Is Zo a hall of famer?

[Enforcerfin33]

You aren't allowed to post in this thread because you haven't taken your team to a championship game.

I most certainly did...I led my Pee Wee baseball team to the Pee Wee championship

 

[Section126]

The '72 Phins aren't the best team of all time, they have the best record of all-time and were a great team but are not the best.

.

A blue ribbon panel from the NFL no less..disagrees with you.

#1 offense, #1 defense, undefeated, 7 HOFers. Who can boast a better set of accomplishments?

 

[Enforcerfin33]

A blue ribbon panel from the NFL no less..disagrees with you.

#1 offense, #1 defense, undefeated, 7 HOFers. Who can boast a better set of accomplishments?

Nobody from New Jersey thats for sure!

 

[nyjunc]

Undefeated, #1 offense, #1 defense, yeah..they aren;t the best of all-time..let me guess the 69 Jets were better.

Great team but played by far the easiest reg season sched of any SB Champ, the '73 Dolphins were better as well as a few other teams.

Again...team accomplishments mean nothing, when discussing the merits of an individual.

jason taylor has ZERO career playoff sacks, Taylor and Thomas have led a suppsoed big time D to the slaughterhouse in the playoffs. They don't need Championships but the humniliations year after year and taylor not showing up definitely hurt them.

The Miami D wasn;t a choking D. I already demonstrated that in another thread. Again..the 72 Dolphins had 1 HOF. The 1990's Cowboy D's ranked in the top 3 ...4 times...they won 3 superbowls. THEY HAVE ZERO HOFers on that D. I can blow that argument out of the water over and over again if you want.

You solidify my point, why shoudl a Miami D known for chkong get not one but TWO HOFers while truly great D's of the past don't have that many? By the way- Deion is going to make the HOF, Darren woodson may, Charles haley may.

it's the offense. it has always been the offense. Don't act as if you didn't know that. A crappy offense is not good for a defense.

But you said you need a big time running agme to win then iot was the QB then it was turnovers then I showed you TB did it w/o all 3- TB had a great D, Miami hasn't had a great D since the Killer B's.

Great...I give you almost 100 years of NFL history, you come up with one example. Fabulous research.

I came up w/ NE and Bal too. I am using recent RELEVANT history.

So now the threshold is the Div Round. Let me guess...if Zach and JT made it past the div round..the threshold would be the Championship round? Ask OJ Simpson how many playoff games he played in.

Defense can carry bad offenses to Championships, a great RB cannot carry a bad team to a Championship.

I can fill this thread with examples of hall of famers that had less success than Zach and JT in the playoffs. Don't act as if Bruce is the only example.

Did bruce have ZERO playoff sacks like Taylor? and bruce's D's helped get Buffalo to 4 SBs where in 3 of the game shis team lost to vastly superior teams. The ONLY team Miami lost to that didn't lose the following week was Denver in '98 and Denver went from scoring 38 against miami to 23 against the Jets. In '97 miami lost to NE 17-3 then NE scored 6 pts the following week and lost, in '99 they lost 62-7 to jax then jax scored just 14 and lost the next week, in '00 they lost 27-0 to Oak then oak scored just 3 the following week and lost, in '01 they lost 20-3 to Bal then Bal scored just 10 and lost the next week.

Barry and Eric were non-existant in their title game appearances. OJ had 4 rushing titles? So for him...stats are okay...but for Zach and JT they are not?

YES! Zach's big stats are tackles and that can be a very misleading statistic, it's not black and white the way rushing yards are. JT has ZERO carrer playoff sacks.

BTW...we are having this conversation as if Zach and JT retired yesterday. They haven't. They got a few years left to pad their resume's.

They CAN make it but they aren't in it. JT winning DPOY award was HUGE for a HOF resume, Zach doesn't have the hardware.

A blue ribbon panel from the NFL no less..disagrees with you.

#1 offense, #1 defense, undefeated, 7 HOFers. Who can boast a better set of accomplishments?

They played BY FAR the easiest sched of any Championship team. They didn't face a single playoff team during the reg season and played just 2 games against teams w/ winning records and those teams were 8-6. They won by 6, 4 & 7 in the postseason. That isn't dominant, if they played a tougher schred in the reg season they lose a game or 2. The '73 team was better as were the '78 Steelers, the '84 & '89 Niners, and the '85 Bears.

 

[Section126]

They played BY FAR the easiest sched of any Championship team. They didn't face a single playoff team during the reg season and played just 2 games against teams w/ winning records and those teams were 8-6. They won by 6, 4 & 7 in the postseason. That isn't dominant, if they played a tougher schred in the reg season they lose a game or 2. The '73 team was better as were the '78 Steelers, the '84 & '89 Niners, and the '85 Bears.

A blue Ribbon panel disagrees with you.

That schedule argument is one of my favorites...

Look at the schedule and see how those teams did the prior season. Kinda changes the dynamic quite a bit.

