Jimmy Johnson's Not Sure About Kyler Murray, But Loves Tua Tagovailoa | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Jimmy Johnson's Not Sure About Kyler Murray, But Loves Tua Tagovailoa

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This is Dolphin related, Johnson talks about Miami.

But with the Dolphins in an obvious transition phase, Johnson said he wasn’t sure if waiting a year for a Tagovailoa is the right play — which also assumes much losing to be position to do so.

“It depends on who is available [this year],” Johnson said. “If you think they can win for you, [take one]. Putting it off a year is one thing — I don’t know if that’s the way to go if the right guy is there.”

ProFootballTalk: Jimmy Johnson's not sure about Kyler Murray, but loves Tua Tagovailoa
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...-about-kyler-murray-but-loves-tua-tagovailoa/
 
That's my view on it as well. I would love for Tua to be a Dolphin in 2020.

But if Murray is available at 13 draft him.

If Murray doesn't deliver as a rookie, maybe Miami ends up drafting both players.

I'm hoping Miami at least gets one.
 
Jimmy Johnson is a dinosaur. The new age coaches will get it. Murray is legit
 
Jimmy Johnson is a dinosaur. The new age coaches will get it. Murray is legit

You may be right, but the logic is sound to doubt a sub 5 '10 QB will be successful in this league in the long run.

Sure the gun is used now more than ever and you can cater an offense to his strengths, but height always matters in the long run.

I would compare the QB position to any of the 5 positions on a basketball court.

There will always be really good/great miniature basketball players like AI and even RW, but the best players will ALWAYS be tall like MJ, Kobe, Lebron, Brady, Manning, etc., because good height (and length in BBall, probably hand size in football) makes everything easier.

It will be very interesting when we get his official height measurements at the combine, I always felt like this piece of information is what made Washington make that stupid trade for RG3 (he was taller than expected imo).
 
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Murray was hood in college but the NFL is way different. I would trade back and acquire more picks.
 
That's my view on it as well. I would love for Tua to be a Dolphin in 2020.

But if Murray is available at 13 draft him.

If Murray doesn't deliver as a rookie, maybe Miami ends up drafting both players.

I'm hoping Miami at least gets one.
Murray won't be there at 13
 
I mean it's tough to go against the guy but height will be a concern to some teams. I think he could be good with an innovative OC. RPO, read option and roll outs could be his bread and butter early on.
 
Jimmy Johnson declares that Kyler Murray could get hurt in the 2nd game of the season because of his stature.

He then goes on to hold up Tua Tagovailoa as the paragon of QB value.

This is contradictory, at best.

Kyler Murray made it through 14 games (including the 4th quarters) without taking a single hurt. Never missed a game, never even heard about any health issues he was battling.

Tua Tagovailoa couldn't make it through the season (only playing 3 quarters a game) without taking a nasty ankle injury that forced him to undergo a somewhat controversial in-season surgery.

And Tua by the way, is also "very small" by conventional QB standards.

It's very strange indeed. Classicists like Bill Parcells have long acknowledged that durability is one of the most important traits in a running back, and that it can be found in runners of all shapes and sizes because it's just a special skill that they have, a la Curtis Martin.

And yet, when it comes to the quarterback, everything is about that extra width of a penny, those extra 7 lbs. There's no regard whatsoever for durability as being an idiosyncratic PLAYER trait, skill-related, rather than being size-related.

It's silly. And it's stupid.
 
I definitely respect the people out there that say Tua Tagovailoa is superior to Kyler Murray on talent, his prospects for the future, etc. I get it.

But the people that hold up their comparative sizes and make a prediction of durability based on that, are misguided. Full stop.
 
Jimmy made a very good point about offensive line and how it can be dependent on the quarterback. It's the same point I've made all along in regards to the type of quarterback Miami needs to be prioritizing. They need a guy who is prepared to move and deal with pressure behind something less than a bomb shelter up front. Those guys are out there. Miami has never attempted to look in that direction at the QB position. If you don't have a quarterback that's prepared to deal with pressure, you're going to have the 9 sack games that Tannehill has. No quarterback should ever be taking 9 sack games in the NFL. I don't care if you're playing behind nothing but 5 Fathead decals.

However, I also agree that on it's face, it can seem a bit contrary to be skiddish on Kyler Murray's durability while at the same time mentioning Tua and not having the same concern. Durability isn't a size thing, it's a player thing. Derrick Henry is durable for his size. Bo Scarbrough was not. Many smaller backs like Warrick Dunn were more durable than many bigger backs. The same applies for quarterbacks and/or any other position.

