Iron Triangle is no more... can we recover?
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ckparrothead
Premium Member
There were very good things said about Larry Chester by the media but as he's still recovering from an injury that perhaps he should be recovered from already, they've quieted on him. I know I don't have the same view of him that I did a while ago, when we first signed him and saw what he could do.
One thing the guy who wrote the article forgets is that back in 98 and 99, Brock Marion was played closer to the line of scrimmage. In 2000 I believe we moved our safeties to playing strict cover two with no help for the front seven. In 98, the iron triangle had help and Brock Marion was a BIGTIME tackler (124 tackles in 1997, 98 tackles in 1998, 86 tackles in 1999). Under Jimmy we were much more committed to stopping the run and even though we were VERY confident in our front seven (Bowens + DG in their primes, Zach, Mixon, Robert Jones back when he was good, Rodgers solid...) we still gave them help with Brock Marion. Every now and then as a result we got beat deep (even Madison, mostly Buckley). With Bates' arrival we got away from that and in some ways we're better and in others we're worst. #1 pass defense in the league, run defense not so hot. Goal is to get our front seven to where we could play strict cover two but I don't think we're there yet...
One thing the guy who wrote the article forgets is that back in 98 and 99, Brock Marion was played closer to the line of scrimmage. In 2000 I believe we moved our safeties to playing strict cover two with no help for the front seven. In 98, the iron triangle had help and Brock Marion was a BIGTIME tackler (124 tackles in 1997, 98 tackles in 1998, 86 tackles in 1999). Under Jimmy we were much more committed to stopping the run and even though we were VERY confident in our front seven (Bowens + DG in their primes, Zach, Mixon, Robert Jones back when he was good, Rodgers solid...) we still gave them help with Brock Marion. Every now and then as a result we got beat deep (even Madison, mostly Buckley). With Bates' arrival we got away from that and in some ways we're better and in others we're worst. #1 pass defense in the league, run defense not so hot. Goal is to get our front seven to where we could play strict cover two but I don't think we're there yet...
Agreed...
I agree completely, ck.
We were great at stopping the run under Jimmy Johnson, in part because of the Iron Triangle and in part because of our safeties played close to the line of scrimmage. I want this to return!
Under JJ/George Hill, we did not have two shut-down CBs. T-Buck was liable to give up a big play and Surtain was nothing more than a very good nickel back. When we blitzed or cheated safeties up to the line, we paid for it. Maybe not all the time, but more often than we all cared for.
To say that Bates infuriated me last season would be an understatement. He depends too much on the DL to to stop the run and put pressure on the QB; he had blind faith in a unit that, frankly, wasn't very good last year and borderline terrible down the stretch. Maybe with Armstrong and Taylor off the edges and a healthy Daryl Gardener this unit was great. He has to know that the responsibility of our defense has to lie in the hands of our secondary, not our DL! Whether or not Bates wakes up could dictate how well we play on defense.
I agree completely, ck.
We were great at stopping the run under Jimmy Johnson, in part because of the Iron Triangle and in part because of our safeties played close to the line of scrimmage. I want this to return!
Under JJ/George Hill, we did not have two shut-down CBs. T-Buck was liable to give up a big play and Surtain was nothing more than a very good nickel back. When we blitzed or cheated safeties up to the line, we paid for it. Maybe not all the time, but more often than we all cared for.
To say that Bates infuriated me last season would be an understatement. He depends too much on the DL to to stop the run and put pressure on the QB; he had blind faith in a unit that, frankly, wasn't very good last year and borderline terrible down the stretch. Maybe with Armstrong and Taylor off the edges and a healthy Daryl Gardener this unit was great. He has to know that the responsibility of our defense has to lie in the hands of our secondary, not our DL! Whether or not Bates wakes up could dictate how well we play on defense.
dolphan39
Maria & LauRen Aha!
Chester must completely replace DG's presense or else we will need to bring our S up much more often.
I would like our D to be more unpredictable so that on each and every play the opposing O would not know if the S are coming up staying back until they come out of the huddle; and even then, we can drop the S back when they look like they are up to adjust to an audible or just to mess w/the OC on the other team. Our D is just as good if not better than NEs, except their coach. I want to be saying that it was Wanne's influence on Bates that made our D one of the top 2 or 3 in the AFC or NFL in 2002.
