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Is Belichick Best Coach Ever?

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I just dont buy into Beli being a true football X & O genius..If he was that much smarter than all those other hacks in his profession he should be on the POTUS ticket, not on the sidelines. In his time before NE...He was almost ran out of Coaching. He is a product of his surroundings pure & simple. Not that Shula & The other were not but they coached in a much different NFL than the current BeliChi era. The Pats have a strangle hold on the talent market and get favorable calls due to the weight Lord Kraft swings within the league structure.They operate in a weak AFC-E division and keep it that way by pooching the talent from within their OWN division (something once considered taboo) *Welker & numerous others Its a owners league and was back when Joe Robbie ruled the roost. So IMO and believe me its not sour grapes...There are any number of Coaches who could be big winners up there.
 
Among those I've seen, I would say Belichick first followed by Walsh. I love Lombardi's approach but I was old enough to follow only the final couple of years with the Packers. That's not enough to make a full assessment.

Shula definitely slots below those three, IMO. He was the ultimate hard worker but no threat of brilliant. There were many games, for example, in which a radically different game plan than the norm was proper, given the opponent. Walsh and especially Belichick would understand that and implement. It would never occur to Shula. Keep in mind two of my closest friends growing up were sons of Dolphin assistant coaches during the glory era. They confirmed that little changed week to week. Shula also loses major points by veering to a pantyhose passing approach under Marino, parallel to the brute NFC teams coached by Parcells, Gibbs, and Ditka, along with Walsh. It was always comical that the Dolphins were so highly rated during those '80s years. Which one of those NFC powers were we supposed to defeat, had we ever advanced to the Super Bowl again? Mangle mangle.

If we're going to doubt Belichick based on Brady, I'll point out that Shula enjoyed three Hall of Fame quarterbacks in Unitas, Griese and Marino. It seems to be a common denominator throughout that coaching list. Yet currently we emphasize the need to fortify the team as a whole and accept the quarterback we have now. Interesting.
 
I don't know if Bill is the best but Brandt's top 5 looks good to me. The only definitive one that can't be debated as the best is Landry in my opinion but, that doesn't mean he wasn't a great coach. My deep dislike for the Cowboys grew when they dumped him the way they did. Imagine my disappointment when Shula was treated badly at the end of his last year in Miami.

I think the strongest argument could be made for Walsh as the best.
 
As much as it pains me... BB gets my vote for greatest coach. You give him any player and he gets the most out of them no matter what the position.
 
Different eras. Winning as much as Belichek does in the salary cap era is remarkable. The cast of characters outside of Brady that he wins with at times is equally as remarkable.
 
I respect the heck out of Gil Brandt, his knowledge about the game is paralleled by only a small and rare few, BUT . . . I agree with him 100%. :D

All five have contributed so much to the game, though I have yet to read, study, or listen to, anyone who did it better than Shula and Belichick.

I've never studied Lombardi but what little I have read up on him was that he was one of the first greats and that in itself is a substantial accomplishment. Walsh was a first favorite of mine to study. I still love to go though his notes and watch his clinics, but the one subject that holds him back is longevity. Landry had the longevity and holds an NFL record of 20 consecutive winning seasons, which is 5 more than his closest rival.

That leaves Shula and Belichick.

Shula is the literal undefeated champion when it comes down to winning possessing the only undefeated season in NFL history and is obviously known for his record 347 wins. His contributions also extend far beyond the field and transformed the game in many ways with his seat on the competition committee. Shula is truly great.

Belichick is the unapproachable best. To do what he has done, in terms of running an incredibly successful team from a GM and HC perspective, is for a lack of better words - mesmerizing and spectacular; especially in this day and age designed for parity. Belichick is an unrivaled strategist and nothing short of a genius in how consistently far ahead of the game he remains compared to other past and modern day coaches. Every so often he'll share brilliant pieces of information which he reveals in his press conferences; those are a gem. Belichick is by far my favorite head coach to read about and study. Belichick is the best coach in NFL history. It's a shame if you can't acknowledge that, respect him, and are missing out on a chance to witness the very best.
 
Shula won w so many different types of teams and QBs etc. 33 seasons and only 2 losing seasons? 6-10 and 6-8. He has my vote until BB passes him in wins.

As for SBs - these guys are 1 play each away from both being 3-3. Kim Bokamper hands on to that pick 6 (great play by Theisman) and Lynch gets the ball and these guys have the same record in the big game. Look at the entire body of work. Shula was great w two teams. BB great only w Brady. I think it's Shula, BB, Walsh, Lombardi, Halas
 
Colostomy Bag said:
I respect the heck out of Gil Brandt, his knowledge about the game is paralleled by only a small and rare few, BUT . . . I agree with him 100%. :D

All five have contributed so much to the game, though I have yet to read, study, or listen to, anyone who did it better than Shula and Belichick.

I've never studied Lombardi but what little I have read up on him was that he was one of the first greats and that in itself is a substantial accomplishment. Walsh was a first favorite of mine to study. I still love to go though his notes and watch his clinics, but the one subject that holds him back is longevity. Landry had the longevity and holds an NFL record of 20 consecutive winning seasons, which is 5 more than his closest rival.

