Josh Allen’s progress over the last 3 years

[jeffc12]

Gotta love the Bills trolls... when they sucked for the better part of 25 years you don’t hear from them, then they get a taste of success and they become big time a$$holes... I grew up in Niagara Falls, Canada- been to Bills games, and I remember getting beer thrown at me when I was 13, because I was wearing a Marino jersey... grown men calling on a kid because I was a Dolphin fan- drunk and verbally aggressive, scared the $hit out of my family... never experienced that in any other stadium I’ve been too...very disappointed in the loss today but I am glad I am not a part of the most ignorant, disgusting fan base in the NFL

I'm from the Syracuse area....same here....I went 6 or 7 years....stopped going it was awful....I'm all for some good ball busting but just pouring beers on people for craps and giggles is dumb

 

[Foreboding]

I am a Bills fan, a Florida transplant and most of my buddies are phins fans. I watch many of their games and (obviously) do not dislike the fans or the team.

I think the most common thread between the Bills and Phins, is that both now have good leadership in the organization. Until that is right, there is no winning. Of course, you would like to find a Josh Allen, I think what the Bills have done is find a well-hidden unicorn. If the league knew he would end up like this he would have gone first overall, of course. So credit the Bills for proper development and seeing the obvious before it became so, but it was about ****ing time. We were bad forever.

Phins meanwhile, have themselves a respectable QB who can surely be pretty very good. If they also agree, give him a year or two and build around him. You do not need Pat Mahomes to win, but you sure can't win with Wentz or Newton at this point. Tua is fine and I think starting over with another small QB would be silly. Was I the Phins brass I would develop this kid and start getting into the playoffs.

 

[PerfectFinz72]

As a Bills fan who has watched Allen develop, I don’t think you can compare Tua to Allen.

In my opinion (which is not worth much), I think Miami should do whatever they have to do to get Fields.

Miami has a great coach in Flo, a good defense, and some pieces on offense.

Add Fields and we can get back to the 90’s rivalry Bills-Dolphins.

Just my opinion.

Not sure why you think they should draft Fields. You're right to your opinion but you didn't really back it with much other than Flores being a great coach and good defense?

Anyway, I don't think we need to compare Allen and Tua skill wise, size wise etc. What I think could be a fair comparison is their rookie years. Josh Allen was terribly inaccurate and did not have a good rookie year. He was better year 2 and jumped up year 3. What I'm getting at is what if they bailed on Josh Allen after year 1 because of what they saw? Would seem like a huge mistake today, wouldn't it?

I can make no guarantees Tua will be the guy, but I'd also not want to bail after less than a full season as the starter. If he doesn't improve at all next year, then make a decision how to move forward then. But I think bailing right now would be a mistake. I'm NOT here to tell all that Tua was amazing, however I did see enough where I would like to see him back as the starter with some improvements to the offense and someone who isn't a dinosaur as the OC.

 

[ChitownPhins28]

The cost of getting Lawrence, if even possible, would be like Mike Ditka getting Ricky Williams. We'd set back our rebuild by 2 years.
Outside of Lawrence, you're dealing with 'maybes' at best and we already have a 'maybe' who will begin the 2021 season far ahead of the 'maybe' guys drafted 4 months from now.

No QB at 3, period.

Build up the roster. Plug the holes, upgrade from good to great in a couple places, and go from 10 wins to 12 and ready to compete for the Lombardi a year from now.

 

[artdnj]

We have to build a team to beat the Bills, they always seem to tear us up and this year was no different. Weapons on offense and pass rushers are absolutely a necessity.

 

[1972forever]

Is the reason the Fins build around Tua.... I cant believe the bull$hit spewed here about drafting another QB

You have a lot of fans on here from the instant gratification generation. If they can’t have what they want right now, they bitch and complain and want a new toy immediately so they can be happy for a little while. Of course they will quickly get tired of that new toy and want another one when that toy is no longer shiny and new and doesn’t work the way they expect it to work.

There was a time when QB’s actually were allowed to develop for more than half a season before fans started judging how effective they would be in a few years. Yet that is no longer the case for the instant gratification generation which demands that the QB meet their expectations immediately or it is time to trade the QB for a new one which will also fail to live up to their expectations. It’s the world we live in today and that is just too sad, IMO.

 

[1972forever]

We have to build a team to beat the Bills, they always seem to tear us up and this year was no different. Weapons on offense and pass rushers are absolutely a necessity.

