Josh Rosen Pocket Presence

rickd13

Scout Team
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
2,329
Reaction score
761
Age
54
Location
Rochester, New York
A couple of things...
Of course to be pessimistic on Rosen is your prerogative; ditto to be cynical over this regime doing the right thing in your mind to move on next season to a currently highly rated college QB.

Likewise it's my prerogative to disagree on both fronts for the following reasons:

This regime, especially Flores and O'Shea have no connection to previous franchise screw-ups. As a matter of fact, when it comes to assessing the viability and attributes of promising QBs, they enjoy a perspective most do not: observing Tom Brady close up and personal for years as a measuring stick.

As far as QBs coming out next season: who's to say that what glitters today isn't fools gold at that point? Remember how well USC's Barkley and Leinart were thought of the years before they came out? Locker was also being drooled over the previous year to entering the draft to name just a few. And that doesn't take into consideration injuries or decisions to stay in school.

As far as measuring Rosen: first, he's probably the most naturally talented pocket passer to come into the league in a number of years. He's also extremely intelligent (sometimes resulting it that becoming his own worst enemy). Both are Tom Brady qualities. There's really no reason to think that given a coaching staff including Caldwell who understand how to get the best out of him, like the Pats do Brady, that none of his classmates (excepting Mayfield) or any of the incoming 2010 QBs are more talented or effective.

A step further as far as spending too much time on him as a momentum-losing proposition. Peyton Manning went 3-13 his first season throwing a lot of TDs but even more Ints - and that's with Marshall Faulk rushing for over 1300 yds. The Colts could have drafted another QB but saw more than enough to know he was the real deal. Ditto Aikman and Elway and their terrible starts. Likewise Peyton's dad Archie, the second best Manning got wasted in NO with an abysmal career record.. but the franchise knew that the losses were a lot less on him than on his supporting cast and wisely kept running with him cuz he was the real deal.

Josh Rosen by comparison despite terrible coaching, 2 OCs, patchwork OLs that kept changing ended up 3-10 with stats comparable to Josh Allen and Sam Darnold and better than Lamar Jackson if you take out the rushes. So there's that perspective too as far as stinking up the first year goes.

LIke Indy and NO with the Manning father and son, Dallas with Aikman, Denver with Elway, our staff having to see Tom Brady up close and personal will know whether Rosen is the real deal no matter the final record cuz "a bird in the hand is always worth 2 in the bush". And if they feel he is then we are truly ahead of the game; conversely if they feel he isn't, we will take another crapshoot at drafting a QB.
You make a good case. I just do not trust Chris Grier, and I would need to see brilliance from Rosen for me not to want Miami to not pull the trigger on anther qb next season. I would not feel comfortable putting all of my eggs in the Josh Rosen basket.
 

andyahs

Bahamian Redneck
Finheaven VIP
Joined
Jul 10, 2005
Messages
9,864
Reaction score
5,613
Location
Bahamas
You make a good case. I just do not trust Chris Grier, and I would need to see brilliance from Rosen for me not to want Miami to not pull the trigger on anther qb next season. I would not feel comfortable putting all of my eggs in the Josh Rosen basket.
How many games are you willing to wait to see this Rosen brilliance?

You are already setting yourself up to blast him from game one.
 

rickd13

Scout Team
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
2,329
Reaction score
761
Age
54
Location
Rochester, New York
You have to do better than that, he has not been in charge of anything before this year. Are you just going to sit there and ignore where flores and oshea come from, do you really think they didnt do there homework on rosen or wilkens or there going to ruin this franchise in 3 months already.

Do you realize how many assistants have gone on to fail after leaving New England? I would say all of them with exception of Bill O'Brien. Where Flores and O'Shea came from mean nothing to me until they prove something on their own.
 

rickd13

Scout Team
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
2,329
Reaction score
761
Age
54
Location
Rochester, New York
How many games are you willing to wait to see this Rosen brilliance?

