James Walker (ESPN) thinks Miami has a QB controversy | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

James Walker (ESPN) thinks Miami has a QB controversy

ckparrothead said:
I think right now most Dolphins fans would account the tailbacks unit as one of the strengths of the team, thinking that the Dolphins' ground attack will be good and the only question is the passing attack.

I am just saying that I am not as sure of that as most are, because of a number of factors:

For one thing, Reggie Bush had a nice average last year but it was pretty much unprecedented rushing success for him. You get afraid, rightly or wrongly, that he's sort of a one-year wonder. I don't think you breathe the sigh of relief until the player follows that success up with more success.

For another, even taking that aside, we're talking about a multiple-cut/open-field runner moving to a one-cut zone system. I think it's OK to have some question marks about how well he's going to make that transition. Better, more established tailbacks than Reggie Bush have ended up overtaken in that system by total unknowns whose rhythm, vision and style just jives better with the zone system.

Third, you have the Daniel Thomas conundrum. Really pretty awful in 2011, one of the worst rookie tailbacks in the league. He dealt with some hamstring injuries, but I don't think those had as large effect as some (including him) would HOPE is true. He's moving to a system that benefits him more, which is good news. But is he cut out for the NFL period? I'm not sure I see the vision or the ability to consistently create yards after contact.

Finally, there's the blocking. I know we're trying to talk about the tailbacks but inevitably the success or failure of the blockers will bleed into the evaluation of the tailbacks. The Dolphins are moving to a new system and the players are still trying to get chemistry with one another in that system. Is it going to come together right away? Is that realistic?
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I don't think i'd agree that he was one of the worst rookie running backs last season.
 
Hahaha I meant Ryan Grant! You guys got me. Dammit. Brain Fart :)
 
TGall13 said:
I get what you're saying, but I always felt that a "controversy" was more of a difference of opinion on who should be starting....since we don't have a starter yet, i don't see how there could be a 'controversy'. Either way, we still don't know who will be our QB going in to the season.
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It's a matter of opinion, really. To me, when you've got a returning starter but also a new guy(s) who doesn't have the resume to be handed the job outright, but is instead competing, you've got a QB controversy. As I said, there are already sides setting up on either side of this. You've got Hartline in the bag for Moore and others (count OchoCinco among them) rooting for Garrard. I think that qualifies. If it doesn't qualify, I'm not sure what does. Or rather, I'm not sure how many situations there have really been in NFL history that do qualify.
 
Crazy685 said:
Hahaha I meant Ryan Grant! You guys got me. Dammit. Brain Fart :)
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I don't know who he reminds me of but I just know at that posititon it's all about how much you can create on your own with your vision, your ability to cut at speed, your balance and ability to do things after contact, etc. For me, he just doesn't do enough of that. I didn't see enough of it in college and I saw very little of it as a pro.

Great example, re-watch the Houston game from 2011. Big game for him. He had a run in there, think it was his biggest run of the day, looked great on paper. A nice 14 or 15 yard gain that increased his average a bit. But, dissect the run. He runs to the play side, where the play is supposed to go, and the OL had paved an 8-lane highway. You could have driven a Mack truck through that hole and gone untouched. Daniel busts into the 2nd level and runs straight for the point where both safeties are going to converage on him, runs straight into them and is tackled with MAYBE 1 yard after contact. No angling, no cuts, no creativity, no running to daylight...just straight ahead and see what I can get after contact...except I only get 1 yard because I'm an upright runner without special balance.

He had some GOOD runs in 2011, and some good catches as well. But being a running back is all about doing that often enough to average well, and he didn't have enough good plays. He just didn't. Not even enough of the sneaky good plays, like the catch he had in the second Jets game that went down on paper as a nothing little catch for 8 yards, but involved a good amount of impressive work to get those 8 yards and move the sticks. Watch everything he did in 2011 closely, as I have, and he didn't do that kind of thing near enough to think of him as an NFL starter at that position. I need to see that kind of ability on most plays, not just every now and then.
 
I don't see the slightest bit of QB controversy.

Moore is not a WCO QB. Devlin probably won't make it. So they got Garrard in for just a year to bed the WCO in and give Moore plus whoever they draft (lo and behold Shermans WCO QB) a while to adapt to an NFL WCO.

If Garrard starts, it means Moore and RT need more time to get in the flow. Plus there's everyone else in the system to bed in. As soon as either Moore or RT are ready, which could be Game 1, Garrard will step aside and - barring a failure by either of the other 2 to get it - he's gone in the spring.

If it clicks for Moore, he's in. Garrard will go straight to QB3 slot, IMO. His job as insurance policy and mentor is done.

