If Tua is the pick do you draft 2 QBs this year due to health?

[meatpardle]

Sure. His ankle sprain had him hobbled so he "elected" to have it done with the other option being to sit out until it healed or have it get worse. He has a massive injury he's recovering from now that could result in early onset arthritis as well as in an NFL setting could be re-injured. Pitta the former TE for Balt had a very similar hip injury and it got so bad he had to retire. Tua is young and their medical staff responded immediately so if he weren't an NFL QB, he could be fine for the rest of his life. But as an NFL QB, that injury could pop back up.

Does any of this mean Tua can't be the next Favre and be an iron man? No. However, to have a plan with another blue chip QB drafted this year or next as a backup plan instead of the typical Backup Bob who is inept is prudent and worthy of discussion. I want Tua to come in and be an Iron Man but is it realistic? No. He was often injured no matter how you choose to view it and he still is.

I think you're creating an argument, or replying to the wrong person. I haven't said anything in opposition to what you've said, in fact I've agreed that he has been injured often (how could you not?), so not sure why you're still pushing that line. My point was to be honest when trying to build a case against him and don't embellish the facts.

Unless your argument is that it's OK to lie about him and his injuries because it all means the same thing in the end and all make the same point, that's he's an injury prone QB, in which case I disagree, it's not OK to lie about it. As I said in my first post, if he's as risky and injury-prone as people want to make out, then why the need to embellish?

And if you want to pick out specifics:

Sure. His ankle sprain had him hobbled so he "elected" to have it done with the other option being to sit out until it healed or have it get worse.

Yes that's correct. There is a difference. It's not an argument about whether he was injured or not, it's about using the number of surgeries he 'had' to have against him. Be fair.

EDIT: I realise the apparent hypocrisy in accusing you of inventing an argument when here I am trying to debate the different between whether someone 'had' to have surgery or whether they chose to have it, I guess it's important to me when it's used to judge a person.

 

[Mach2]

Pitta had his best season after his injuries. He ended up retiring because the injury reoccurred multiple times. It's also a billion times more stressful on the body to play TE than QB, so that factors into the comparison.

A billion?

I trust you have research and data to back that up?

 

[Kamelion4291]

A billion?

I trust you have research and data to back that up?

0.997 billion, but I took some liberties and rounded up.

 

[Rev Kev]

That was their biggest mistake. They should have played Rosen after game #X and not only "tanked" the season, but truly seen what they had. They gave up way too easy. What if Rosen had caught fire? Then qb wouldn't have had to be addressed. Instead, Miami fails to "tank," and they are left with a qb that is very divisive.

And I agree, MIa won't be debating his ability to play limited games. Only we will lol. MIa will draft him if QB is their biggest needs AND he's their highest rated player

Welcome

 

[Mach2]

I think you're creating an argument, or replying to the wrong person. I haven't said anything in opposition to what you've said, in fact I've agreed that he has been injured often (how could you not?), so not sure why you're still pushing that line. My point was to be honest when trying to build a case against him and don't embellish the facts.

Unless your argument is that it's OK to lie about him and his injuries because it all means the same thing in the end and all make the same point, that's he's an injury prone QB, in which case I disagree, it's not OK to lie about it. As I said in my first post, if he's as risky and injury-prone as people want to make out, then why the need to embellish?

And if you want to pick out specifics:

Yes that's correct. There is a difference. It's not an argument about whether he was injured or not, it's about using the number of surgeries he 'had' to have against him. Be fair.

EDIT: I realise the apparent hypocrisy in accusing you of inventing an argument when here I am trying to debate the different between whether someone 'had' to have surgery or whether they chose to have it, I guess it's important to me when it's used to judge a person.

Honestly, to me it seems like a distinction, withou a difference.

I'm not sure what you mean by "judge the person". I assume he did what he thought was best for him. I don't blame him, but let's not pretend that it speaks to "character" either way.

 

[tazthenomad]

Sigh. This metaphor lol... wow.

Do you think Rosen sits at the facilities and does nothing? Truly? Are you that ignorant to what goes into NFL talent? Im geting sick of listening to a bunch of bitter armchair experts bash a 22-23 year old kid who is working his *** off. Why hasn't he played? Only Flores and co know that. If he were lazy and doing nothing, you really dont think we'd cut him?

If it's "so obvious" to you that you cant find a reasonable explanation for the actions of others, it's easy to assume they're stupid / dumb... but the real answer is 99.9% of the time - You Don't Have All The Information. None of us do. So stop bashing a kid.

I'm not a very big Rosen fan but I completely agree with your sentiment that it is tiresome to listen to people bash athletes and attribute laziness, bad character, etc. to them because they don't see the results they expect.

Sometimes it's true that lack of success is due to work ethic but fans seem to forget that it's HARD to get to even a backup NFL level. Hard work alone is no guarantee for success. Some just don't have the ability to succeed on the next level. It may be the circumstances they are in.