Although I think if you're going to get into that discussion in regards to Murray and Tua in terms of durability, you have to get very detailed with it. There's a lot of details that apply and you can take it as deep as you want to. I don't think Jimmy was really trying to go that deep here. Murray never really got hit at Oklahoma. The quality, style, and talent of the defenses within the Big-12, along with the caliber of his offensive line benefited him in regards to not taking the type of hits from the caliber of defensive players week after week that Tua and other SEC West quarterbacks face on a regular basis. You just don't see him under that type of pressure.

Murray didn't really get hit in a game until he faced Alabama. His offensive lineman didn't know how to react to the QB being hit like that because they'd never dealt with it before. They were losing their composure early in the game because of it. By the way, this wasn't a typical Alabama defense. They were missing their best pass rusher (Terrell Lewis out all season) and their best CB (Trevon Diggs lost for the season after the Arkansas game). In Diggs case, replaced by the worst cornerback I've ever seen suit up for Alabama. This 2018 Bama defense was one of the worst in terms of points and yardage given up since Saban has been at Alabama. Only the 2014 defense that gave up nearly 250 rushing yards to Zeke Elliott in the playoffs is even comparable.

Mayfield never really got hit either at Oklahoma. He didn't face any pressure until the 2nd half of the playoff game vs. Georgia when Kirby and staff decided to make some changes and bring pressure. They had no choice. It wasn't a gamble at that point. They had to.

On the other hand, some of the hits Tua received were just awkward in terms of getting his lower legs and ankles twisted underneath himself and the weight of two or three tacklers. Injury was bound to happen to anybody sustaining those exact hits. Then getting it stepped on in the exact same spot by his offensive lineman was fairly unpredictable. But I will say that the biggest concern I have with Tua is he has to learn how to protect himself better. He has to learn it's ok to check it down or throw it in the stands instead of hanging in there too long waiting for the homerun every single play.

Lastly - and this is something myself and Awsi Dooger has pointed out many times - quarterbacks get hit a lot more often and a lot more severe in college, particularly the SEC, than they do in the NFL now. The rules to protect the quarterbacks like they do in the NFL aren't in place in college. Just in terms of taking hits and the type of hits, it bodes well for every single quarterback making the transition from college to the next level. Regardless of size.

If Murray doesn't find success at the next level, I can't see it being due to size. It'll be due to his commitment over the long haul when things get tough. Which applies to every other quarterback also.
 
Jimmy made a very good point about offensive line and how it can be dependent on the quarterback. It's the same point I've made all along in regards to the type of quarterback Miami needs to be prioritizing. They need a guy who is prepared to move and deal with pressure behind something less than a bomb shelter up front. Those guys are out there. Miami has never attempted to look in that direction at the QB position. If you don't have a quarterback that's prepared to deal with pressure, you're going to have the 9 sack games that Tannehill has. No quarterback should ever be taking 9 sack games in the NFL. I don't care if you're playing behind nothing but 5 Fathead decals.

However, I also agree that on it's face, it can seem a bit contrary to be skiddish on Kyler Murray's durability while at the same time mentioning Tua and not having the same concern. Durability isn't a size thing, it's a player thing. Derrick Henry is durable for his size. Bo Scarbrough was not. Many smaller backs like Warrick Dunn were more durable than many bigger backs. The same applies for quarterbacks and/or any other position.

Although I think if you're going to get into that discussion in regards to Murray and Tua in terms of durability, you have to get very detailed with it. There's a lot of details that apply and you can take it as deep as you want to. I don't think Jimmy was really trying to go that deep here. Murray never really got hit at Oklahoma. The quality, style, and talent of the defenses within the Big-12, along with the caliber of his offensive line benefited him in regards to not taking the type of hits from the caliber of defensive players week after week that Tua and other SEC West quarterbacks face on a regular basis. You just don't see him under that type of pressure.

Murray didn't really get hit in a game until he faced Alabama. His offensive lineman didn't know how to react to the QB being hit like that because they'd never dealt with it before. They were losing their composure early in the game because of it. By the way, this wasn't a typical Alabama defense. They were missing their best pass rusher (Terrell Lewis out all season) and their best CB (Trevon Diggs lost for the season after the Arkansas game). In Diggs case, replaced by the worst cornerback I've ever seen suit up for Alabama. This 2018 Bama defense was one of the worst in terms of points and yardage given up since Saban has been at Alabama. Only the 2014 defense that gave up nearly 250 rushing yards to Zeke Elliott in the playoffs is even comparable.

Mayfield never really got hit either at Oklahoma. He didn't face any pressure until the 2nd half of the playoff game vs. Georgia when Kirby and staff decided to make some changes and bring pressure. They had no choice. It wasn't a gamble at that point. They had to.

