It's Official...Marriota enters the draft

[datruth55]

So which QB does Tampa Bay take? Do they even take a QB?

I don't think either one of these guys will have anyone trading up and giving Tampa Bay an RGIII type deal...too many red flags with both but I still say Jameis Winston is the better NFL QB.

 

[hoops]

what are the red flags with mariota??? from what i gather everything about the kid people love...he's gonna win in the meeting room and he's gonna run a low 4.5's 40...

if there's red flags it's you better run a system that fits his game...unless i'm just unaware of something

 

[datruth55]

what are the red flags with mariota??? from what i gather everything about the kid people love...he's gonna win in the meeting room and he's gonna run a low 4.5's 40...

if there's red flags it's you better run a system that fits his game...unless i'm just unaware of something

Bingo. Personality wise the kids a model QB but because of the system at Oregon it's hard to project his success in the NFL. I noticed a lot of people thought he played really well in the championship game but I was not impressed and towards the end when they were getting pressure on him his throws became very erratic. Didn't look like a guy that would stand in the pocket and deliver the throw when he knew he was going to get hit.

 

[hoops]

Bingo. Personality wise the kids a model QB but because of the system at Oregon it's hard to project his success in the NFL. I noticed a lot of people thought he played really well in the championship game but I was not impressed and towards the end when they were getting pressure on him his throws became very erratic. Didn't look like a guy that would stand in the pocket and deliver the throw when he knew he was going to get hit.

he's a system qb...not a progression read one...read option and pistol but once he runs that number and gets in the meeting room someones gonna fall in love with him...really once he runs that # if it's in the 4.5's it's all that matters...they will either tailor their system to fit his strengths or it will fail...they always forget about the shelf life though...think they can change a guys stripes...cant think of anytime it's ever worked...

 

[hoops]

Bingo. Personality wise the kids a model QB but because of the system at Oregon it's hard to project his success in the NFL. I noticed a lot of people thought he played really well in the championship game but I was not impressed and towards the end when they were getting pressure on him his throws became very erratic. Didn't look like a guy that would stand in the pocket and deliver the throw when he knew he was going to get hit.

he definitely looked skittish and makes you wonder if he will stand in vs pressure in his face and make the throw...threw one nice WIDE OPEN down the seam ball for a td placed spot on on a blown coverage and i think i saw him throw a couple nice balls in the holes of 2 deep zone if i recall correctly...on one qb designed run he came around the edge in the red zone put his head down and got straight drilled...looked dazed even...he tries that in the pros and they will be scraping his corpse off the ground

he knows that system damn well though and he can outflank you to the corner...

 

[hoops]

let me amend that...he can outflank college players to the corner...what he runs will determine how much he can at the pro level...johnny manziel outflanked college kids all over the place then he ran a 4.65 i think it was and he's figuring out in the nfl "these mf's can run" and struggling with it

rg3 ran 4.4 flat pretty much and that sick quick acceleration and to top end speed in a hurry murdered people his rookie year...outflanked defenses all over the place...til that acceleration went due to injury...

if he runs 4.7 then it's a new ball game for mariota...but it looks low 4.5's to me is where he will be...he is legitimately fast

 

[Tannenbombs]

I'm not going to get into all the reasons why I don't think he's a franchise quarterback. Just a few.

I really don't think he is going to play full 16 game seasons.. He does a good job getting down/ out of bounds but he is built like RG3 not Cam or Kap.. those guys are built like DE's. And I really think he needs a ton of work from the pocket. I think RG3 and Cam were both much more advanced from the pocket than he is and they are both still going through growing pains. I think his arm talent is average at best. I think he's a game manager and not even at the level of Tannehill (where he is currently, certainly on an upward trajectory) or Alex Smith. I wouldn't touch him in the first 2 rounds let alone #1 overall.

If Tampa doesn't take Leonard Williams they will set themselves back even more. I know McCoy is one of the best 3 techs in football but fug it. I'd put McCoy as a shade (1 tech) and Leonard at the 3. QB's hate interior pressure and that would be a good way to set themselves to get past ATL and CAR in the future. Leonard is the best player in the draft.

---------- Post added at 03:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:34 PM ----------

let me amend that...he can outflank college players to the corner...what he runs will determine how much he can at the pro level...johnny manziel outflanked college kids all over the place then he ran a 4.65 i think it was and he's figuring out in the nfl "these mf's can run" and struggling with it

rg3 ran 4.4 flat pretty much and that sick quick acceleration and to top end speed in a hurry murdered people his rookie year...outflanked defenses all over the place...til that acceleration went due to injury...

if he runs 4.7 then it's a new ball game for mariota...but it looks low 4.5's to me is where he will be...he is legitimately fast

Johnny ran 4.68 which is actually exactly what Derek Carr ran

I love Derek Carr I can't believe he fell the way he did he was by far my #1 QB. I think Teddy will be pretty solid also.

 

[datruth55]

It's a simple question for Mariota...can he operate from the pocket. If he can then he'll be successful...if not then he'll go the same route as Kaepernick.

