Jordan Love vs Kent St Bowl Game

[SCOTTY]

The New York Giants are the team to watch, regarding trading its #4 pick. Gettleman has already stated, he'd like a to get back his 3rd rd pick back he traded to the Jets. They are open for business. Any team looking to jump Miami is going to call the Giants. I know the Dolphins have an enormous about of assets, but I'm not convinced they will get into a bidding war for the Giants pick.

I hope not. For me just let the board fall where it falls. If anything trade down.

 

[NBP81]

Although if I’m Grier and I just saw what happened to the Cleveland gm I’m trying to keep moving the ride or die qb decision as long as I can.

Nothing cuts your head off faster than the qb position.

I just don’t buy that Ross is gonna let these guys have another get out of jail free season with regards to qb.

I think Grier would look just as bad if he were to pass on a QB only to have him become great somewhere else. That has already happened once on his watch.

 

[hoops]

I think Grier would look just as bad if he were to pass on a QB only to have him become great somewhere else. That has already happened once on his watch.

That’s true too.

 

[Rev Kev]

Step back for a moment and consider the scouting playbook on drafting QBs, e.g. the Bill Parcells rules for drafting a QB.

Jordan Love is a college graduate, a three year starter, has started 32 games and won 21 of them, has a 2:1 ratio of touchdowns to interceptions, and a career completion north of 60 percent. He's got a perfect, over-top, professional stroke. He's got ideal arm strength/arm talent. He's 6'4" & 225 lbs.

I realize full and well that the Bill Parcells rules were always more conceptual than an actual formula, and that many will argue them outdated, for good reason. The point I'm making is that the scouting community are still largely operating off the same handbook they were when Parcells developed those rules. When the evaluation gets kicked up to the General Manager/Executive level, that is when you see more innovation and outside-the-box thinking applied to the reports provided by the plug-n-play folks doing the standardized groundwork. But it won't be necessary for a GM to think outside the box with Jordan Love. He checks all the boxes already.

Jordan Love will be appreciated by the NFL more than the folks in the media and fan bases who saw him play one or two games in 2019, after having lost virtually every receiver, runner, blocker, and coach that helped him have a top notch 2018. Virtually. Every. One of them.

The gaps in Jordan Love's quarterback education showed up in 2019. That was the main takeaway. You saw stronger glimpses of what he doesn't know, and what he doesn't know that he doesn't know.

But this is a guy who has been through more personal and professional adversity than most, is an unquestioned leader on the team (whereas people validly question Justin Herbert in this regard), has every tool you could ask for, a fully professional stroke, has shown you that he can put together consistency in the right circumstances, and has exposure to NFL route concepts.

I would absolutely take Tua Tagovailoa above Jordan Love, even to the point of trading assets, for the luxury of sleeping warm and cozy at night, fearing injury a lot more than the inability to catch on. Injury fears are a fact of life in the NFL, ever-present. Jake Long was a guy that Jeff Ireland once said he drafted in part because, "you can't hurt him with an axe". His career fizzled quickly...because of injuries.

But if I can't make Tua happen, I would be lucky to take a shot on Jordan Love.

Yes, but not at five

 

[Lovethefish]

is the thought still that Fromm will go back to school?

If so I full on believe that Miami will have one of tua, love, or Herbert in Miami in 2020.

They plucking a qb I don’t care what kinda noise Grier talks during the end season presser.

Although if I’m Grier and I just saw what happened to the Cleveland gm I’m trying to keep moving the ride or die qb decision as long as I can.

Nothing cuts your head off faster than the qb position.

I just don’t buy that Ross is gonna let these guys have another get out of jail free season with regards to qb.

Cause that’s what fitz is. A free pass.

Drafting a QB is a free pass for next year.
Going with Fitz and building team your mandate must be playoffs.
You can’t give a free pass if you allow GM to retain vet QB- with 5 premium picks and 100 mill in space.

 

[Sirspud]

Josh Allen's reputation is going to shift one way or another based on these playoffs. Fairly or unfairly, that's the reality. He's got a road game but it's considered basically equal teams. The other quarterback had a major playoff failure last season so he's going to start hearing grumblings if it happens again.

