Jamar Chase Smackdown | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Jamar Chase Smackdown

That’s because even when he gets himself in a negative position he can overcome it with his strength and athleticism.
I definitely think he's the best talent in the draft. But I really don't see Miami taking him.
 
I'm just torn here. I think we'd have Sewell 100% slotted in as our pick if we didn't reach at OT last year and picked a WR. And we don't have to draft a C early if we resign Karras.

You've brought up how many picks we've spent on lineman but Dieter and Prince were busts. They're irrelevant to me. We've actually only come close to hitting on 3, and that's from starting a build from the absolute worst Oline I've ever seen. 100% rebuild there.

And we are very likely going to want to shed Flower's bloated contract next year, which will leave open a spot. We are in a perfect spot to have a line of Sewell, Kindley, Karras, Hunt, Jackson moving forward. We can search for a Karras replacement at some point.

I think adding Bateman and likely another 2nd round WR is enough to add in the draft. I'd also like to add an established WR like Samuel. I think Bateman is underrated and is not far off from the "top 3" that most act like we are doomed at WR if we miss out on.

I just think passing on the superior prospect at OT for WR is the reverse of what we did w Jackson/Jefferson last year (tho not as extreme). Feels like doubling down on our mistake. Maybe I need to get over that, but it was so obvious. I knew we were going OT even if Ceedee magically slipped to us. Not how u draft IMO.

If we go Chase/Smith I don't think it's a some sort of terrible mistake. The upside might be higher and the "need fill" is better. I'm ok if we go that direction.

But I'm also risk averse and don't like drafting for need. I will almost always prefer BPA. I said it before and it bore out with how we handled last draft.

If we stop drafting for need, we'll end up with less needs.
I agree with not drafting for need and value is the way to go... Problem is, I dont value OT as much when you already have one on a rookie contract, especially at #3 because you're making it 100% sure you've put LT value on a right tackle. Add in the fact that the OL as a group, benefits more from a high floor than a high ceiling and you get why I think spending 1st rounders on T in back to back years doesnt scream value for me.

I actually believe Fins would get much more return on their investment if they decided to fix whats left to be fix on the OL with more predictable FAs where they see fit to increase the floor. I really dont see how a great tackle makes more impact than a great WR on this offense.

WR is the complete opposite of OL in that category, you'd much rather have a top heavy unit than a high floor as you're mostly going to field 3 on any given play... More often than not, your 5th WR could very well be the worst 5th in the NFL and there's a good chance you might never even notice.

Whether you like the Jackson pick or not, you've got to at least concede that he was never going to be a year one contributor, he was young and raw. So with that in mind, I dont see how you pull the plug on it and throw a #3 at that spot, it's just bad management. If they wanted a quick fix, they messed up.
 
Watching Chase I see a very strong NFL prospect. If he is worried about beating press coverage--a very valid concern for any WR entering the NFL--then the conclusion should be that Chase is his preferred WR ... but for some reason, he ignores the indicators.

No, he's going off the all-22. Chase gets shut down in press.
 
He is the closest guy I have seen to Anthony Munoz
That was the first thing I thought when I saw him the very first time. He’s athletic, big, and nasty. Munoz hadn’t crossed my mind in years but then I saw this guy and I thought of Munoz. He’s actually a better run blocker IMO, right now than he is as a pass protector due to technique, tho I think he will be great at that with some subtle work.
 
I definitely think he's the best talent in the draft. But I really don't see Miami taking him.
And your opinion on that? Good idea? Bad idea?

BPA v Need is not as simple to me as some make it out to be, but in this case, I would say Sewell is clearly BPA (not inc. QBs).

I aslo hate spending high picks on the same position year after year.

Tough call. I still think a trade down is best, but I'm not doing it for some minimum return.
 
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I agree with not drafting for need and value is the way to go... Problem is, I dont value OT as much when you already have one on a rookie contract, especially at #3 because you're making it 100% sure you've put LT value on a right tackle. Add in the fact that the OL as a group, benefits more from a high floor than a high ceiling and you get why I think spending 1st rounders on T in back to back years doesnt scream value for me.

