Intro to Hunter Long TE :RD 3 | Page 13 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Intro to Hunter Long TE :RD 3

royalshank

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How many TEs does it take to screw in a light bulb ? Don’t we still have Gesicki, Shaheen, the guy we drafted same year as Gesicki and someone else who’s name begins w an “M” or something on the practice squad? If we wanted a TE we should have stayed at 3 and taken Pitt’s!
 

Digital

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Look, Tua isn't as transcendent as things like the "Tua Worship Thread" on here would like you to believe. But you've got to understand play style and QB strength.

Tua was a guy who was lethal in college at hitting guys after their break. Alabama wasn't asking this guy to throw 50/50 balls all the time in college. We threw him in without a single guy who could reliably make a great and get open - and I'm talking on the entire darn team. The closest guy to doing that is Grant, and he is a doofus who can't catch. Yeah, Tua benefited from a great support cast at Alabama, guys who could get open. Yeah, I had doubts about Tua being the right fit for the Dolphins. But that's because I understood pretty clearly that we were drafting a guy who what he did best and the only things our receiving corps did weren't going to mesh with each other until we did some re-tooling. I just didn't imagine that we'd pull Fitz 6 games in, and that was a big mistake.

Not every QB drafted the last two nights is a 50/50 ball thrower (Wilson and Trask are). And not every QB can throw passes over the middle to receivers in stride. You can hate on Tua for not being able to throw Gesicki open, or Parker on one leg, but that's something that a lot of QBs would struggle to do game in and game out. The Dolphins just made the mistake in selling everybody on that possibility when they prematurely benched a guy who could.
Not disputing any of that brother. Just that when you look at the stats of virtually every QB, including Brady, they are good stats when they are given a clean pocket and time to throw ... no matter who their targets are and no matter how much separation they do or do not generate. It also doesn't really matter how great the receiver hands are. It barely matters how many targets they have. The one metric that holds across the board is that a clean pocket and time to throw = excellent numbers for almost every QB in the NFL. Comparing the same QB on the same team vs. their own numbers when they do not have time to throw and do not have a clean pocket, it is literally night an day. Every QB suffers a massive degradation of performance.

This is why good defensive coaches, like Belichick and Coach Flo, tend to de-value the QB position sometimes. They want a game manager that allows them to dominate the game with a suppression field of a stifling defense, and as long as the QB and RB's aren't turning the ball over ... they just win. And for the most part, they're right. Until eventually, their defense gets found out (like we did at Buffalo last year) and the offense is required to win the game .. and cannot.

Today everybody loves the mobile QB ... it just looks cool. It also provides the illusion of more offense. In some cases, like Lamar Jackson, Cam Newton, and Kyler Murray, the QB isn't a mobile QB, but rather a running QB and he does provide a big chunk of offense running the ball. But for most other QB's, they look at those 7 yard runs as extra yards ... not 2 extra pass attempts of 15 yards each, one of which was completed. The Fran Tarkenton / Russel Wilson scrambler would have throw the ball ... and done quite well yardage-wise, and probably made more 1st down conversions. The mobile QB often gets empty yardage and a punt. Nothing against the mobile QB's .. but it's really just the other side of the same coin ... they run INSTEAD of passing ... not in addition to passing. Sure, it is tougher for the defense to defend, but defenses are overmatched as it is just trying to defend the pass these days. They rarely stop the run when a team tries to run with a RB.

At the end of the day, the reason you want a mobile QB is because he can still perform at a high level when the OL is not giving him time to throw, and when he does not have a clean pocket. It's not the yardage that makes him better than a statue ... it's the ability to somewhat neutralize an effective pass rush. We saw it in the Super Bowl. Mahomes--as good as I've seen at avoiding the rush while keeping his eyes downfield--went from having his full complement of All-Pro and Pro-Bowl blockers to a patchwork OL facing a ferocious Buccaneers defensive pass rush. Even as good as Mahomes is ... his game suffered dramatically. Even his evasion skills were simply not enough to neutralize that pass rush ... and that's why they lost the game.

This is the reason that in today's pass-first NFL, I'm always pushing for reaching a consistently solid OL. Bad OL = bad QB play = bad offense. Decent to good OL play = chance for success without a dominant QB. Tua's strength is supposed to be his mobility ... but last year he simply was a checkdown charlie who couldn't adjust to the NFL Open of a 1 to 3 yard window and seemed to require an Alabama Open of 7 yards wide open ... that almost never happens in the NFL. Even Waddle, with his elite speed, isn't going to consistently generate that in the NFL. Fitz, a grizzled veteran, was comfortable throwing into those small windows ... and yes it led to some turnovers, some 50/50 balls, and inevitably, far more offensive firepower. That's just what a good QB needs to be able to do in the NFL, because we cannot guarantee him a clean pocket, we cannot guarantee him time to throw at a leisurely pace, and we cannot guarantee him unrealistic separation zones. Tua was a rookie, and he took his lumps. But this year he needs to step up. If he doesn't, he will be replaced, just like Coach Flo has done with all the other guys who didn't perform.
 

PHINANALYST

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IF we wanted him, fine I guess .... he was the 3D rated TE by a lot of folks, just didn’t think we needed one, just like RB, thought we were good enough for this year.

Hope he can shine next year!
 

PSU Cane

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Half the board wanted Pitts a TE

We draft a TE the board flips.

Completely different player and need.
- One guy runs a 4.4, the other a 4.7
- One guy viewed as a generational talent and can play in-line, flex or as a big WR while the other is strictly an in-line TE. He may have played flex at BC but he couldn't beat man coverage from the tape i saw.

I just don't see Long being any different than Smythe or Shaheen already on roster and guys like Long are available each year......solid but not spectacular. The UNC game is a good one to watch for him. He has the opportunity to make a few tough, contested catches in that game but doesn't come up with them. I remember a drop or two as well.
 

Hoot

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Flores is enamored with this guy. Showed more excitement for him then I'd seen with other picks.
 

The Ghost

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I am shocked at how many people on here seem to really believe the random crap they think they know about these prospects.

Yup.

People freaking out about players we passed on that are still available as if 31 other teams didn't pass on the same players.

Should we trade two first rounders for JK Dobbins?
 

Hoot

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He loves the BC connection.
I could be off, but I envision Hunter Long was a guy that was okay to the rest of the room. Nothing more. Grier even joked in the presser this was entirely a Flores pick. And maybe there is a fair amount of truth to that. I think they were going to target TE in the draft at some point, and Flo pounded the table to make it the BC alum with Pitts gone. Can't blame him. The guy was not a slouch in college. And you know what, if you're a head coach and you want to go get your guy, go for it.
 

The Ghost

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Flores is enamored with this guy. Showed more excitement for him then I'd seen with other picks.

Hard not to be. He's a talent and at a much more primary position than RB.

There is all kinds of athleticism. He looks more like those elite TE's in KC and SF than big Mike does. I like the combo, at least for this season.
 

Dan13Forever

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I was like 'WTF!'.
Now the more i thought about it, the more sense it made. MG is on his last contract year. And two TE formation like NE. They have a plan.
 
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