Is playing Phillips at LB a huge mistake?

[Ferretsquig]

I understand fully what you're saying.
I realize a LOT of Edge guys also play OLB. It's extremely common, especially in a 3-4.
Thing is, a great LB will have 80 tackles while an Edge will have 40.
And how they tackle is drastically different. LBs often go head on into RBs with a full head of steam. An Edge is a disruptor/container. Most Edge tackles come from the side or behind.
I just wish the Dolphins would utilize Phillips only as a true Edge to aid in prolonging this young man's promising career.

I think that's rather hopeful thinking. Two linemen coming together generates a non trivial amount of force and doing that 60 times a game will take its toll on the mind and body. Its the knockout concussions that get everyone's attention but those guys are doing damage every time they collide.

 

[KingHydra]

I don't there's much disagreement on how we want Phillips used. You're looking at how OLBs on most other teams are used, while I'm looking at how similar players that were designated as OLBs were used in our system last year.

It's already been mentioned by me, and others, but just look at how "OLBs" like Van Ginkle and Lawson were used last year. They were used how you are asking Phillips to be used. Always playing on the line, outside of a handful of plays.

And I think his role will be a lot more like Lawson's, which involved much less pass coverage and much more snaps over Tackle (as opposed to playing outside, but still on the line).

Forget Phillips' health (not that I'm attempting to ignore concerns there), if we are playing him off the line with any degree of regularity, then I don't believe we are maximizing the skills he brings as a football player.

We both want Phillips to be used the same way. I just don't take the OLB designation very seriously or to be a good indication of what his true role will be.

In the the end, I think we both hope I'm right. And in this instance, I honestly think I am (and I don't tend to make speculative statements with that degree of certainty).

Great post. Well thought out and your points are well taken.

 

[NBP81]

I dont think coaches are all in a room arguing over if they should call him a DE or LB... Because the label you put on a player is trivial. I think being too caught up in labels actually limits your ability to put every player on your roster in an optimal position to succeed on any given play.

 

[Mach2]

I dont think coaches are all in a room arguing over if they should call him a DE or LB... Because the label you put on a player is trivial. I think being too caught up in labels actually limits your ability to put every player on your roster in an optimal position to succeed on any given play.

True.

I assume it has more to do with which unit meetings he attends, who his position coaches will be, etc.

 

[Russ57]

Its a little confusing to me. I'm an old school player. In my day we never used the nomenclature "Edge". Maybe, I misunderstanding the whole thing. I just thought they changed the position title from DE to Edge I dont see DE used anymore. Like the draft. There were no players listed as "DE" only "Edge?

I'm old school also and feel your pain.

To me an Edge can play 4-3 DE and/or 3-4 OLB. A 4-3 OLB (Will/Sam) is usually quicker and smaller with more coverage responsibilities. Heck in an old school base 4-3 your Will might cover a slot WR. You aren't lining him up as a DE with his hand in the dirt. 3-4 (only) DE's are typically much larger (280#) and are more run/contain guys.

 

[andyahs]

I dont think coaches are all in a room arguing over if they should call him a DE or LB... Because the label you put on a player is trivial. I think being too caught up in labels actually limits your ability to put every player on your roster in an optimal position to succeed on any given play.

The label is for fans.... hence the 6 page thread here.

 

[Burt Macklin]

Phillips suffered no concussions playing Edge exclusively for The Hurricanes and he dominated.
Why risk playing him again at Linebacker/Edge like his UCLA days?

Ogbah is listed as a LB too. he mainly played with a hand down, rarely played stand-up. Dolphins mainly run a 3-4, so he's an OLB in a 3-4, or a DE in a 4-3. It doesn't matter what he's listed at, they change formations like every other play. Sometimes they run a 2-3-6 (2 DL, 3 LB, 6 DB).

This guy's medical history is giving people aneurysms, I swear. He had 2 concussions across 2 years at UCLA, 1 as a kid. UCLA basically forced him to medically retire. He played lights out at Miami, no injury problems whatsoever.