I actually believe Fins would get much more return on their investment if they decided to fix whats left to be fix on the OL with more predictable FAs where they see fit to increase the floor. I really dont see how a great tackle makes more impact than a great WR on this offense.

WR is the complete opposite of OL in that category, you'd much rather have a top heavy unit than a high floor as you're mostly going to field 3 on any given play... More often than not, your 5th WR could very well be the worst 5th in the NFL and there's a good chance you might never even notice.

Whether you like the Jackson pick or not, you've got to at least concede that he was never going to be a year one contributor, he was young and raw. So with that in mind, I dont see how you pull the plug on it and throw a #3 at that spot, it's just bad management. If they wanted a quick fix, they messed up.
I notice you said need v value, rather than need v BPA.

To me that indicates a subtle and interesting distinction coming from you, as you normally choose your words carefully (compliment). Just wondering if that was purposeful, or do you see the terms as interchangeable?
 
I agree with not drafting for need and value is the way to go... Problem is, I dont value OT as much when you already have one on a rookie contract, especially at #3 because you're making it 100% sure you've put LT value on a right tackle. Add in the fact that the OL as a group, benefits more from a high floor than a high ceiling and you get why I think spending 1st rounders on T in back to back years doesnt scream value for me.

I actually believe Fins would get much more return on their investment if they decided to fix whats left to be fix on the OL with more predictable FAs where they see fit to increase the floor. I really dont see how a great tackle makes more impact than a great WR on this offense.

WR is the complete opposite of OL in that category, you'd much rather have a top heavy unit than a high floor as you're mostly going to field 3 on any given play... More often than not, your 5th WR could very well be the worst 5th in the NFL and there's a good chance you might never even notice.

Whether you like the Jackson pick or not, you've got to at least concede that he was never going to be a year one contributor, he was young and raw. So with that in mind, I dont see how you pull the plug on it and throw a #3 at that spot, it's just bad management. If they wanted a quick fix, they messed up.

I think they want BPA and Penei looks like Hall of Fame potential.
 
“The Clemson national championship game, AJ Terrell, when theyre in press, AJ Terrell had his way with jamarr chase”

is an actual quote from this guy in the OP video



In the first 60 seconds of this video, jamarr chase cooks AJ Terrell in press man coverage 3 times

First play: 52 yard touchdown from the boundary.

Second play: 57 yard catch from the slot. AJ Terrell tackles him on the 2 yard line

Third play: 14 yard touchdown from the boundary.

every single one of these plays features press man coverage. AJ Terrell vs Jamarr chase.

jamarr chase might be the top player this year that folks have a blind spot on. I don’t think the NFL let’s him slip far.
 
And you think keeping drafting OL in the first and second round is the way to go? I mean, If they go the Sewell route, he'll be the 6th OL the Fins draft in a span of 2 drafts. I get not drafting for need but at some point, this OL overkill has to stop, at least until you actually know what you have.
I think the problem is that Miami sucks at drafting OL. IMO, even their 1st round picks weren't difference-makers. In the past decade, it didn't matter how many 1st round picks they had on the O-line, they still were one of the worst lines in the league. They used 1st round picks on Pouncey, James, and Tunsil, yet it didn't help so IMO those picks were wasted. (At least they made a killing trading away Tunsil!) Every OL drafted after the 1st round has been below average or a bust (Jonathan Martin, Dallas Thomas for example). I forget his name, but there was a guy drafted a few years back who was supposed to be a tough, physical OL but was soon gone. What's up with Dieter? And now they have Jackson, Hunt, and Kindley; three rookies who may or may not improve. The talk after the draft was that these new guys were "maulers" and would be good in the running game, but their run-blocking wasn't very impressive.

Miami needs to replace the guys who evaluate and choose OL, or just build a line using Free Agents. Every other team seems to draft competent OL outside of the 1st round, yet Miami can't even build an average line using 1st round picks!
 
