Jay Fiedler

CRAZYDOLFAN305

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Jay threw 11 TD passes, had 2 rushing TD's and 4 INT's and 1 fumble down the stretch in the last 7 games. That's a plus 8. Jay Fiedler was also one of the only offensive players to show up in the Baltimore game. Jay got better when the season got more crucial.

What you don't want to see is a QB start of great and then choke when it comes time for the playoffs. Jay got better, not worse.

Also how many of his INT's cost the Dolphins games? Look at the losses and tell me how many of them were directly related to Fiedler's mistakes.

So Jay hasn't shown that he can cut down on the TO's and get better? He didn't turn the ball over at all in the Pats game that was for the division. He threw for 320 yards. What does he have to do to prove to you that he is capable of that? Throw 30 TD's to 0 INT's.

How about Lamar Smith not fumbling when Jay hit him inside the 5 yard line in the Pats game that could have tied the game. Or how about James McKnight catching a perfectly thrown ball at the goaline in the Ravens playoff game.

L. Smith and McKnight turned the ball over in crucial situations that were directly related to 3 or 4 losses last year. It wasn't Jay despite how glaring those 19 INT's looked.

Jay is not the problem. The running game was last year and hopefully RW will provide one along with a revamped OL.

:eat:
 

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I've mentioned the two half season stats more than anyone on this board. I know about the 9 TD's, 2 rushing TD's, 15 INT's and 3 or 4 fumbles in the 1st 9 games. The Dolphins went 6-3 during that span.

I said during that time if Jay doesn't cut down on the TO's they are going to come back to haunt him and the team. He did cut down on TO's big time.

You mentioned the 49ers game. If you watched the game and point to Jay's TO's which was 3 INT's and 1 fumble as the reason the Dolphins lost, you weren't watching. No pass protection, 6 sacks allowed and Jay rarely gets sacked, no running game and no run defense. The Dolphins got beaten in every phase of that game.

He played well when the division was on the line against the Pats. You mentioned what happened.

Did you forget in the Ravens playoff game that Gadsden barely played and Chambers was out. With that OL all banged up against the Ravens defense, L.Smith doing nothing and the starting WR's not playing, you're going to point to Fiedler's stats in that game?

Dude, that is the perfect example of how stats can be misleading. All I'm saying is that Fiedler's TO's were not as costly as some fans seem to think they were.

The 1st Jets game: the Dolphins lead 17-0 at the half. It should have been 24-0 if L.Smith didn't fumble inside the Jets 5 heading for the endzone. The Jets come out in the 2nd half with a quick scoring drive. L.Smith fumbles on the 1st play inside the Dolphins 20 and the Jets get another quick score. The score quickly becomes 17-14. The Dolphins were already behind 21-17 when Jay threw 2 INT's late in the game. One was on a play that the Jets read perfectly on the Gadsden fade, and the other was a long bomb intended for Chambers.

I used that example to show you how 2 of his INT's did not result in losing that game. That game should have never been that close had L.Smith not fumbled twice leading to 1 less TD for the Dolphins and 1 more TD for the Jets. The Dolphins should have won 24-14.

So what I got out of your response was if Jay doesn't play well, the Dolphins lose. That's a pretty good complement.

The run defense and the lack of a running game cost Miami their losses last year. We all know that the OL was decimated. But this average journeyman QB was suppose to overcome the lack of a good OL and running game and set the world on fire. That's another complement. At least I can admit that other areas of the team were the bigger problems.

Look at what the coaches addressed in the offseason: DT Chester and Ricky at RB as well as some new OL. Not a new QB.

Marino wouldn't have been able to win with this team last year either. The OL would have gotten him killed. Jay kept things competitive with his legs and people ignore that. It makes me laugh.

So basically what you're saying is that Jay turning the ball over only 5 times in the last 7 games means nothing because he can't beat a playoff team, not the Dolphins, just Jay?

How'd Peyton Manning do last year? What was his problem?
 

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A couple of comments regarding the subject of this thread:

--I believe JF in 2002 will be more like the QB of the 2nd half of the 2001 season than the one of the first half of the season. I think he'll greatly benefit from a healthier OL, a better RB, a better OC, and a healthier WR corps.