On the other hand, some of the hits Tua received were just awkward in terms of getting his lower legs and ankles twisted underneath himself and the weight of two or three tacklers. Injury was bound to happen to anybody sustaining those exact hits. Then getting it stepped on in the exact same spot by his offensive lineman was fairly unpredictable. But I will say that the biggest concern I have with Tua is he has to learn how to protect himself better. He has to learn it's ok to check it down or throw it in the stands instead of hanging in there too long waiting for the homerun every single play.

Lastly - and this is something myself and Awsi Dooger has pointed out many times - quarterbacks get hit a lot more often and a lot more severe in college, particularly the SEC, than they do in the NFL now. The rules to protect the quarterbacks like they do in the NFL aren't in place in college. Just in terms of taking hits and the type of hits, it bodes well for every single quarterback making the transition from college to the next level. Regardless of size.

If Murray doesn't find success at the next level, I can't see it being due to size. It'll be due to his commitment over the long haul when things get tough. Which applies to every other quarterback also.

Definitely the most significant concern about him.

Things get hard. You can't run away to baseball just because it got hard.

Although this risk is lessened by baseball's obsessive age-ism.
 
Jimmy made a very good point about offensive line and how it can be dependent on the quarterback. It's the same point I've made all along in regards to the type of quarterback Miami needs to be prioritizing. They need a guy who is prepared to move and deal with pressure behind something less than a bomb shelter up front. Those guys are out there. Miami has never attempted to look in that direction at the QB position. If you don't have a quarterback that's prepared to deal with pressure, you're going to have the 9 sack games that Tannehill has. No quarterback should ever be taking 9 sack games in the NFL. I don't care if you're playing behind nothing but 5 Fathead decals.

However, I also agree that on it's face, it can seem a bit contrary to be skiddish on Kyler Murray's durability while at the same time mentioning Tua and not having the same concern. Durability isn't a size thing, it's a player thing. Derrick Henry is durable for his size. Bo Scarbrough was not. Many smaller backs like Warrick Dunn were more durable than many bigger backs. The same applies for quarterbacks and/or any other position.

Although I think if you're going to get into that discussion in regards to Murray and Tua in terms of durability, you have to get very detailed with it. There's a lot of details that apply and you can take it as deep as you want to. I don't think Jimmy was really trying to go that deep here. Murray never really got hit at Oklahoma. The quality, style, and talent of the defenses within the Big-12, along with the caliber of his offensive line benefited him in regards to not taking the type of hits from the caliber of defensive players week after week that Tua and other SEC West quarterbacks face on a regular basis. You just don't see him under that type of pressure.

Murray didn't really get hit in a game until he faced Alabama. His offensive lineman didn't know how to react to the QB being hit like that because they'd never dealt with it before. They were losing their composure early in the game because of it. By the way, this wasn't a typical Alabama defense. They were missing their best pass rusher (Terrell Lewis out all season) and their best CB (Trevon Diggs lost for the season after the Arkansas game). In Diggs case, replaced by the worst cornerback I've ever seen suit up for Alabama. This 2018 Bama defense was one of the worst in terms of points and yardage given up since Saban has been at Alabama. Only the 2014 defense that gave up nearly 250 rushing yards to Zeke Elliott in the playoffs is even comparable.

Mayfield never really got hit either at Oklahoma. He didn't face any pressure until the 2nd half of the playoff game vs. Georgia when Kirby and staff decided to make some changes and bring pressure. They had no choice. It wasn't a gamble at that point. They had to.

On the other hand, some of the hits Tua received were just awkward in terms of getting his lower legs and ankles twisted underneath himself and the weight of two or three tacklers. Injury was bound to happen to anybody sustaining those exact hits. Then getting it stepped on in the exact same spot by his offensive lineman was fairly unpredictable. But I will say that the biggest concern I have with Tua is he has to learn how to protect himself better. He has to learn it's ok to check it down or throw it in the stands instead of hanging in there too long waiting for the homerun every single play.

Lastly - and this is something myself and Awsi Dooger has pointed out many times - quarterbacks get hit a lot more often and a lot more severe in college, particularly the SEC, than they do in the NFL now. The rules to protect the quarterbacks like they do in the NFL aren't in place in college. Just in terms of taking hits and the type of hits, it bodes well for every single quarterback making the transition from college to the next level. Regardless of size.

If Murray doesn't find success at the next level, I can't see it being due to size. It'll be due to his commitment over the long haul when things get tough. Which applies to every other quarterback also.

Good points, and in that respect my personal opinion is that Jacoby Brissett is worth a look see (also Tyrod Taylor) for that mobile QB who can sling the rock. Brissett/NC State vs FSU (not sure what year) was to me a great example of watching a QB run/scramble for his life and still make things happen. I'd like to see Kyler Murray come to Miami, and who knows what we can do in the 2020 draft, but to me Brissett 2020 and Taylor 2019 are viable options.
 
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