The teams you mentioned belong in the debate, the 85' Bears... were mentioned as #2 by the panel. That 85' Bears team was in no way better than the 72 fins. They were a one hit wonder. Caught a wave and then lucked out that the fins got upset in the AFC championship that year.

Talking about schedules..it was also interesting that year that the highest ranked offense they faced in the regular season..was the Fins at #5...and they got embarrassed.


BTW...as for those Cowboy teams....Woodson has no shot at the HOF...zero. Haley doesn't either. Deion Sanders played for a very short time and for one cowboy championship team. That team had the worst ranking of all of the cowboy defenses int he championship run.

I am talking about the Cowboy defenses that were ranked #1, and #3...those had a secondary of Holt, Brown, Washington, and Everett. They didn't have a pro bowler in 92'. yet they fit your criteria. Championships mean nothing in a hof debate.

 

[nyjunc]

Look at the schedule and see how those teams did the prior season. Kinda changes the dynamic quite a bit.

Who cares what they did the prior season? In 1972 the sched was a joke.

The teams you mentioned belong in the debate, the 85' Bears... were mentioned as #2 by the panel. That 85' Bears team was in no way better than the 72 fins. They were a one hit wonder. Caught a wave and then lucked out that the fins got upset in the AFC championship that year.

Lucked out? they would have crsuehd you guys in the SB but you weren't good enough to beat the team they beat 46-10 and that team beat you at HOME.

reg season and postseason are 2 different things, rememner in '98 you beat den at home on a Mon Night then lost 38-3 a few weeks later in the playoffs. That '85 team was far better than your '72 team, your '73 team could ahve been a tough game for them.

I am talking about the Cowboy defenses that were ranked #1, and #3...those had a secondary of Holt, Brown, Washington, and Everett. They didn't have a pro bowler in 92'. yet they fit your criteria. Championships mean nothing in a hof debate.

and again it strengthens my argument. if great D's had maybe 1 HOfer and possiblynone how can an overrated D like Miami's that was never close to great have 2 HOfers on it?

 

[UCFinfan86]

I don't care what kind of schedule they played, They were undeafeted and no team can match that.

Your not winning this argument, in the beginning i could see your point but now your just digging yourself a hole, your a hater, just quit already

 

[Section126]

Lucked out? they would have crsuehd you guys in the SB but you weren't good enough to beat the team they beat 46-10 and that team beat you at HOME.

Oh yeah..they would have crushed us...after we crushed them and embarrassed that "great" defense. They would have crushed us in a dome of all places. get real.

reg season and postseason are 2 different things, rememner in '98 you beat den at home on a Mon Night then lost 38-3 a few weeks later in the playoffs. That '85 team was far better than your '72 team, your '73 team could ahve been a tough game for them.

Huge massive difference. We beat them at Home, when they had nothing to play for. They beat us in their house in the cold when we were missing 3 starters on offense and 3 more on defense. We were a 15 1/2 point underdog in the playoff game and only a 7 point dog at home. We were not going to play the SUper Bowl at Soldier Field in 1985. We just matched up good against that 46 defense. That secondary was garbage.

and again it strengthens my argument. if great D's had maybe 1 HOfer and possiblynone how can an overrated D like Miami's that was never close to great have 2 HOfers on it?

Are you serious? For the last time...how many times am I going to have to say it? Championships have nothing to do with HOF viability. The Charger offenses of the late 70's and early 80's had 3 Hall of Famers on it. What did they win? So in your eyes...those offenses sucked?

That re-inforces what I am trying to tell you. Team success is not the same or does not go hand in hand with individual success.

 

[nyjunc]

I don't care what kind of schedule they played, They were undeafeted and no team can match that.

Your not winning this argument, in the beginning i could see your point but now your just digging yourself a hole, your a hater, just quit already

it was a great achievement but it wasn't even the best dolphins team let alone the best SB Champ of all time.

Oh yeah..they would have crushed us...after we crushed them and embarrassed that "great" defense. They would have crushed us in a dome of all places. get real.

yes b/c regular season games tell us who the best team is much like in '98 when you beat Den up at home then got humiliated in the playoffs. You put 31 up on Den in the reg season, 3 in the postseason. You hadn't lost at home to Ne in about 20 games or something like that and you wound up losing in the title game to the team the bears beat by 36.

Huge massive difference. We beat them at Home, when they had nothing to play for. They beat us in their house in the cold when we were missing 3 starters on offense and 3 more on defense.

Oooohhhhhh so it was b/c you were missing players. yep if you had your whole team you would have killed them. how come it didn't count when chicago was missing their QB in '85?

We were a 15 1/2 point underdog in the playoff game and only a 7 point dog at home. We were not going to play the SUper Bowl at Soldier Field in 1985. We just matched up good against that 46 defense. That secondary was garbage.

In '88 you scored 7 pts against Chi and you still had marino, Duper and Clayton. in '87 you played at Buddy Ryan and Philly and scored just 10 pts- it sure looks like you matched up well w/ the 46 defense.