--Fiedler's contract was for 5 years at $24.5 million, however he could be released as soon as after this year (not that I'm predicted or proposing that it happen). He received a signing bonus of $4 million, and is due a roster bonus of $1.25 million in March of 2003. His salary for this year is $525,000. For 2003, it is $725,000. Therefore, if the Dolphins decide that Fiedler's not their QB and cut him after this season but before his roster bonus is due, they would experience a cap hit of $3.2 million (or the other 80% of his signing bonus). That would be in lieu of keeping him for another year, paying him his salary and his roster bonus (which would be spread out over the remaining 4 years of his contract), which would give JF a cap figure of $1.8625 million for the 2003 season. If effect, we would take an additional cap hit of $1.3375 million to release him before his roster bonus is due next March instead of keeping him for the 2003 season. For the first two seasons, JF will make $6.525 million. Releasing him after that season would make the Dolphins suffer a cap hit of $2.4 million for the 2004 season. If JF does not become the QB that takes the team deep into the playoffs, then look for the Dolphins to either release him after the 2003 season or to re-negotiate the contract. If JF does develop into an elite QB, then he'll earn the remaining $17.975 million over the final three years of the contract in roster bonuses and salaries. So, the big money and big commitment in this contract come after year 2, which is after the 2003 season. For the next two years, JF is earning decent-but-not-tremendous money, and the team can decide they want to go in another direction after either year (but would take less of a cap hit if they decide to do so after the 2003 season).
 

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All I ask of people that get involved in my comments is to know their stuff and not be ignorant!! First of all, Fiedler's rotator cuff was torn the week after the Bills game, against TB, not before. Secondly, He hasn't had a real running game of which to speak, although Lamar posted good numbers prior to last season, he was very inconsistent. In Marino's defense, he didn't have any WR threat's of which to speak his last few years with the team nor did Fiedler, but Fiedler still managed to produce an AFC East championship where Marino didn't with basically the same lack of O.

No one here is full of dillusions that Fiedler is a better passer or will be a better passer than Marino, but I would like to believe he brings a hell of a lot more to the table than Marino did his last few years in terms of running a play book. Fiedlers 1st game against Seattle he ran a bootleg....My first thought, haven't seen that play in 18 years. Fiedler's 1st QB sneak...haven't seen that play in 18 years. You need a mobile QB to succeed in today's NFL. Notice how no one is ever passing for 4,000 yards anymore ( Except Warner) when it used to be a regular thing. The zone blitz has complicated the game and offenses have reacted by running the ball more to the open gaps. Hence, more the need than ever to have a reliable, effective running game.

Regarding Fiedler's picks, Yes he made some bad decisions last year and he threw 21 picks but 13 were tipped by a Miami WR. That is a Fact. Peyton Manning threw almost 30 picks last year but I bet you think he's better than Fiedler don't you? Anyone who usually makes negative comments in this room usually makes staements such as he's no Marino or I can't believe we replaced Marino with this guy. Since this is the first time I've seen your name in the room, and since your probably pretending to be someone else, that's where the Marinoisms come from. Fiedler is this teams starter bottom line. As far as the original argument which was This is Fiedler's Make or Break Year, any true Dolphin fan knows thats completely bull****. Last year WAS his make or break year or Miami wouldn't have signed him to a long term deal. If you don't agree with that or don't even know the subject than your dead wrong too for even chiming in!!!!!
 

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Most good or great QB's don't have to play in playoff games with 3 of their starting OL missing and 4 of their 5 WR's listed as doubtful on the injury list on top of missing 2 of their best defensive players while the other one is playing 50%. No offense Dude but I remember Joe Montana having a 5 interception game in the playoffs with a very unhealthy 49'er team ( which resulted in a niner shutout) along with much esteemed Brett Favre throwing 5 picks ( 3 for TD's) last year without any serious injuries of which to speak on his offense. 1 Player is not accountable for a team worth of mistakes. Fielder was put in a very bad position in the 49'er game in that the niners knew he had to throw every down for 3 quarters. Miami's offense wasn't designed to do that. You point out the error's but there is a reason for them. Fiedler had no one to throw to in the playoff game except McKnight who isn't the second coming of Jerry Rice. That game isn't even a blip on my radar screen as I told everyone who would listen to me Miami had no chance to win that game. Injuries ARE part of the game but in Miami's case last year they were down right ridiculous. Please know your ****.
 