That leaves Shula and Belichick.

Shula is the literal undefeated champion when it comes down to winning possessing the only undefeated season in NFL history and is obviously known for his record 347 wins. His contributions also extend far beyond the field and transformed the game in many ways with his seat on the competition committee. Shula is truly great.

Belichick is the unapproachable best. To do what he has done, in terms of running an incredibly successful team from a GM and HC perspective, is for a lack of better words - mesmerizing and spectacular; especially in this day and age designed for parity. Belichick is an unrivaled strategist and nothing short of a genius in how consistently far ahead of the game he remains compared to other past and modern day coaches. Every so often he'll share brilliant pieces of information which he reveals in his press conferences; those are a gem. Belichick is by far my favorite head coach to read about and study. Belichick is the best coach in NFL history. It's a shame if you can't acknowledge that, respect him, and are missing out on a chance to witness the very best.
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i absolutely respect this view. I used to hate BB - now as I have gotten older I have learned to appreciate him and his accomplishments. I still put Shula ahead until BB passes him in wins. It's still a 100 win difference which is incredible if you think about it.
 
superphin said:
Between 1983 and 1996 only 1 AFC team won the super bowl and that was the 1983 Raiders, it was tough for any AFC team to win a super bowl in that time frame, a lot of those 80's super bowl winners will go down as some of the best teams ever than you had the dynasty of the Cowboys in the 90's. Its kinda like being an NBA team during the Jordan era...your just not going to win. Now obviously a lot of that falls on Shula for not having better drafts, he probably shoulda gave up his GM powers.
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It's too bad we didn't have a coach who could make up for our talent deficiencies with good coaching.
 
royalshank said:
i don't see any correlation. Poor argument. Having a franchise QB in those days didn't guarantee you a playoff spot like today. If Marino played under roger goodells rules he'd never miss the playoffs and would have a bunch of rings. Another poster pointed out - and I have railed on this on this forum before - from '83-'97 the NFC won every SB. Why? Huge o-lines and run games. The AFC teams were more finesse. The Bills came the closest the one year and they were probably the best team during that era to NOT win.
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Having a franchise qb AND the great coaching chops of Don Shula should of been a guaranteed playoff spot every season. It's like saying Dale Earnhardt is the greatest driver of all time even though he couldn't win the Cup series with consistently one of the fastest cars for 13 years, throw in he didn't even qualify for the chase 6 times and it's even more absurd statement. He even had the audacity to blame Jimmy Johnson for Marino never winning a ring in an interview once.
 
The debate who was the greatest coach ever is as useless as the who was the greatest QB ever.
If Mark Levy/Kelly and Shula/Marino would have coached/played under today's rules or would play today Bellicheck/Brady may never make the playoffs. Different times. I probably would give the nod more towards the old guard because coaching was much tougher back then.
 
Bill will go down with the most wins eventually as long as his desire to coach is there, even if he doesn't match numbers with Shula, he will be viewed as the best. People have mentioned his coaching on the field but for me it goes beyond that. The man his injected a culture and kept it going. Where else do you see a player like Chad Johnson going and toning down his antics for sake of winning? With the Bucs and Steelers L. Blount has been a clown on and off the field but with BB, the guy is a bruiser and silent as a mouse off the field.
 
I still think Shula is the GOAT, however a strong case continues to grow for Belichick. He has 4 Superbowl rings as a head coach and he has 2 as the assistant coach of the Giants. BB is a defensive mastermind and the only reason Parcells has any rings, is because of BB and his defenses shutting down a future hall of famer in Elway, and an offensive powerhouse and a team that was overall better then the Giants, in Jim Kelly and that 1990 Buffalo team, who in my opinion was the much better team.

What is kind of surprising to me is all the mentions that Bill Walsh gets. In my view, Walsh does not even crack the top 5 of all time.

Walsh only coached a total of 10 years, and had 3 LOSING seasons in those 10 years. Compare that to Shula and 33 years of coaching and only 2 losing seasons during that span, and its not even a discussion. Having only 2 losing seasons in 33 years as a head coach, is an unbelievably impressive stat in my opinion. Shula also coached an undefeated season capped off with a Super Bowl win, with a bulk of the season having to use a 38 year old backup QB in Earl Morrall, due to a Griese leg injury. Never has any other coach been able to go 1. Undefeated ending in a Super bowl win, and 2. Do it with your back up QB for a majority of the season.

Also regarding Walsh. People regard him as an offensive mastermind. In 1985 and 1986 though, Bill Walsh's teams scored a grand total of 6 points in 2 playoff games. Both losses to the NY Giants, and the Defensive coordinator on both those Giant teams who destroyed Walsh and the 49ers, yes you guessed it...Bill Belichick. Also in the '87 season Walsh's 49ers were 1 and done in the playoffs for a 3rd consecutive season.

Just those facts alone, Bill Belichick and Don Shula are better coaches then Bill Walsh.

Don Shula, or Bill Bilichick have got to be the GOAT. With an honorable mention to Lombardi, Halas and Knoll.
 
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