Allen is so talented I can't see Buffalo getting impatient with him unless he had a truly miserable season. He does just enough in key games to make you think that extra 5% might be available, as hoops posted.

I don't put any stock in Darnold's late season. Same thing happened last year. He's got to prove something when the games are still meaningful.

The book on anyone isn't written in the second year, but if Allen doesn't show up in a playoff game, can we really say that he shows up in big games outside of that Thanksgiving win versus a tumbling Dallas team?

 

[Sirspud]

Step back for a moment and consider the scouting playbook on drafting QBs, e.g. the Bill Parcells rules for drafting a QB.

Jordan Love is a college graduate, a three year starter, has started 32 games and won 21 of them, has a 2:1 ratio of touchdowns to interceptions, and a career completion north of 60 percent. He's got a perfect, over-top, professional stroke. He's got ideal arm strength/arm talent. He's 6'4" & 225 lbs.

I realize full and well that the Bill Parcells rules were always more conceptual than an actual formula, and that many will argue them outdated, for good reason. The point I'm making is that the scouting community are still largely operating off the same handbook they were when Parcells developed those rules. When the evaluation gets kicked up to the General Manager/Executive level, that is when you see more innovation and outside-the-box thinking applied to the reports provided by the plug-n-play folks doing the standardized groundwork. But it won't be necessary for a GM to think outside the box with Jordan Love. He checks all the boxes already.

Jordan Love will be appreciated by the NFL more than the folks in the media and fan bases who saw him play one or two games in 2019, after having lost virtually every receiver, runner, blocker, and coach that helped him have a top notch 2018. Virtually. Every. One of them.

The gaps in Jordan Love's quarterback education showed up in 2019. That was the main takeaway. You saw stronger glimpses of what he doesn't know, and what he doesn't know that he doesn't know.

But this is a guy who has been through more personal and professional adversity than most, is an unquestioned leader on the team (whereas people validly question Justin Herbert in this regard), has every tool you could ask for, a fully professional stroke, has shown you that he can put together consistency in the right circumstances, and has exposure to NFL route concepts.

I would absolutely take Tua Tagovailoa above Jordan Love, even to the point of trading assets, for the luxury of sleeping warm and cozy at night, fearing injury a lot more than the inability to catch on. Injury fears are a fact of life in the NFL, ever-present. Jake Long was a guy that Jeff Ireland once said he drafted in part because, "you can't hurt him with an axe". His career fizzled quickly...because of injuries.

But if I can't make Tua happen, I would be lucky to take a shot on Jordan Love.

I understand your rationale for why you think NFL folks will like Jordan Love. To be honest though, I think the NFL overdrafts a lot of bad QBs. There are so many guys drafted in the first round that average fans could pretty much see weren't going to workout. But NFL teams LOVE the idea of a QB prospect. They find reasons to fall in love with a guy despite his obvious faults because they are trying to create a QB prospect when it doesn't exist. Because they NEED one. Chances are the guy they are drafting won't be as good as they guy who will back him up in the long run. But you can't sell a fan base and owner on a steady but unexciting QB. You need to sell them on the ANSWER.

Guys like Christian Ponder and EJ Manuel were drafted in the first round. Jamarcus freaking Russell was drafted number one overall! So I read your assertion of why Love will be highly valued the NFL, and it makes sense. I just don't think that being highly valued by the NFL, which always wants to create QB prospects, really means they are a viable QB.

To be perfectly honest, I know very little about Love specifically. But I always worry about QBs who are thought of as fringe prospects before draft time heats up without any obvious reason why they should be rated higher, because I know based on the draft every single year that QBs are going to be overdrafted. If you can land a guy like this as a flyer at a lower pick, fine. But I don't like these guys as first round picks.

 

[meatpardle]

One thing I can say tho is that if he gets drafted late first round then he'll be going to a good team while Burrow and Tua and possibly Herbert would be going to bad teams/situations.