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The 49ers game is one of the situations about Fiedler I mentioned previously, you have to be able to lean on your QB to carry the team in times of crisis, and Fiedler showed in that game he cannot do that against good teams or in big games. It's not an excuse that Fiedler couldn't move the ball because of whatever. He's supposed to be the starting QB for us, so he MUST make plays when we need them and MOVE THE TEAM, PERIOD!!! He has to be able to step up when the running game isn't working, that's what the GREAT QBs do, and a skill good QBs should improve on, and the Niner game showed that Jay couldn't do that. The injury excuses, no running game excuse, are just that, excuses! We haven't be able to run in forever, we are seemingly always hit by the injury bug, so why don't we just stop playing until we get our team exactly as we want it? That's not going to happen, so we have to win with what we have and if those players can't produce, then why should I show blind faith in them? You're a player or you're not, and Fiedler has to show me that he can play smart, consistent football, especially against the good teams, and cut down on the turnovers.
A lot of Jay's INTs were indeed costly. In the first Jets game, Jay's first INT on the pass intended for Gadsden on the fade in the endzone did indeed cost us the game. While I wholeheartedly agree that Lamar Smith not holding on to the football contributed to the Jets taking the lead 21-17, Jay's pick sealed the defeat. If you remember the whole play, it was a fade to Gadsden that Fiedler was supposed to throw the ball away if the safety was drifting over to double Gadsden, because it was only first down in four down territory at the six. Lo and behold, the play is run, the safety drifts over to Gadsden, yet Fiedler threw it into double coverage anyway! Pick...game essentially over. Wannstedt even said Jay made a bad decision and should have thrown the ball away. The second INT was costly also as Fiedler undershot Chambers. Here's proof in quotes from articles about the Jets game:
"As a result, the Dolphins (3-2) enter their bye week not only in second place in the AFC East but as a team teetering on the brink of turmoil. Several defensive players questioned whether their teammates had become too complacent toward losing to New York, while two more crucial turnovers by quarterback Jay Fiedler raises the question of how much more patience Wannstedt can have before making a change."
"Fiedler moved the Dolphins in position to win the game with 1:17 remaining. But on first-and-goal from the Jets 6, Fiedler fired a pass into double coverage intended for wide receiver Oronde Gadsden. The ball was deflected in the air and snagged by Jones to end the scoring threat.
Fiedler had another chance after the Dolphins' defense forced a New York punt, but a long throw to wide receiver Chris Chambers was intercepted by Jets strong safety Victor Green with 28 seconds left."
"Fiedler’s first interception was a killer. The second one hurt, but not nearly as much as that first one, which seemed to be an ill-advised attempt to fit a ball to Oronde Gadsden in the end zone where he was double covered. As for Fiedler’s numbers (23 of 34, 213 yards, one touchdown, two interceptions) they weren't very good. He completed 67.6 percent of his passes, but those passes didn't stretch the field a whole lot. They also didn't put the Jets in fear."
About when I said Jay's last seven games meant nothing, I meant that the "momentum" he supposedly built from those games heading into the playoff game didn't mean much because he was only 15-28, 122 yds, and 1 INT (and for the umpteenth time, was not his fault). Yes the WHOLE team did not play well, but Jay did not move the offense virtually all day.
And about Manning, he is worlds better than Jay Fiedler, anybody that is a fan of football can see that, and I'm sure Colts fans are saying that he has to play better this upcoming year too.
 

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okay...... your quote was "Its the nature of the position, QB's get glory when they win and get blame when they lose"

so how bout giving Fiedler glory for putting up a 22-10 record as a starter in his career. take away the Jets games and 22-6!!!

Peyton Manning threw 30+ INT's even with a great Oline, great TE's, the best reciever in the AFC, and a 1000 yard rusher.

thats pretty pathetic if you ask me.

and you mention too about Fiedler not playing well against great teams..... well again take away the Jets losses which werent his fault..... it wasn't him calling a rollout on 4th down for the 10th time in 2 weeks, it wasn't him bobbling a simple screen pass and letting it get picked off for a TD, it wasn't him blocking Abraham.. take away the Jets games and he's lost 3 games a year against good teams.

Peyton Manning against good teams last year?? how bout against our team? how did he do? I think 2 TD's and 7 INT's and two losses.

how bout Garcia against our defense? 150 measley yards. longest pass to Owens for 17 yards I think.

Brady.... how did he do against our defense? went 1-1 against us and got hammered in one of those games, had 80 yards total passing. in game 2 didnt do anything either.

those are the facts.
 

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I think what Norv saw on film last year with Jay was a lot of plays that he will not run. Those close to the LOS screens and picks. Norv has a knack for getting people open in his system which is set up by the run. He will allow Jay more space to throw. Gailey had Jay throwing a lot to James "I don't hold onto the ball too well" McKnight too often in dangerous zones.

Jay can throw the ball down the field accurately. I remember a pass he threw to Gadsden where it couldn't have been more on time. He hit Gadsden in stride for a 50+ yarder, but Gadsden allowed the defender to catch him from behind and strip the ball. It would have been a 70 yard TD if it was Chambers. Jay will be more in sync with Chambers this year.

Another pass was when he hit Minor down the seem for a 30+ yarder. He put the ball in the only place it could have been. Look at some of the passes that Jay threw to Chambers. He helped Chambers have the 4th or 5th best rookie season in NFL history for a WR. Chambers lead the NFL in YPC at 18.4 I think.