They need to build a team to beat all the teams in the AFC. The Bills might be the new kid on the block that is the big bully right now but if people on here don’t think the Patriots won’t be back in the race with Belichick as their HC, they are just fooling themselves. The Jets might take a little longer but their main issue was the HC and he is no longer the HC.

 

[DannyMcCoy]

You have a lot of fans on here from the instant gratification generation. If they can’t have what they want right now, they bitch and complain and want a new toy immediately so they can be happy for a little while. Of course they will quickly get tired of that new toy and want another one when that toy is no longer shiny and new and doesn’t work the way they expect it to work.

There was a time when QB’s actually were allowed to develop for more than half a season before fans started judging how effective they would be in a few years. Yet that is no longer the case for the instant gratification generation which demands that the QB meet their expectations immediately or it is time to trade the QB for a new one which will also fail to live up to their expectations. It’s the world we live in today and that is just too sad, IMO.

Yes those damn impatient fans who wanted to make the playoffs for the 3rd time since 2002 instead of throwing the season away.

 

[Rev Kev]

How many Super Bowls do they have?

How many SBs does Joe Montana, Russell Wilson Drew Brees have? They aren't very big?

How many SBs does your boy JA have how many PO wins?

It is conceivable they lose against Ind I kno it is hard to get one's head around but it is a team game

 

[Rev Kev]

Tua’s size is similar to Brees- his stature has nothing to do with his performance so just stop

Tua weighs 15 pounds less than Allen. Tua is not a fully developed man neither is Austin Jackson these are just kids getting their professional legs under them

 

[BlueFin]

Is the reason the Fins build around Tua.... I cant believe the bull$hit spewed here about drafting another QB

Josh Allen has amazing physical skills...like a Justin Herbert....Sadly, Tua does not.

 

[McDolphins]

Bills fan, but not here to troll. First, I don't think you can look at Allen and say, "it can happen to Tua too!" because what Allen has done from a development perspective simply hasn't been done by any QB that we've seen before. He's the exception, not the norm.

Second, Suggesting Allen was garbage in his first year in order to try and justify Tua's performances isn't a good look, nor is it really accurate. The idea that Tua's numbers are "much better" than Allen's is a really tough sell to anyone who bothers to actually look those numbers up. It sounds nice, but like claims of election fraud, fall apart when you actually look at the evidence.

PASSING

Allen 2018
12 GP
320 ATT
169 COMP
52.8%
2074 YDS
10 TD

Tua 2020
10 GP
290 ATT
186 COMP
64.1%
1814 YDS
11 TD

RUSHING

Allen 2018
631 YDS
8 TD

Tua 2020
109 YDS
3 TD

Purely passing, It's really hard to say that Tua was "much better" than Allen. More accurate? Yes. But I wouldn't look at either of those guy's numbers and be very impressed. Allen was 172 yds/gm, Tua 181.

However this is 2021, and running can be a big part of a QBs game. Allen blew Tua out of the water in this regard. Allen ran for 631 yds and 8 TDs to Tua's 109 and 3 TDs. So while if you put a gun to my head, I'd agree with the claim that Tua was a better (but not MUCH better) passer their rookie years, Allen was simply a much more EFFECTIVE QB overall. He contributed to the team at a higher rate than Tua with the time they each had on the field. He was able to make up for his accuracy issues and terrible WR corps (best WR was Zay Jones 642 yds.) by making plays other ways, to some extent. So that when you look at total offensive contribution, Allen's numbers are 2705 total yards and 18 total TDs to Tua's 1,923 total yards and 14 TDs.

Now I have no idea if Tua will turn into a franchise QB or not. But the problem I think you have is that his arm isn't really that special, and he lacks the athleticism and instincts to make things happen without his arm (or keep plays alive like Allen or Murray). He strikes me as a very cerebral, pinpoint passer. He's not going to be able to do things no one else can. The best Qbs today, Rogers, Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, hell, even Murray, you can look at their skillset and their tape and see that they can make throws and do things that maybe only 1 or 2 other guys in the league can. I think you have to hope he turns into a Brees who is able to knock a fly off a horses's *** from 50 yards away with his accuracy, because what else does he really do that well?? Is there anything in Tua's game that you can say that about? He's moderately accurate (65% is fine, but not great), and that's probably the best thing you can say about him. At least when you looked at Allen rookie year you could say, well, his accuracy is bad, but he has a cannon and is one of the top 2 or 3 running Qbs in the league that can literally hurdle a linebacker (see Vikings game)

