Josh Rosen Pocket Presence | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Josh Rosen Pocket Presence

killafinz said:
I cant help you, youre negativity is blinding you, we knew we were going to trade a 2nd for rosen so we devalued our 2nd by trading with the saints and moving our second rd pic to the back of the round essentially making it a glorified 3rd, then gained a 6th where we drafted a tackle valued as a 3-4th round player. Got a top ten pick from the year before and some one who has a good chance at competing for franchise qb a for a 5th round pick and essentially no cap hit. If you dont see the front office genius in this I cant help you.
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That's right. The rest of the league is trembling at the genius of Miami's front office? Lol. If they were so smart and they knew they were going to trade for Josh Rosen, why didn't they move down in the first round and acquire more picks so they could start building their broken offensive line? And I love Wilkins a personality and a player, but what is the long term vision for building this team? It just seems to me that they are just throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. Do you know what I want? Do you know what makes me jealous? It's a front office like Indianapolis who gets it. They have a clear vision of how to build a team and then they go out and execute it. If Miami gets good, they will have to stumble into it (maybe by lucking into drafting a transformative qb), but they have been stumbling for more than 20 years now with no luck.
 
rickd13 said:
That's right. The rest of the league is trembling at the genius of Miami's front office? Lol. If they were so smart and they knew they were going to trade for Josh Rosen, why didn't they move down in the first round and acquire more picks so they could start building their broken offensive line? And I love Wilkins a personality and a player, but what is the long term vision for building this team? It just seems to me that they are just throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. Do you know what I want? Do you know what makes me jealous? It's a front office like Indianapolis who gets it. They have a clear vision of how to build a team and then they go out and execute it. If Miami gets good, they will have to stumble into it (maybe by lucking into drafting a transformative qb), but they have been stumbling for more than 20 years now with no luck.
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I mean I think its more than clear that Flores has been heavily influenced by the New England culture and he is bringing that here.

Keep in mind . . . .Zona never wavered off a first and there was no guarantee they were going to. Miami took the top guy on their board. There was never a guarantee they were gonna get Rosen.

Miami wanted to give them a 3 and Zona said **** off . . . .2 or bust. Miami manuevered then to replace that 2 with a 2 in 2020 and give them what is a tear drop from being a 3.

I mean it didn’t look like they were throwing **** on a wall to see what sticks. They were making **** happen. I feel comfortable that Tannenbaum would of just sent them 48 . . . .hell maybe even 13 . . . .who the hell knows.

And Indy wasted 6 years of Luck because they didn’t know what the hell they were doing . . . .lets not let one year of getting it right compare to a new FO trying to erase the Gase/Tbaum mess.

At least they didn’t draft a bunch of finesse guys. They added nothing but maulers on the offensive line and other lunch pail guys on defense. They clearly are attempting to change the soft identity we have put on tape the last few years.
 
And now we get to the root of the problem you didnt like our first pick so they must be stupid the rest of the draft and from now on. How is taking a dt that could be the anchor and captain of our defense for the next decade be considered not a building block for the future, can you guarantee me the picks we would have gotten from a trade out of our pick would add up to what wilkinson can deliver. How is picking up rosen and wilkinson just throwing things against the wall? Are you really comparing a org that was so bad they were able to secure andrew luck and still havent won or accomplished anything with him since. What is this vision they have. Luck is probaly the best qb to come out of college and probaly pound for pound the best in the league but is 4-4 in the playoffs with none of those playoffs wins resulting in a trophy. If anything indy has failed luck, but keep thinking there vision is incredible.
 
rickd13 said:
That's right. The rest of the league is trembling at the genius of Miami's front office? Lol. If they were so smart and they knew they were going to trade for Josh Rosen, why didn't they move down in the first round and acquire more picks so they could start building their broken offensive line? And I love Wilkins a personality and a player, but what is the long term vision for building this team? It just seems to me that they are just throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. Do you know what I want? Do you know what makes me jealous? It's a front office like Indianapolis who gets it. They have a clear vision of how to build a team and then they go out and execute it. If Miami gets good, they will have to stumble into it (maybe by lucking into drafting a transformative qb), but they have been stumbling for more than 20 years now with no luck.
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OK, I'll take a stab at why you shouldn't be so down about things.

Aside from maybe needlessly giving up a couple of assets for Rosen (I still think we could have gotten him for less), we have a ton of picks and a bankload of money for next offseason. Aside from the Rosen trade, this draft seemed to be about building in the trenches and toughness and I think it did a good job of that with the few tools we had at hand.