 

[hoops]

if i'm tampa i'm taking jameis winston...end of story...they can add leonard williams all they want without a qb it's not gonna move the needle enough...great player but if i've got the top pick and a qbs there that looks like he has top 10 nfl long term potential i'm on it...and winstons pocket play and progressions work shows what i always like...winstons game has shelf life despite the below average athlete by nfl terms

 

[Tannenbombs]

if i'm tampa i'm taking jameis winston...end of story...they can add leonard williams all they want without a qb it's not gonna move the needle enough...great player but if i've got the top pick and a qbs there that looks like he has top 10 nfl long term potential i'm on it...and winstons pocket play and progressions work shows what i always like...winstons game has shelf life despite the below average athlete by nfl terms

Without a doubt but I'm worried that he's gonna get arrested for peeing on a girl drunk outside of a club or something stupid like that. The crab legs thing is an absolute joke.. if you don't think the Heisman trophy winner for the national champs gets free **** I don't know what to tell you.. and the rape thing is as well.. doesn't change the fact that he's immature and has gotten away with everything to the point that you worry what happens when you pay him 22 million guaranteed. When you get money you just become more of what you already are.

If he was clean off the field he's without a doubt the #1 pick. He truly can be a great NFL QB.

 

[hoops]

well the new cba helps me be more aggressive on a qb anyways with the rookie max contracts now...instead of $50 plus mil guaranteed i'm getting $22 mil for the top pick...and an out in 3 or 4 years max if i want one...

again though that qbs got to look the part...winston on the field absolutely does...

 

[datruth55]

I'm not going to get into all the reasons why I don't think he's a franchise quarterback. Just a few.

I really don't think he is going to play full 16 game seasons.. He does a good job getting down/ out of bounds but he is built like RG3 not Cam or Kap.. those guys are built like DE's. And I really think he needs a ton of work from the pocket. I think RG3 and Cam were both much more advanced from the pocket than he is and they are both still going through growing pains. I think his arm talent is average at best. I think he's a game manager and not even at the level of Tannehill (where he is currently, certainly on an upward trajectory) or Alex Smith. I wouldn't touch him in the first 2 rounds let alone #1 overall.

If Tampa doesn't take Leonard Williams they will set themselves back even more. I know McCoy is one of the best 3 techs in football but fug it. I'd put McCoy as a shade (1 tech) and Leonard at the 3. QB's hate interior pressure and that would be a good way to set themselves to get past ATL and CAR in the future. Leonard is the best player in the draft.

---------- Post added at 03:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:34 PM ----------



Johnny ran 4.68 which is actually exactly what Derek Carr ran

I love Derek Carr I can't believe he fell the way he did he was by far my #1 QB. I think Teddy will be pretty solid also.

Teddy should have been the top QB in the draft last year IMO. He was more NFL ready than the other three and Jacksonville would have been a good spot for him. I do like the pieces Jacksonville is putting together though...their last two drafts have been outstanding.

Leonard Williams is a game changer from the DT position...he can definitely win games for you but Tampa Bay needs to score points or it won't matter. You can't win games 17-14 every week. The fact that they were 29th in scoring last year with two 1000 yard receivers in Vincent Jackson and Mike Evans is alarming. 20 TDs and 21 INTs from their two QBs last year...plus an offense that can sustain drives would help their defense. With the way the rules are set up in the NFL trying to build a shutdown defense would take longer than trying to build a high powered offense...by the time you have all the pieces in place it will be time to have to re-sign players and spend money just to try and hold it together, not leaving much on the offensive side. Plus no one in that division outside of the Panthers have a defense worth a darn...they all just try to outscore each other and if you can't keep up you lose.

 

[ChambersWI]

I will say this in Marriota's defense I saw him avoid pressure quite a few times and make some nice throws down the field, but the Ducks WRs dropped some easy passes. At the same time, he missed some easy lobs.

Marriota's got a lot of tools and personality teams are gonna want to work with.

 

[Tannenbombs]

I will say this in Marriota's defense I saw him avoid pressure quite a few times and make some nice throws down the field, but the Ducks WRs dropped some easy passes. At the same time, he missed some easy lobs.

Marriota's got a lot of tools and personality teams are gonna want to work with.

I can't describe his arm strength or overall accuracy as anything but average at best. I think that is even pushing it.

 

[Canadi-Phin]

I think sometimes we all look at this system QB stuff too much now. Peyton operated 90% out of the gun and ran read option concepts thru out the last three years in Denver, same with Brady, Rodgers, Stafford. Playing under center is not asked as much of QBs anymore. I think he has all the tools you are looking for in a top QB. Winston does as well. I think both will be good QBs in the NFL, neither are small so they can see over the LOS, they both have very good arms, and they have lead teams offensively. Winston has just as many wrinkles in his game when it comes to throwing the ball. He really regressed this year on his reads when he lost lots of top tier receivers who would win the fighting match for the ball. If he goes to TB, he's lucky as he will have those type of receivers again. Look at the Oregon game, once they took Greene away from him, he and his other players struggled.

In the end, I like both and think both can end up being very good QBs