I respectfully disagree. While I don’t think Tua will ever play exactly like Allen because of size and physical trait differences, I do believe that by year 3 we can see a QB who is playing with confidence and who is maddening defenses who can’t get him off the field, IF the front office and coaching staff continue to build the team around him, develop him and build a game plan that plays to his strengths. In that regard, yes I do believe we can emulate your team’s plan up to this point with your young quarterback.
Congratulations on a phenomenal season and best of luck in the playoffs. Buffalo has the hottest offense in the league right now and if they can keep that up they can contend with any team left. Just get by Indy’s defense this week.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

Bills fan, but not here to troll. First, I don't think you can look at Allen and say, "it can happen to Tua too!" because what Allen has done from a development perspective simply hasn't been done by any QB that we've seen before. He's the exception, not the norm.

Second, Suggesting Allen was garbage in his first year in order to try and justify Tua's performances isn't a good look, nor is it really accurate. The idea that Tua's numbers are "much better" than Allen's is a really tough sell to anyone who bothers to actually look those numbers up. It sounds nice, but like claims of election fraud, fall apart when you actually look at the evidence.

PASSING

Allen 2018
12 GP
320 ATT
169 COMP
52.8%
2074 YDS
10 TD

Tua 2020
10 GP
290 ATT
186 COMP
64.1%
1814 YDS
11 TD

RUSHING

Allen 2018
631 YDS
8 TD

Tua 2020
109 YDS
3 TD

Purely passing, It's really hard to say that Tua was "much better" than Allen. More accurate? Yes. But I wouldn't look at either of those guy's numbers and be very impressed. Allen was 172 yds/gm, Tua 181.

However this is 2021, and running can be a big part of a QBs game. Allen blew Tua out of the water in this regard. Allen ran for 631 yds and 8 TDs to Tua's 109 and 3 TDs. So while if you put a gun to my head, I'd agree with the claim that Tua was a better (but not MUCH better) passer their rookie years, Allen was simply a much more EFFECTIVE QB overall. He contributed to the team at a higher rate than Tua with the time they each had on the field. He was able to make up for his accuracy issues and terrible WR corps (best WR was Zay Jones 642 yds.) by making plays other ways, to some extent. So that when you look at total offensive contribution, Allen's numbers are 2705 total yards and 18 total TDs to Tua's 1,923 total yards and 14 TDs.

Now I have no idea if Tua will turn into a franchise QB or not. But the problem I think you have is that his arm isn't really that special, and he lacks the athleticism and instincts to make things happen without his arm (or keep plays alive like Allen or Murray). He strikes me as a very cerebral, pinpoint passer. He's not going to be able to do things no one else can. The best Qbs today, Rogers, Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, hell, even Murray, you can look at their skillset and their tape and see that they can make throws and do things that maybe only 1 or 2 other guys in the league can. I think you have to hope he turns into a Brees who is able to knock a fly off a horses's *** from 50 yards away with his accuracy, because what else does he really do that well?? Is there anything in Tua's game that you can say that about? He's moderately accurate (65% is fine, but not great), and that's probably the best thing you can say about him. At least when you looked at Allen rookie year you could say, well, his accuracy is bad, but he has a cannon and is one of the top 2 or 3 running Qbs in the league that can literally hurdle a linebacker (see Vikings game)

Nice post. But did you leave out interceptions on purpose?

That's where Allen struggled early, decision making and accuracy. Tua has a significant edge there. At least in comparing rookie seasons.

As far as the athletic talent, Allen is hard to beat there. I love his toughness and he has turned into a good quarterback.

 

[1972forever]

Yes those damn impatient fans who wanted to make the playoffs for the 3rd time since 2002 instead of throwing the season away.

If you don’t understand the difference between the the fans frustration with not making the playoffs and the ridiculous comments about Tua needing to be replaced as the Dolphins QB after less than a year in the league. I certainly can’t help you. Blaming him for how the badly the entire team played yesterday and then wanting to draft another QB with the third pick is a way of responding to a loss that I just don’t understand.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

Allen had 10 touchdowns and 12 interceptions as a rookie and completed just 52 percent of his passes.

I'm sure the Bills were happy with the athlete, but he had a LONG way to go as a quarterback.