may just want to establish a system first and get the surrounding talent to give a QB of their choosing a better chance to succeed.

The risk the Ravens are taking is that they make Jackson the absolute focal point of the offense. He is the offense. Yes, they do have a strong running game but I think it is more of a result of having Jackson in the line up. The guy is a passing and running thread. Opposing defenses (at least for this year) have their handful just containing him.
But if he goes down - the Ravens are in mega ****. Big time. Though Griffin III is the backup and some could say similar to Jackson I don't see him excel at any point anymore. He is damaged goods as far as I am concerned. Oh yeah, Griffin III was a #2 pick and is the best example how talent can be destroyed when not put in a position to succeed.
 

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No because our franchise has a long history of trying to change a player to what they believe is best. Not developing around the players strengths.
 

volk

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No way Jackson would have become successful in Miami. Jackson has really bloomed into an amazing player, but the required commitment and personnel to get him there is way beyond what Miami could have done. Furthermore, the situation for him is perfect in Baltimore, and they are likely the only team and coaching staff that could have made this work:

1. The Ravens have always been a physically dominant team. They play smash mouth football and have always emphasized the run. Miami hasn't had a running game since RW, and they haven't been a physically dominant team since the 70's.
2. The Dolphins have had poor coaching in search of players to fit their scheme, not the other way around.
3. No way the home of Marino retains Jackson after last season. He looked like he had never thrown the ball before and couldn't hit wide open receivers. He would have been benched or cut here.

I was not pro drafting Jackson because of his terrible arm at the time and the potential injuries that come to run heavy QB's. I was wrong about the talent there for sure. I still think he will have a short career once the NFL catches up, but it sure is fun to watch him play right now.
 

Dsteve

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No, my main fear is us drafting a quarterback and not working him into something above average.I would love to have a young serviceable, play making quarterback with a ridiculous defense.
So basically tannehill?
 

Dolph N.Fan

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Baltimore use a 1 3 formation quite a bit. I dont know another team in the league that can have 3 strong tight ends on the field at 1 time. There are having so much success right now due to being so unusual. I fully expect the league to eventually figure out a proper defense to it.
I’m sure New England will have it figured out come playoffs
 

LoneStarPhin

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Plain and simple our organization messed up big time in not drafting him. We missed out on the league future mvp. This one will hurt for years to come. This guy is a generational talent. Only one of those guys come along every generation....
oh please... these “generational” comments are so ridiculous. there are so few of these, yet so many hand out those comments like mint candies.

Generational? MAYBE Peyton Manning or Tom Brady (thoigh latter i think is more a product of his organization).

Marino. Favre. Thats about it for recent history.
 
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LoneStarPhin

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Fins4ever- Yeah, if we had just drafted Mahomes.... (well i for one said he’d be steal of the draft (before kc drafted him).

And if you remember 2018 very well- (at least my recollection) THill and fins were actually doing pretty well (despite Gase and his crappy offense and not using THill best) but injuries to OL , and everywhere else decimated the team. Including THill’s shoulder injury which was caused.....,drumroll please....by a crap OL mistake.

I said before that season that failure to develop OL depth would be the downfall- and it was..

And I’m sure if we didnt get Rosen a lot here would be wringing their hands over that too. But game changing qb’s are few and far between.
 
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Rick Cartman

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I hate this crappy revisionist history. The 2018 draft came on the heels of Tannehill's lost season in 2017. He came back from injury and half the people wanted to draft to surround him with talent because they all were sure he will repeat his 2016 six game stretch and will lead us to the playoffs. If we would have drafted a QB with any pick in the first round these people would have gone ballistic.
And the Dolphins took drafting a QB off the board with the fact that Tannenbaum had just redone Tannehill's contract (and extended him to 2022) a month earlier. So don't give me that crap about "it is an indictment on Grier".
2018 was a planned "break or bust" year and that was with the blessing of Ross.

This kind of revisionist history can be applied to the 2017 draft as well. Why did we not trade up to get Mahomes? It would have cost us less than it did KC. Because we came of a playoff season and everybody was hoping Gase could turn Tannehill into that great franchise QB.

The hurdle of us drafting a QB in 2017 (Mahomes) and 2018 was Gase. Any other coach (i.e. Flores) would have said to Tannebaum "don't extend Ryan. Let us get competition and see how it plays out." Maybe then our draft room would have thought about drafting a QB.
But even in this case if we would have drafted Lamar Jackson at 11 everybody would have gone bananas and bitched to no end "why we would get a QB at 11 when we have Tannehill".
Ironically you just revised history. There were plenty of people on this board and in the media who wanted a QB in 2018 after his asinine decision not to surgically repair his knee cost us 2017.

It's almost paradoxical we're seeing the Jeff Ireland defense applied to Grier's failures almost 10 years later.
 

SkapePhin

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I remember listening this past summer to NFL radio, long before the season started. They interviewed John Harbaugh who said "this kid is going to revolutionize the QB position in the NFL". I remember thinking, wow, what a smug and reaching comment that is. Well, kudos John, he's doing that. And I can promise you it's because Harbaugh built the entire offensive system around him - to maximize his strengths and minimize any weaknesses. Anyone here who thinks Gase, in all his arrogance, would have come close to that is literally not paying attention. Also, I'm one who was hoping we would NOT draft Lamar during that live draft. Probably a paradigm I had about athletic college QB's never pan out or stay healthy. I doubt many others were thinking differently, so stop with all of this "we passed up on him". So did a lot of other teams.
That would also be my concern for Lamar. It’s difficult for a QB who runs as much as he does to stay healthy for a prolonged career. The only one with any kind of longevity that I can recall was Michael Vick.
 
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