James Walker (ESPN) thinks Miami has a QB controversy

[CANDolphan]

right now it looks like i was wrong about demarco murray also...but i don't think anyone envisioned him being a featured back...most looked at him as a 3rd down back and someone you'd give a few carries to here and there...ran with much better power and strength than i ever saw at oklahoma for dallas last year...i don't think the cowboys thought they were getting a 20 carry a game feature back when they took him in the 3rd round...but we'll see how healthy he stays...my biggest knock with him by far was health...didn't think he'd suit up enough to make it worth it...

I wasn't posting it here, but on another site I frequent, and I think I was DeMarco Murray's biggest cheerleader. I knew he ran too upright, but I saw so much Darren McFadden in him (not just the height, I swear!) I loved him as a prospect.

I also agree with you about Miller. The guy just has such tremendous burst and strength out of arm tackles I can't help but think he'll be great.

 

[phintim]

That's simply not accurate. The bulk of Ingram's work came early in the season. He had 53 carries in weeks 1-4, and 32 carries in weeks 5-8. 85 of his 122 carries (or roughly 70%) came in the first half of the season. Ingram didn't have any carries in the last 4 games, and only had 37 carries total in the final 8 games.

Mark had to deal with injuries same as most everyone else in the league did.


I'm actually sitting directly on the fence with Daniel Thomas. He'll get another chance to show me he's a capable back. I liked Daniel Thomas as a prospect and had a 3rd round grade on him.

What I didn't like was the move to trade up for him when he wasn't even the best back on the board at the time, DeMarco Murray was. I made that point very clear from the start.

In fact, in this draft we have a thread in the draft forum partaining to this year's draft where I made the comment that I would prefer to see Ireland avoid doing something stupid on the 2nd day of the draft again. Wildbill asked me what would I consider a stupid move heading into the 2nd day..... I specifically said that trading up for a runningback who's not even the best back available would be a stupid move in my opinion, just like Ireland had done the draft prior when he traded up for Daniel Thomas..

You can find it all here...

.http://www.finheaven.com/forums/showthread.php?319376-10-names-in-the-next-10-picks-you-want/page9



..low and behold, what did Ireland do... He traded up for a runningback that wasn't even the best runningback available. He traded up for Lamar Miller when Robert Turbin was still available. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Despite anyone who subscribes to the notion that Miami got a 1st round back in Lamar Miller, I vehemently disagree and always have. I believe the NFL essentially saw the same thing I saw in him, which is why he was still on the board in the 4th round.

Thanks for clearing up Ingrams stats for me I basically just follow the phins and not the Saints and I do follow your threads enough to know you know Ingram better than I do. On my part I had not heard of any injuries regarding Ingramt or that he carred the rock at the beginning of the season and not at the end of the saints season. Any knowledge to why Ingram did not carry the rock later in the season?

I understand that you, CK and others have your own rankings (which may be more accurate than the guides and even the GM's and I enjoy reading posts from you guys , especailly about the drafts and the knowledge you bring to the table) still like I said almost every draft guide out there had DT anywhere in the top 3- 5 picks in last years draft plus projected him getting drafted anywhere from the 2nd to the 3rd rounds. I know I may be splitting hairs here a bit but it is not like Ireland traded into the top of the 2nd round to get the guy. Ireland waited until the run on the backs started and I basically believe for whatever it is worth that Ireland put himself in a need position for a back last year and felt like he needed one of those top 5 backs. Guessing here Ireland may have felt that DT was 3rd round material but just could not gamble. As for all those other backs you and CK bring up the rest of the GM's logically felt the same as Ireland because they just did not get drafted until later. Same with Miller and Turbin who both by the way got drafted on the 3rd day of the draft and not the second.

 

[ckparrothead]

Just like basketball sometimes breaks down to make or miss, being a GM is make or miss. I'm not all that obsessed about where certain players are 'rated' or even where they were taken, unless the spot they were taken signals information that I didn't have at my disposal (which happens, often).

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Just like basketball sometimes breaks down to make or miss, being a GM is make or miss. I'm not all that obsessed about where certain players are 'rated' or even where they were taken, unless the spot they were taken signals information that I didn't have at my disposal (which happens, often).

We're in agreement here. When I talk about comparing players as prospects and weighing their value, I only speak in direct reference to my opinion of the players, not where they were 'rated' by anyone else. None of that matters to me.

I evaluate players on what I see and how I see it. My opinion on a prospect is mine and nobody else's... doesn't matter if I'm the only person on the planet that sees it that way. I'll stand by it if that's what I see.

Every coach and personnel executive should be the same way if they have confidence in their ability to evaluate talent. You're going to hit and miss. The important thing is that your evaluation was yours and you stuck by it.

When I critique Ireland's selections and the process, I speak only in terms of how I viewed the prospect and the situation. Same for every pick made by every team in the draft. I couldn't possibly care less how a prospect was 'rated' by draftniks. If I think it's a good pick, I'll say it's a good pick. Likewise if I don't think it was a good pick.

I'm probably more enamored with the process than the results to be honest. I'm a college football guy and always have been. I enjoy analyzing college football players.

Evaluating a kid's talent is the easy part. The part that's impossible is predicting how every single one of these human beings are going to react when they're suddenly making more money than the men coaching 'em. Not even the NFL with all the resources they have at their disposal in terms of pilfering through a young man's background can do it. All you can do is make your best judgement based on the kid's past behavior.

 

[NY8123]

We're in agreement here. When I talk about comparing players as prospects and weighing their value, I only speak in direct reference to my opinion of the players, not where they were 'rated' by anyone else. None of that matters to me.

I evaluate players on what I see and how I see it. My opinion on a prospect is mine and nobody else's... doesn't matter if I'm the only person on the planet that sees it that way. I'll stand by it if that's what I see.