Some of those throws that Chambers had to make acrobatic catches on were called like that. Put the ball in a place where Chambers can use his jumping ability to get his hands on the ball before the defender could. When Favre does that "he's amazing", when Fiedler does that "it's Chambers saved his ***". That's not how it goes. How did Jerry Rice make all those great catches if Montana and Young were always throwing perfect passes? Sometimes a receiver has to make a play. The QB has to just get it there.

Before anyone thinks I'm comparing Fiedler to Montana, Young and Favre, I'm not. Before Jay can ever be mentioned in the same breath with any of the greats, he has to win a Super Bowl and be the MVP.

All I'm saying is don't be surprised if Fiedler has a good season this year. I think Norv's system plays right into Jay's strengths, not his weaknesses.

The running game makes the difference.
 

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The running game is the bottom line. If the Dolphins running game can get 7-8 yards on 1st and 2nd down consistently, that puts the offense in 3rd and 3 and 2. That allows the offense to remain in the Pro Set and have the use of the complete playbook. You can run again, run Minor on a draw or counter, throw short hooks to the WR's, quick outs to the TE ala Novacek or to the HB's and FB's.

The Cowboys used to control the ball and clock, eat up 1st downs and set up big plays. They scored points and beat up opposing defenses. Their defense was always rested and playing at full speed.

The Dolphins finding the right combination of OL and getting RW going is the key to their season. This is the difference in 11-5 and a 1st or 2nd round exit and being an elite team contending for a chamionship.

It's late in the 4th qtr and your offense has to go 80 yards for the winning score. Do they get the job done running the football and keeping their passing game open, or do they become one-dimensional and put too much pressure on the passing game? That's where championships are won. You have to make teams respect your running game.
 

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To quote my long time friend Dan Marino "You've got to have velocity on the football to get it past the NFLs linebackers and defensive backs if you wanna be big time in this league". Sometimes Fiedler has mustard on the ball and sometimes it looks like he's throwing a Nerf football. That lack of velocity contributed to some of his receivers dropping the pass and it being intercepted
 

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Fiedler improved his velocity last year with an off-season conditioning program. Jay got bigger and stronger than he was in 2000. Yes there is a limit on how much physically better he can get, but I will argue that having 2 seasons under his belt will contribute greatly to him becoming a better QB in 2002. QB's need reps guys. He has experience, has proven that he can win and his team believes in him. Fiedler as a starting QB knows nothing less than a winning season and the playoffs.

Part of Jay's problems last year was that Gailey attemtping to make up for a lack of running game, was calling a lot more WR screens and picks in traffic. That's what was scaring the crap out of me last year. Jay doesn't scare me when he's in the pocket looking downfield or rolling out or scrambling, it's making him throw 8-10 passes close to the LOS.

Any QB could have balls deflected for INT's with that many attemtps in that range. A lot of Jay's INT's came off of plays such as this. He doesn't throw horrible balls downfield. His deep balls that get picked off are not killer INT's. It would be nice if he could get more in there, but those can be looked at as a lost down and a punt, because those INT's didn't usually result in a score for the other team.

Jay Fiedler threw 9 TD's and 15 INT's and had 2 rushing TD's in the first 9 games last year. The Dolphins were 6-3. In his last 7 games Jay threw 11 TD's and 4 INT's and had 2 rushing TD's and the Dolphins went 5-2. Jay is not the issue, a running game is.

The Dolphins didn't have a 2nd half collapse last year, they went 5-3 including losing to the Jets again, a good 49ers team and the Pats who eventually won the Super Bowl. Those losses were because they couldn't run the football. They got beaten badly by the Ravens because their DL couldn't hold up against the run and they couldn't run the ball. Change those 2 things which Miami has tried to do in the offseason, and the outcome is very different.

If the Dolphins can pound it for at least 130 per game, this team will be a very tough team to beat and Jay will make plays.
 

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I am tired of arguing about fiedler. WE will Go to the superbowl this year. Plain and simple!!. It's writen already. I can't think of a team in the AFC that is better than the dolphins right now.
 
J

jd13

im not a big fiedler fan but i agree with you that he had a good 2nd half of the year...he will also benefit from having a better ol and ricky as well as norv turner who has made pro bowlers out of gus ferotte,brad johnson and trent green...
 

CRAZYDOLFAN305

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How many know-it-alls came to this board saying that Fiedler doesn't fit in Norv Turner's offense blah blah blah because he doesn't have the vertical arm etc. Meanwhile Norv watched film on Fiedler and said he was impressed. Then gave the thumbs up for the Dolphins to sign him to a new contract. Mike Shanahan and Tom Coughlin also think highly of Fiedler.

Throwing a deep pass isn't always about throwing the ball 70 yards. It has more to do with timing and setting the play up. Having a chance to play with the same receivers for more than one season helps too.

The Dolphins OL struggled last year and look at how Jay improvised to help win games. Some of you guys just don't get it.
 
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