I would like our D to be more unpredictable so that on each and every play the opposing O would not know if the S are coming up staying back until they come out of the huddle; and even then, we can drop the S back when they look like they are up to adjust to an audible or just to mess w/the OC on the other team. Our D is just as good if not better than NEs, except their coach. I want to be saying that it was Wanne's influence on Bates that made our D one of the top 2 or 3 in the AFC or NFL in 2002.
Bodzilla29
The Shiznit
Where we will miss DG is in the pass rush up the middle. To say Chester will make us forget about DG is a falacy. Chester has just about the same pass rush abilities as, well just about as much as ME! he WILL NOT get a rush up the gut like Gardener did, and he will not collapse the pocket. He will however, free up Zach to make all the plays near the LOS.
They are different players. There is a reason DG was a Multi-millionaire and Chester is at the prime of his money making days at around $1.5 /year. DG(of course when healthy) was vastly superior to Chester in every facet of the game. To think Chester can come in and do the same job would mean we have been overpayiong Bowens and DG for YEARS now. There is a reason they are highly paid players(they were anyway).
They are different players. There is a reason DG was a Multi-millionaire and Chester is at the prime of his money making days at around $1.5 /year. DG(of course when healthy) was vastly superior to Chester in every facet of the game. To think Chester can come in and do the same job would mean we have been overpayiong Bowens and DG for YEARS now. There is a reason they are highly paid players(they were anyway).
ckparrothead
Premium Member
This defense is still at its best when we're playing strict cover two and are stopping the run. Bates thought he had a good enough front seven when it came down to it thats all. He didn't and he doesn't now, so he's gonna have to adjust. He will. He's not only adjusting the safeties but he's taking some cues from the Baltimore defensive system under Marvin Lewis...which to me, means 3-4/4-3 switches, and linebacker blitzes.
..CHESTER?..heuuue, yas gotta be kidden,with Gardener and u already lost your best de-man in Armstrong you guys are toast!!!!!!!!pretty boy *** taylor better get on your steroid program awfully fast! wooohooooo!your de is ..... TOAST!!!!
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Since when was Trace Armstrong our best DE?
WharfRat
Taylor Club
Ummm... better brush up on some facts before you start with your inane banter...Originally posted by beefalow
[Bwith Gardener and u already lost your best de-man in Armstrong you guys are toast!!!!!!!!pretty boy *** taylor better get on your steroid program awfully fast! wooohooooo!your de is ..... TOAST!!!!
Armstrong was one of the better player we had - 2 seasons ago - but not the best. "*** boy taylor" doesn't need steriods, he does just fine without them... if he's not double/triple teamed... he sacks the QB, plain and simple.
Defense is toast? We'll see when we come to your town... which is where by the way? Buffalo?
I agree he loves every qb`s ..."SACS"Originally posted by WharfRat
Ummm... better brush up on some facts before you start with your inane banter...
Armstrong was one of the better player we had - 2 seasons ago - but not the best. "*** boy taylor" doesn't need steriods, he does just fine without them... if he's not double/triple teamed... he sacks the QB, plain and simple.
Defense is toast? We'll see when we come to your town... which is where by the way? Buffalo?
WharfRat
Taylor Club
How old are you?
Good God son... grow up already
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Have you seen Zach's sister? She's gorgeous.
CRAZYDOLFAN305
We Are Still Going To The SB
Ck where did you hear that his taking cue from Marvin Lewis ? Because if that's the case I believe that we have an overall better personnel than they did when they won the bowl. So if he's taking cue under those circumstances I know our Defense has a very good chance of finishing number one overall this year.!!!! Yeah I saw Zach's sister during last year's Training-Camp. She was leaning over the fence with her platinum wedding ring on blinding the **** out of my eyes. I was just gauging at her. I said to myself I would have married her *** to. ****, I would give her all my money in a heart beat. I know JT must get over losses very easy looking at that beautiful face every night..LOL
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