I've only seen or heard of a few athletes in the position that Rosen is in have work issues. More typically that happens after some level of success or acclaim is given ala Mr. "Can't Miss" Manziel.

 

[meatpardle]

Honestly, to me it seems like a distinction, withou a difference.

I'm not sure what you mean by "judge the person". I assume he did what he thought was best for him. I don't blame him, but let's not pretend that it speaks to "character" either way.

Judging as in judging Tua's injury status. Saying someone has had to have four surgeries sounds more serious than saying they've been injured four times. That's why it bugs me I guess.

 

[Krush]

You can't evaluate Rosen after playing parts of 2 games, Fitz knows his role will be the bench or retire or trade, with all of those draft picks this team will be younger, fix the o-line and use Rosen to start the season, Tua won't be ready until next year, O-line should be upgraded again so whomever the QB is won't have to visit the emergency room.

 

[Fin-Loco]

Judging as in judging Tua's injury status. Saying someone has had to have four surgeries sounds more serious than saying they've been injured four times. That's why it bugs me I guess.

It clearly bugs you. If he hadn't had those surgeries he would have seen substantial bench time and be even more "injured" in our opinion. He also would not have the stats that would support him to potentially go as high. I'm not framing it in a way that's untrue. He got hurt four times and had four procedures to fix what got hurt. So, we can go the delusion route and pretend that was just simple maintenance or we can call it what it is, he's fragile. Plenty of gas in my tank to help you accept it.

 

[Padfoot]

You can't evaluate Rosen after playing parts of 2 games, Fitz knows his role will be the bench or retire or trade, with all of those draft picks this team will be younger, fix the o-line and use Rosen to start the season, Tua won't be ready until next year, O-line should be upgraded again so whomever the QB is won't have to visit the emergency room.

You really think Flores would do that? Even in the year we were supposed to be tanking Flores started the guys he felt gave the team the best chance to win. Unless Fitz implodes or regresses, or Rosen suddenly elevates his play substantially, I can't see Flores suddenly playing Rosen to evaluate him. Flores has made is very clear, he's here to win games.

 

[Mach2]

You really think Flores would do that? Even in the year we were supposed to be tanking Flores started the guys he felt gave the team the best chance to win. Unless Fitz implodes or regresses, or Rosen suddenly elevates his play substantially, I can't see Flores suddenly playing Rosen to evaluate him. Flores has made is very clear, he's here to win games.

IDK what will happen with JR, but I don't think it is as straightforward as that.

Fitz may have been the best option, given the ineffective state of the. O-line.

That doesn't, necessarily, mean it would be the same with a competent O-line, and some semblance of a run game. Rosen's physical tools are no doubt better than Fitz's, at this stage of his career.

 

[Padfoot]

That was their biggest mistake. They should have played Rosen after game #X and not only "tanked" the season, but truly seen what they had. They gave up way too easy. What if Rosen had caught fire? Then qb wouldn't have had to be addressed. Instead, Miami fails to "tank," and they are left with a qb that is very divisive.

And I agree, MIa won't be debating his ability to play limited games. Only we will lol. MIa will draft him if QB is their biggest needs AND he's their highest rated player

Rosen could barely move the offense against three teams with a combined record of 16-32. He either doesn't have it or wasn't anywhere near ready. The odds of him catching fire were slim to none. But by going back to Fitz, the Phins were able to "see what they have" in Devante Parker and Mike Gesicki. This was a very important season for those two guys. Without it, they might not have been on the team next year.

 

[Padfoot]

IDK what will happen with JR, but I don't think it is as straightforward as that.

Fitz may have been the best option, given the ineffective state of the. O-line.

That doesn't, necessarily, mean it would be the same with a competent O-line, and some semblance of a run game. Rosen's physical tools are no doubt better than Fitz's, at this stage of his career.

I agree with that, but Rosen or whoever the #2 QB ends up being will have to win the job from Fitz in convincing fashion. Fitz is a leader and seems to have the players' support.

 

[BennySwella]

No silly you sign Tom Brady and let him sit behind the GOAT until he retires.

 

[Gonzofinfan]

If Tua is as injury prone as a good number here are saying, there should be no problem getting him at pick 5..

I think its a pipe dream when people are saying we have to use all these picks on Offensive Lineman or Starters for next season..
Truth is I would rather have more FA veterans starting on our Oline then Green Rookies protecting our Franchise QB..

I am 100 percent for drafting another QB this year like Fromm, Love Hurts or Gordon from Washington state.. I would draft one in rounds 2-4 to compete and Push Tua instead of just handing him the reigns and Hell just Maybe we end up with a stud backup who we can parlay into a higher draft pick ala the Pats and Garrapollo..

A Good QB will always net you a great profit in trade, I just don't want anymore QB's like Matt Moore that you freak out and can't rely on if he has to start the season..If I were G.M. I'd always have a younger guy ready to step in from the first game and know there will be an upside rather then a retread like we knew Matt Moore was.