Wilkins wasn't a good draft pick. He was a GREAT draft pick. Because of my job, I've been familiar with him since he was a junior in HS. He's a rarity in that he is a guy who is athletic enough to make plays on the interior of the defensive line, and he is so intelligent and has such a high character he is going to get better and make the guys around him better. Getting one player like Minkah Fitzpatrick is a rarity. Now we have two. And Wilkins addressed our most pressing need not just on defense but on the team. Opposing teams will gameplan for him. Our linebackers will be free to move downhill and make plays without getting blocked. This is where everything starts.

And we've got all kinds of ammo to use next year. It's true, you can stumble into getting good. But you have more chances to win the lottery with 120,000 tickets than a half-dozen.

Your concerns have validity. But let this play out a bit. Give it a chance.
 
rickd13 said:
For free? The Dolphins traded a 2nd round pick for him this year, which for a team as bad as this, would have most likely been a starter. And for good measure, this stupid organization threw in a 5th round pick in next season's draft when they already had the best offer on the table for Rosen by offering a second round pick. Nobody could beat Miami's offer because everyone except one team had already used their 2nd round pick this year, so Arizona would have had to settled for assets in next season's draft if they had any chance of doing better than Miami's second round pick this year. Arizona had no leverage. No kidding Miami has to keep pulling the trigger at qb until they settle the position, but Rosen just bought this inept front office an excuse to bypass pulling said trigger on another qb in the first round next season. What about this organization gives you the confidence that they will recognize whether or not they should take the chance on drafting another qb?
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A couple of things...
Of course to be pessimistic on Rosen is your prerogative; ditto to be cynical over this regime doing the right thing in your mind to move on next season to a currently highly rated college QB.

Likewise it's my prerogative to disagree on both fronts for the following reasons:

This regime, especially Flores and O'Shea have no connection to previous franchise screw-ups. As a matter of fact, when it comes to assessing the viability and attributes of promising QBs, they enjoy a perspective most do not: observing Tom Brady close up and personal for years as a measuring stick.

As far as QBs coming out next season: who's to say that what glitters today isn't fools gold at that point? Remember how well USC's Barkley and Leinart were thought of the years before they came out? Locker was also being drooled over the previous year to entering the draft to name just a few. And that doesn't take into consideration injuries or decisions to stay in school.

As far as measuring Rosen: first, he's probably the most naturally talented pocket passer to come into the league in a number of years. He's also extremely intelligent (sometimes resulting it that becoming his own worst enemy). Both are Tom Brady qualities. There's really no reason to think that given a coaching staff including Caldwell who understand how to get the best out of him, like the Pats do Brady, that none of his classmates (excepting Mayfield) or any of the incoming 2010 QBs are more talented or effective.

A step further as far as spending too much time on him as a momentum-losing proposition. Peyton Manning went 3-13 his first season throwing a lot of TDs but even more Ints - and that's with Marshall Faulk rushing for over 1300 yds. The Colts could have drafted another QB but saw more than enough to know he was the real deal. Ditto Aikman and Elway and their terrible starts. Likewise Peyton's dad Archie, the second best Manning got wasted in NO with an abysmal career record.. but the franchise knew that the losses were a lot less on him than on his supporting cast and wisely kept running with him cuz he was the real deal.

Josh Rosen by comparison despite terrible coaching, 2 OCs, patchwork OLs that kept changing ended up 3-10 with stats comparable to Josh Allen and Sam Darnold and better than Lamar Jackson if you take out the rushes. So there's that perspective too as far as stinking up the first year goes.

LIke Indy and NO with the Manning father and son, Dallas with Aikman, Denver with Elway, our staff having to see Tom Brady up close and personal will know whether Rosen is the real deal no matter the final record cuz "a bird in the hand is always worth 2 in the bush". And if they feel he is then we are truly ahead of the game; conversely if they feel he isn't, we will take another crapshoot at drafting a QB.
 
killafinz said:
You and a couple of people on this board are the only ones in the country that think this is a bad deal, why are you couple of people right and the rest of the world wrong? How is stealing a potential franchise qb away from a trainwreck of a franchise for essentially a 5th rd pick stupid. It was a truly savy deal made by grier and co.
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I love how you rewrite history to make it look Miami's organization is brilliant compared to rest of the league. Miami isn't a train wreck of a franchise? Now they traded only a 5th round pick? What will it have to look like for Miami to be all in on Rosen or for them to move on? There is a time pressure placed on making that decision because the Dolphins will most likely be in a great position to pick the best qb in next year's draft especially with all the draft assets they accumulated.
 