Every coach and personnel executive should be the same way if they have confidence in their ability to evaluate talent. You're going to hit and miss. The important thing is that your evaluation was yours and you stuck by it.

When I critique Ireland's selections and the process, I speak only in terms of how I viewed the prospect and the situation. Same for every pick made by every team in the draft. I couldn't possibly care less how a prospect was 'rated' by draftniks. If I think it's a good pick, I'll say it's a good pick. Likewise if I don't think it was a good pick.

I'm probably more enamored with the process than the results to be honest. I'm a college football guy and always have been. I enjoy analyzing college football players.

Evaluating a kid's talent is the easy part. The part that's impossible is predicting how every single one of these human beings are going to react when they're suddenly making more money than the men coaching 'em. Not even the NFL with all the resources they have at their disposal in terms of pilfering through a young man's background can do it. All you can do is make your best judgement based on the kid's past behavior.

Not to mention Slimm that they are kids. I was a douche when I was fresh out of college but thought nothing of it. At least now at this point in life I know when I am acting like a douche and take responsibility for my douchness.

These kids have so many temptations and the problem is, in your twenties you think you are invincible and the world is yours whenever you want it. About the time you realize you're human, time isn't stopping and that you are only a guest here in this world your playing time has passed you bye. Then your realize there are retributions for your actions and some of those retributions are hard to run from.

 

[Dsteve]

a rookie with a limite training camp and a lingering hamstring issue...I think you need to take a wait and see approach. If he comes on strong, worked out hard in the offseason, he'll have a good year. I agree with all of CKs negatives on thomas but I want to see more and if he can stay healthy.

This orginal article is pretty spot on.

 

[enigmatics]

Not to mention Slimm that they are kids. I was a douche when I was fresh out of college but thought nothing of it. At least now at this point in life I know when I am acting like a douche and take responsibility for my douchness.

These kids have so many temptations and the problem is, in your twenties you think you are invincible and the world is yours whenever you want it. About the time you realize you're human, time isn't stopping and that you are only a guest here in this world your playing time has passed you bye. Then your realize there are retributions for your actions and some of those retributions are hard to run from.

There's also the fact that for many of them, they are no longer the best player on the field, so there's no beating up on lackluster opposing talent.

 

[ckparrothead]

It's certainly not too late for Daniel Thomas and I've never said that. Nobody's cutting him, and nobody should. All this talk about Daniel is just a record of what exactly he was in 2011. It's not a guarantee of what he'll be in 2012 or beyond. As TedSlimmJr put it very to the point, he has a lot of work to do before he even shows himself to be worthy of an NFL roster spot, let alone featured back starting status.

If I'm down on him generally, it's because I've not necessarily liked what I saw since college. I softened on him in his senior season because I saw improvements that made him look more natural as a tailback, but even so it wasn't enough. Not long after the Draft I jumped on with Troy Stradford, Keith Sims and Jesse Agler to talk about my evaluation of the players and I brought up Daniel Thomas' pad level and said that the coaches' task will be to work with him on that pad level. I didn't say it was an easy task. After I got done Troy pretty much told me flat out, as a former NFL running back, by the time you reach this point, your pad level is your pad level. Trying to change your pad level at this point is like trying to teach yourself different posture or to carry yourself a whole different way. I didn't precisely agree with him that it can't be coached at all or changed at all, but at the same time, I thought he brought up a good point. It's like arm strength in a quarterback...improvements may come, but they're pretty minor.

So, we'll see on Daniel Thomas. All we know is what he was in 2011, which was a pretty poor tailback. He could be totally awesome in 2012. We don't know. Personally, I'm not betting on it.

 

[Coach_Rob]

Obviously you've never spoken to NFL veterans about injuries.

yeah because you know me. ive played with and still talk to many nfl players. guys i grew up with. your just another one guy who thinks he knows the ins and outs of the game bc you watch tape. give me a break. yeah ok you watch tape and you talk to people, you got a inside track, but to say that the injuries is a excuse is ignorant as hell. you dont know from first hand experience. i dont care who you talk to or what you do, you can only base your stuff off opinions. if you know the game so well you should know how injuries can effect players. one big thing ive noticed with you is that you put players down that you dont think desereved to be drafted at certain spot or you wanted us to draft a different player or the player had a bad year. for someone who knows so much you sure dont act like it. dt showed flashes of what he could be in the two games he was healthy, but i forgot the injury was an excuse. this will be his year to prove what he has, if healthy

 

[CedarPhin]

No more attacks on each other, take it to the PM or Depths.

 

[Lord Of Miami]

I wasn't posting it here, but on another site I frequent, and I think I was DeMarco Murray's biggest cheerleader. I knew he ran too upright, but I saw so much Darren McFadden in him (not just the height, I swear!) I loved him as a prospect.

I also agree with you about Miller. The guy just has such tremendous burst and strength out of arm tackles I can't help but think he'll be great.

On this site their was me and only a few other people that thought Murry had a chance, I remember telling people... " if all he is, is a 3rd down back and KR than he's worth a 3rd round pick "

He didn't remind me of anyone really, and that's when i know a guy has a shot to be very good player.

 

[GDL FinFan]

1. The Dolphins do have a QB controversy
2. It IS nice that in this case the QBs are getting along well and not sniping at one another
3. It IS appropriate to question Philbin's game management as a rookie coach that never called plays, until he shows he has the skills
4. The offense probably will not score enough points
5. The 6-3 finish does fuel confidence in the locker room that they can win even if our QB is mediocre
6. Something negative I would add that James Walker didn't, is that Miami's RBs unit is weaker for this system than people think

Only time will tell... but I believe our RB's should be adequate for this offense.