Are you serious? For the last time...how many times am I going to have to say it? Championships have nothing to do with HOF viability. The Charger offenses of the late 70's and early 80's had 3 Hall of Famers on it. What did they win? So in your eyes...those offenses sucked?

the Chargers also made multiple title games and in the playoffs they scored points while Miami's D never got past the div rd and they couldn't stop teams from scoring and Jason taylor has ZERO career playoff sacks.

 

[Section126]

Oooohhhhhh so it was b/c you were missing players. yep if you had your whole team you would have killed them. how come it didn't count when chicago was missing their QB in '85?

Did I say that we would have killed them? (Broncos) NO. I said the opposite. They could have had the ghost of Sid Luckman play in that game and it wouldn't have mattered. The game was over at halftime. BTW...re-read that boxscore...please.

In '88 you scored 7 pts against Chi and you still had marino, Duper and Clayton. in '87 you played at Buddy Ryan and Philly and scored just 10 pts- it sure looks like you matched up well w/ the 46 defense.

When in doubt...you just make stuff up? In 1988 the Bears didn't run a 46 defense and teh personnel hardly resembled the 85 Bears.

In 1987 we played a 46 team in Buddy Ryan's Eagles...and WE BEAT THEM 28-10 in PHILLY. Where did you get that we scored 7 points?

In 1990 we played them again, this time at home...that was a #1 rated Eagles defense...we beat them 23-20..Marino threw for over 300 yards.

I guess we really did match up well against the 46.....go figure.

You are really good at being wrong.

the Chargers also made multiple title games and in the playoffs they scored points while Miami's D never got past the div rd and they couldn't stop teams from scoring and Jason taylor has ZERO career playoff sacks.

This is so stupid that it doesn't deserve any more responses. I have torn down this argument enough already.


BTW...stop making stuff up.

 

[Section126]

BTW ....Happy Birthday ZO...

He turns 37 today.

 

[Section126]

BTW nyjunc...your "This is a heat site" argument for the way the voting has gone..doesn;t hold water either.

The Heat thread is at 3 stars with every heat fan on this site voting 5 stars.

That means that an equal amount of members have voted 1 star on it.

I venture to guess that maybe 40% at best of the members that frequent this forum are Heat fans..the rest are fans of other teams.

 

[nyjunc]

When in doubt...you just make stuff up? In 1988 the Bears didn't run a 46 defense and teh personnel hardly resembled the 85 Bears.

the article below says they still ran the 46 in 1988.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/bears/2006-01-10-defense-focus_x.htm

dent was still there as was Singletary, Duerson, Gayle, hampton, mcmichael, Perry, Rivera and others. fencik, Otis wilson & Wilbur marshall were gone. They still had the core of that D intact and were ranked #1 in points and #2 in yards.

In 1987 we played a 46 team in Buddy Ryan's Eagles...and WE BEAT THEM 28-10 in PHILLY. Where did you get that we scored 7 points?

I made a mistake, I was looking at Chicago.

In 1990 we played them again, this time at home...that was a #1 rated Eagles defense...we beat them 23-20..Marino threw for over 300 yards.

The 31 rated eagle D that was ranked 12th in yds and points?

I guess we really did match up well against the 46.....go figure.

again, reg season games. Chicago would have mauled you in the SB. it doesn't really matter b/c you lost AT HOME in the conf title game.

This is so stupid that it doesn't deserve any more responses. I have torn down this argument enough already

yes you have torn it down by showing how maimi did against chi in '88, by showing how great Miami was against den after beating them up in the reg season- but that was b/c of injuries right? but Chi wasn't allowed that excuse. I think you proved it when you said it takes a great ground game then it was a great QB then it was not turning it over while I showed you multiple teams that won in spite of how you said what the dolphins D needed to win. The dolphin D in the late 90s-early 00s was NEVER close to great, Zach and Jt were the leaders of thoses Ds and JT didn't even show up in playoff games. So yeah you tore every one of my arguments

BTW nyjunc...your "This is a heat site" argument for the way the voting has gone..doesn;t hold water either.

Any more excuses? this is a Miami sports MB, for the voting even to be close should tell you something. put this vote on a neutral board and he doesn't have a chance, take off the heat and dolphin homer glasses and you'd see it clear as day.

 

[Section126]

Ah nyjunc....

You are just a hater. if I brought you to the induction ceremony, you would still argue.

Who are you kidding?

Stop twisting arguements to fit your criteria. I am not going to argue with you when all you do is move the goal farther away or up and down..or call foul..or just when in doubt..make another argument up.

 

[nyjunc]

Ah nyjunc....

You are just a hater. if I brought you to the induction ceremony, you would still argue.

Who are you kidding?

Stop twisting arguements to fit your criteria. I am not going to argue with you when all you do is move the goal farther away or up and down..or call foul..or just when in doubt..make another argument up.

I am objective, you are a homer. I can be honest about players and teams even though I hate them and I have proven that. Oh well, we'll see what happens in the future.