rickd13 said:
I love how you rewrite history to make it look Miami's organization is brilliant compared to rest of the league. Miami isn't a train wreck of a franchise? Now they traded only a 5th round pick? What will it have to look like for Miami to be all in on Rosen or for them to move on? There is a time pressure placed on making that decision because the Dolphins will most likely be in a great position to pick the best qb in next year's draft especially with all the draft assets they accumulated.
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You need to step away from football until August or in fact wait until 2020 to see if we draft your QB hero. You are attempting to rewrite this season before even one game is played. Maybe we outsmarted the rest who wanted a QB maybe we didn't but jeez let it play out.
 
rickd13 said:
I love how you rewrite history to make it look Miami's organization is brilliant compared to rest of the league. Miami isn't a train wreck of a franchise? Now they traded only a 5th round pick? What will it have to look like for Miami to be all in on Rosen or for them to move on? There is a time pressure placed on making that decision because the Dolphins will most likely be in a great position to pick the best qb in next year's draft especially with all the draft assets they accumulated.
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Not one person here is claiming this organization is brilliant, we are arguing with you that it was a great move to get rosen. Flores and co are here from the best organization built in my lifetime and I respect what has happened this offseason. We have trimmed all of the terrrible and useless contracts off our team, amassed a great number of picks for next years draft. We had a really smart draft with a clear vision shown. This is griers first year as gm along with a first year coach and coordinators, so far it looks like they know what there doing they have tried to fix the core problems we have had for decades all ready by not making splash free agent signing and going for a franchise qb who alot of experts think will be. So I just dont get how you can call grier flores and co a trainwreck before we even started camp.
 
Kdawg954 said:
I mean I think its more than clear that Flores has been heavily influenced by the New England culture and he is bringing that here.

Keep in mind . . . .Zona never wavered off a first and there was no guarantee they were going to. Miami took the top guy on their board. There was never a guarantee they were gonna get Rosen.

Miami wanted to give them a 3 and Zona said **** off . . . .2 or bust. Miami manuevered then to replace that 2 with a 2 in 2020 and give them what is a tear drop from being a 3.

I mean it didn’t look like they were throwing **** on a wall to see what sticks. They were making **** happen. I feel comfortable that Tannenbaum would of just sent them 48 . . . .hell maybe even 13 . . . .who the hell knows.

And Indy wasted 6 years of Luck because they didn’t know what the hell they were doing . . . .lets not let one year of getting it right compare to a new FO trying to erase the Gase/Tbaum mess.

At least they didn’t draft a bunch of finesse guys. They added nothing but maulers on the offensive line and other lunch pail guys on defense. They clearly are attempting to change the soft identity we have put on tape the last few years.
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First of all, just because this regime didn't do what Tannenbaum would have done, doesn't mean they are now a competent organization. Second of all, the front office now in charge of Indianapolis is completely different than the one that was floundering around before. It's not just one year of getting it right for them, it's two years now and they're in great position financially and talent wise to dominate for the better part of the next decade as long as Luck stays healthy. That franchise has a clear vision of how to build a team. I have no confidence that this franchise has a clear vision of how to build a team.
 
rickd13 said:
First of all, just because this regime didn't do what Tannenbaum would have done, doesn't mean they are now a competent organization. Second of all, the front office now in charge of Indianapolis is completely different than the one that was floundering around before. It's not just one year of getting it right for them, it's two years now and they're in great position financially and talent wise to dominate for the better part of the next decade as long as Luck stays healthy. That franchise has a clear vision of how to build a team. I have no confidence that this franchise has a clear vision of how to build a team.
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Based on what this franchise was hired in january, what have you learned in 3 months that the rest of doesnt know. we are not even at there first ota as a franchise and you have doomed them to be failures and be replaced immediately, please explain how you came to this conclusion.
 
killafinz said:
Based on what this franchise was hired in january, what have you learned in 3 months that the rest of doesnt know. we are not even at there first ota as a franchise and you have doomed them to be failures and be replaced immediately, please explain how you came to this conclusion.
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Chris Grier has been here all along.
 
rickd13 said:
Chris Grier has been here all along.
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You have to do better than that, he has not been in charge of anything before this year. Are you just going to sit there and ignore where flores and oshea come from, do you really think they didnt do there homework on rosen or wilkens or there going to ruin this franchise in 3 months already.
 
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