We have a late first round pick...

 

[Danny]

We have a late first round pick...

yes but I'm talking in general. Most teams don't have 3 1st round picks like we do.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

I’m obviously in the minority but I’d rather draft Love and let him sit a year than draft Tua and have him sit a year. At least Love has the tools to be special.

Might not be a bad idea. After all, you basically have to sit Tua for a year anyway. Only problem might be where Love is drafted. He's now getting top 10 "love" which means Miami would have to take him at #5.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

Walterfootball had Will Grier above Minshew - and I don’t mean by a little bit. 9 or 10 slots.

I don't even look at Walterfootball anymore. Just garbage.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

There hasn’t been many great quarterbacks that didn’t require the time needed for the mental aspects to catch up their physical abilities. I don’t necessarily disagree with that particular take, but I’d rather it be a little more specific.

The main thing Love struggles with is locating and gauging underneath defenders - particularly on throws that need to layered beyond the 2nd level and in front of the last level. The longer he holds the ball the worse he gets.

9th ranked QB in the class? Somebody could take all my money betting that one.

He seems to look off DB's on some plays, but not on those short, quick throws. At least that's what I've seen. I do wonder about the intangibles and mental aspect of the game because I haven't heard anything in that regard on Love. There's no question that his physical abilities are there.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

I always agreed that Mayfield was a douche, and your concerns with that aspect of him gave me pause. Ultimately, I didn't think it'd be destructive in the way it was for Manziel, but we'll see what happens. I do think Cleveland is one of the 2 or 3 worst-coached teams in the league. Cincinnati and the Jets are the only two other teams that come to mind, but I think even Gase is better than Taylor and Kitchens. The one concern I had about Mayfield as a player is that he was always a frontrunner. When things went well, they went amazingly well, but when Oklahoma was overmatched, Mayfield would come apart. Much as I liked him, I insisted that he was no Deshaun Watson. When **** got tough for Watson, he always had an answer. He didn't always win, but you knew he always had a chance.

Ultimately, Cleveland has been the worst franchise in the NFL for a decade or so. It was always going to be a steep climb. It's basically the inverse of Lamar Jackson's and Patrick Mahomes's situations. If Mayfield ended up with an Andy Reid or a Sean Payton, I think you'd see him getting the ball out on time, and his accuracy and ability to see the field would see him thrive.

The hardest thing about projecting QB's has little to do with the QB's themselves. You rarely get a player like Luck or Watson, who is going to be good regardless of the coach or the situation. A lot of the top guys have the talent to be great in great situations, but most are not so good that they can overcome a bad team. Of course, bad teams get most of the top-end QB's, and there are middle areas. Some bad teams hire better coaches and bring in better talent but only raise the overall level to mediocre, rather than good or great.

Tying this to Miami, this is why I'm so adamant that a team as bad/devoid of talent spend the majority of its resources building the offense. It would significantly increase the margin for error. As things stand, Miami would need to land the type of QB who only comes around once every 5-10 years, rather than one of the one or two best guys in a given class.

A little off subject, but Tua's injury actually could benefit Miami. He is the type of player who comes around once every 5-10 years as you say. The injury is a concern, but it means he likely makes it to the Dolphins pick at #5. That wouldn't be the case had he stayed healthy. The optimist in me says maybe he stays healthy enough to make a huge difference in Miami.

 

[ChrisEAS]

i would never want Love at #5. I agree the overdrafting stuff is ridiculous.

I'll take Love, Fromm or Herbert only if they are there in the 2nd round...and probably the 2b pick. Neither of the 3 of them are sure bets, so definitely not 1st round.

 

[Rick Cartman]

i would never want Love at #5. I agree the overdrafting stuff is ridiculous.

I'll take Love, Fromm or Herbert only if they are there in the 2nd round...and probably the 2b pick. Neither of the 3 of them are sure bets, so definitely not 1st round.

There's little chance either Love or Herbert fall out of the first round unless they absolutely bomb their workouts/interviews. If they have conviction that either of them are a championship caliber QB, they need to take that player at 5.