I don't see a controversy, or a mess, or a straight 3-way battle. I see a plan. Would take a lot to convince me otherwise.
 
number1fin said:
Are you human ckparrothead?
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I'm convinced he's some type of well spoken football robot.

edit: CK, I base my judgment on his ability to keep his feet moving. I'm going off ONE play, but I believe it was a screen pass or a dump off where he seemed to break through tackles for an 11-12 yard gain. I saw a flash of what I thought was a VERY shifty power back.

But then I saw plays where he wasn't much of a power back AT ALL. You know running backs WAY beyond what I even know what to look for, so I'll defer to you on this, but I'm clouding my judgment with a single play, and a lot of hope. Or is it mental gymnastics? Who knows.
 
The potential is there but for that position I believe it's about more than potential. You have to actually do it. You have to make guys miss, show the vision and the balance and the agility on a play to play basis...and for me he doesn't do that.

I also think he lumbers a bit when trying to make cuts, putting himself off balance...and that strikes me as an ability problem.

---------- Post added at 08:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 PM ----------
Wildbill3 said:
I don't think i'd agree that he was one of the worst rookie running backs last season.
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Which rookies were worse, and why?
 
ckparrothead said:
The potential is there but for that position I believe it's about more than potential. You have to actually do it. You have to make guys miss, show the vision and the balance and the agility on a play to play basis...and for me he doesn't do that.

I also think he lumbers a bit when trying to make cuts, putting himself off balance...and that strikes me as an ability problem.

---------- Post added at 08:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 PM ----------



Which rookies were worse, and why?
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Well 29 running backs were drafted last season not counting undrafted fa and I think dt was in the top six as far ad rookie running back production
 
i don't think i see much ryan grant or james starks in daniel thomas...i disagree with daniel thomas having bad balance he's not over his pads all the time the way you'd like him to be but i don't think a guy that size could make those jump cuts i saw if he had poor balance...thomas has really good feet for his size and pretty good quick acceleration i also think his vision is pretty solid which is something james starks especially lacks...i do agree with the yards after contact stuff though...he needs to generate more after contact...

he's solid as a pass catcher out of the backfield yeah he lacks long speed which is why he's never gonna break 80 yarders off in the pros and for his size i'd like to see him run with more downhill intentions but he wasn't a guy that played to his size in college and i doubt he'll be in the pros...that said in this one cut zone running game it plays to his strengths and i don't think you need to be earl campbell to make hay...he's got the feet and the good short area acceleration when he puts his foot in the ground and heads north south to get to the 2nd level in a hurry...he needs to though make some people miss once he gets there...a stiff arm would be nice also...
 
as for lamar miller i'm not sure i see a lot of yards after contact there either...i see special acceleration and speed into the 2nd level and the ability to turn the corner and he's definitely got make you miss abilities once he gets there...i also agree with ck that he needs to get stronger and work on that body...a little fleshy to me...

i'd like to know why shermans own quentin michael wasn't a camp invite at least...that guys got some tools to work with at the pro level and he was a good fit for that a & m o...
 
hooshoops said:
as for lamar miller i'm not sure i see a lot of yards after contact there either...i see special acceleration and speed into the 2nd level and the ability to turn the corner and he's definitely got make you miss abilities once he gets there...i also agree with ck that he needs to get stronger and work on that body...a little fleshy to me...

i'd like to know why shermans own quentin michael wasn't a camp invite at least...that guys got some tools to work with at the pro level and he was a good fit for that a & m o...
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Do you mean Christine Michael? If so, he is still playing for Texas A&M.
 
Wildbill3 said:
Well 29 running backs were drafted last season not counting undrafted fa and I think dt was in the top six as far ad rookie running back production
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http://www.chinstrapninjas.com/2011-nfl-draft-all-29-runnings-backs-drafted/

below are the top 15 RB's drafted in order, I would say Daniel Thomas faired pretty well in his limited work, no training camp, hamstring injury, useless coaching staff, and considering it was his 3rd season ever playing Running Back

Mark Ingram: 122 carries / 474 yards

Ryan Williams: tore up his knee DNP

Shane Vereen:15 carries / 57 yards

Mikel LeShoure: tore up his knee DNP

Daniel Thomas: 165 carries / 581 yards

Demarco Murray: 164 carries / 897 yards

Stevan Ridley: 87 carries / 441 yards

Alex Green: 3 carries / 11 yards

Roy Helu: 151 carries / 640 yards

Kendall Hunter: 112 carries / 473 yards

Delone Carter: 101 carries / 377 yards

Owen Marecic: 4 carries / 8 yards

Taiwan Jones:16 carries / 73 yards

Bilal Powell: 13 carries / 21 yards

Jamie Harper: 17 carries / 44 yards
 
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