“The Clemson national championship game, AJ Terrell, when theyre in press, AJ Terrell had his way with jamarr chase”

is an actual quote from this guy in the OP video



In the first 60 seconds of this video, jamarr chase cooks AJ Terrell in press man coverage 3 times

First play: 52 yard touchdown from the boundary.

Second play: 57 yard catch from the slot. AJ Terrell tackles him on the 2 yard line

Third play: 14 yard touchdown from the boundary.

every single one of these plays features press man coverage. AJ Terrell vs Jamarr chase.

jamarr chase might be the top player this year that folks have a blind spot on. I don’t think the NFL let’s him slip far.


Damn, excellent rebuttal. Now I don't know who to trust, lol...glad I'm just doing fake business.
 
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I don't have time to listen to this guy rant for hours, but I did listen to the part you pointed out. If he thinks Ja'Marr Chase had trouble against press ... LMAO, well he can't possibly rate Waddle and Smith!!!! That's just a total non-sequitur.

He loves Penei Sewell ... guess he doesn't want his tackles to run block. Good prospect as a pass protector, but there is a real argument that there are 3 top echelon OT's, and any of the three could turn out to be the best, and we will likely see at least one of them fall out of the top 10.

Watching Chase I see a very strong NFL prospect. If he is worried about beating press coverage--a very valid concern for any WR entering the NFL--then the conclusion should be that Chase is his preferred WR ... but for some reason, he ignores the indicators.

Curious why you think he can’t run block, I have never seen his run blocking questioned but actually called a strength. I am no expert but I’ve watched full games, not just highlights and have seen him collapse his side of the line with crushing run blocks.

According to PFF, Sewell was the highest-graded offensive lineman in the country at 95.8 overall in his sophomore season, "earning a 91.1 pass-blocking grade and a 95.7 run-blocking grade." Though Sewell opted out of the 2020 season, he is one of PFF's highest graded offensive lineman ever.”

 
I think the problem is that Miami sucks at drafting OL. IMO, even their 1st round picks weren't difference-makers. In the past decade, it didn't matter how many 1st round picks they had on the O-line, they still were one of the worst lines in the league. They used 1st round picks on Pouncey, James, and Tunsil, yet it didn't help so IMO those picks were wasted. (At least they made a killing trading away Tunsil!) Every OL drafted after the 1st round has been below average or a bust (Jonathan Martin, Dallas Thomas for example). I forget his name, but there was a guy drafted a few years back who was supposed to be a tough, physical OL but was soon gone. What's up with Dieter? And now they have Jackson, Hunt, and Kindley; three rookies who may or may not improve. The talk after the draft was that these new guys were "maulers" and would be good in the running game, but their run-blocking wasn't very impressive.

Miami needs to replace the guys who evaluate and choose OL, or just build a line using Free Agents. Every other team seems to draft competent OL outside of the 1st round, yet Miami can't even build an average line using 1st round picks!
Like it always says on the financial institution commercials...

Past results are no indication of future returns...

Just because past regimes have missed on several O-Linemen, does not imply that the current regime will. For instance, Kindley in the 4th looks like a reliable run-blocking Guard. Hunt in the second looks like he could be an average RT (or a better Guard), and Jackson was average as a LT in his first year and should improve... many thought he had the most upside in the Tackle class.

This regime looks to have gone three for three... with several RBIs.
 
And your opinion on that? Good idea? Bad idea?

BPA v Need is not as simple to me as some make it out to be, but in this case, I would say Sewell is clearly BPA (not inc. QBs).

I aslo hate spending high picks on the same position year after year.

Tough call. I still think a trade down is best, but I'm not doing it for some minimum return.
I think the best way to maximize the pick is to trade down. Ironically, Miami could get a Tunsil like return, or something close to that.

If Atlanta is a trade partner, Miami could swap spots and still get Sewell. But I don't think that's likely.

Can Sewell drop as far as six if Philadelphia is in play? Maybe if Cincinnati takes Chase.

The player I want most in this draft is Smith, but Sewell is a better prospect than Tunsil IMO.
 
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