The only thing we should worry about is, "does this guy play like he's scared he's going to get hit?" Judging by his Miami college tape, the answer is a resounding No. Hopefully that doesn't change.

 

[rickd13]

I dont think coaches are all in a room arguing over if they should call him a DE or LB... Because the label you put on a player is trivial. I think being too caught up in labels actually limits your ability to put every player on your roster in an optimal position to succeed on any given play.

Yeah, I think you are going to find the same type of thing with Holland. They will call him a safety, but he is going to play all over the secondary including the slot.

 

[j-off-her-doll]

Its a little confusing to me. I'm an old school player. In my day we never used the nomenclature "Edge". Maybe, I misunderstanding the whole thing. I just thought they changed the position title from DE to Edge I dont see DE used anymore. Like the draft. There were no players listed as "DE" only "Edge?

As I understand it, the term Edge was created to capture the blending of the roles of the 3-4 OLB and the 4-3 DE. It's a way of saying the 3-4 OLB is more similar to a 4-3 DE than an off-ball LB.

So, when Miami says he’s playing LB, he's still playing Edge. I think Miami just wants to give him a little more space to use his speed and athleticism, and they can do more with his rush angles from a 2-point stance. I expect him to have his hand in the dirt on some obvious passing situations, but I think it's smart to move him wide. Plays to his strengths.

 

[KingHydra]

I'm old school also and feel your pain.

To me an Edge can play 4-3 DE and/or 3-4 OLB. A 4-3 OLB (Will/Sam) is usually quicker and smaller with more coverage responsibilities. Heck in an old school base 4-3 your Will might cover a slot WR. You aren't lining him up as a DE with his hand in the dirt. 3-4 (only) DE's are typically much larger (280#) and are more run/contain guys.

I thought the same until I watched the draft. They never used the descriptor "DE" for player position.
I also see the difference between and Edge and true DE as many DE are not well suited for LB due to one reason or another.
Only confusing part is the absence of using the term DE.

 

[DOLFANMIKE]

I'm old school also and feel your pain.

To me an Edge can play 4-3 DE and/or 3-4 OLB. A 4-3 OLB (Will/Sam) is usually quicker and smaller with more coverage responsibilities. Heck in an old school base 4-3 your Will might cover a slot WR. You aren't lining him up as a DE with his hand in the dirt. 3-4 (only) DE's are typically much larger (280#) and are more run/contain guys.

You are completely right. An Edge player can be an OLB or a DE. He can stand up or have hand down and still be an Edge player.
Edge is a concept not a position. The type of players that play there are guys exactly like Phillips.

 

[DOLFANMIKE]

There are more than one draft shows, but the ones I bounced around on acknowledged Paye, Phillips, Ojulari, Rousseau, Rumph as a DE Edge rushers. There may have been more but those stand out in memory. Edge players are typically a DE or OLB that can get to the passer AND set the Edge against the run.
Former players that would be considered Edge types and help establish the concept were players like the 49ers Charles Haley.

 

[Russ57]

I wonder what the national perception of Phillips would have been had the whole concussion/UCLA thing never happened. I think we got a steal in a weak edge class. We certainly needed a great edge guy on an affordable contract. Good to have that fifth year option as I'm thinking he is going to be getting a big contract one day.

I was expecting Paye due to Phillip's medicals but I'm thrilled we took the chance at greatness. Seems there was more to the whole concussion stuff than we first knew.

 

[DOLFANMIKE]

I wonder what the national perception of Phillips would have been had the whole concussion/UCLA thing never happened. I think we got a steal in a weak edge class. We certainly needed a great edge guy on an affordable contract. Good to have that fifth year option as I'm thinking he is going to be getting a big contract one day.

I was expecting Paye due to Phillip's medicals but I'm thrilled we took the chance at greatness. Seems there was more to the whole concussion stuff than we first knew.

I agree 100%.... IF and only IF the concussions are not a problem moving forward. If they are, then folks will point at that as being careless with the 18th selection.
I do really like the fit he is for our defense. I have been concerned about his injuries though.

 

[Russ57]

No scooters, no motorcycles, no problems:)