You are already setting yourself up to blast him from game one.
That's my whole point. What's going to be enough from him for you not to want to pull the trigger on another qb ? Just because Rosen is here you would not be willing to take someone else next season? I wouldn't put all my stock in him unless he is exceptional. You just can not pass on an opportunity to draft a franchise type qb because Rosen is on your roster.
 

killafinz

Scout Team
Joined
Apr 23, 2010
Messages
159
Reaction score
148
Do you realize how many assistants have gone on to fail after leaving New England? I would say all of them with exception of Bill O'Brien. Where Flores and O'Shea came from mean nothing to me until they prove something on their own.
Okay fair enough, but let me ask you this. You said they lack vision, right? Coach stated from day one he wanted a smart fundamentally sound football team. They cut all of the unsmart players and salaries off our disaster of a roster freeing up 120million and gaining up to 14 draft picks next year. Fired tannabum and traded tannehill. We drafted one of the highest rated football players who is the academic heisman, 2 time national champion on one of the best college defensive lines of all time first round. Traded a number 62 2nd and 5th round pick for a top 10 blue chip prospect from '18 while gaining a 2nd and 6th which we used on a 3-4th round rated tackle who was a 3 year starter on a major college program. Im failing to see any sign of trainwreck here please enlighten us? I really think your just being overdramtic and emotional based off our history and I would love to talk you off the edge by the end of the day :)
 

ohall

A Miami Dolphins fan, not a players fan.
Finheaven VIP
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Messages
28,956
Reaction score
569
Age
49
Location
Orlando, Fl.
I love how you rewrite history to make it look Miami's organization is brilliant compared to rest of the league. Miami isn't a train wreck of a franchise? Now they traded only a 5th round pick? What will it have to look like for Miami to be all in on Rosen or for them to move on? There is a time pressure placed on making that decision because the Dolphins will most likely be in a great position to pick the best qb in next year's draft especially with all the draft assets they accumulated.
I understand why you are upset. It has been a long time since we as fans have had anything real and long lasting to be proud of. Got it and more than fair. Also with the Rosen move I can see having doubts about him as an over all talent, as far as being a franchise type QB. That's opinion, and we all have the right to think w/e we/you like. My issue is, automatically conflating decisions of past front offices with this one is not a fair opinion to have, and to try use as ammo to argue your POV. This front office has nothing to do with what has taken place in the past. Although Grier has been around I think we all agree until this year he hasn't been total free to make decisions for this franchise.

As hard as it may be to do, I think all of us can try and remember that and do our best to keep an open mind about their decisions. When they give us evidence that THEIR decisions are wrong then we can all jump all over them, IMO. Before that it seems unfair to them and to us as fans to conflate them with past front offices.
 

rickd13

Scout Team
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
2,329
Reaction score
761
Age
54
Location
Rochester, New York
Okay fair enough, but let me ask you this. You said they lack vision, right? Coach stated from day one he wanted a smart fundamentally sound football team. They cut all of the unsmart players and salaries off our disaster of a roster freeing up 120million and gaining up to 14 draft picks next year. Fired tannabum and traded tannehill. We drafted one of the highest rated football players who is the academic heisman, 2 time national champion on one of the best college defensive lines of all time first round. Traded a number 62 2nd and 5th round pick for a top 10 blue chip prospect from '18 while gaining a 2nd and 6th which we used on a 3-4th round rated tackle who was a 3 year starter on a major college program. Im failing to see any sign of trainwreck here please enlighten us? I really think your just being overdramtic and emotional based off our history and I would love to talk you off the edge by the end of the day :)
I hope as much as anyone that this franchise has turned the corner but until I see proof otherwise I'm not buying it. There has been some promising signs, like the stockpiling of draft picks for next season and not spending big money in free agency, but other things make me really skeptical. Every team talks about wanting smart football players but it's all just blather. How about finding great football players? They haven't proven they can do that yet. Saying you want smart football players isn't a vision of how to build a team. It's knowing how to identify good to great players at the most important positions on a football team and putting them in the best position to succeed and drafting a defensive tackle (a guy that I think may be a great player and who I really like) Instead of moving down and acquiring more draft assets to fix a totally broken offense in a offensive driven era of football gives pause that this franchise has a clear vision of how to build a sustained winner.
 

Danny

Finheaven VIP
Finheaven VIP
Joined
Apr 17, 2003
Messages
31,166
Reaction score
31,487
Location
Kissimmee,FL
I understand why you are upset. It has been a long time since we as fans have had anything real and long lasting to be proud of. Got it and more than fair. Also with the Rosen move I can see having doubts about him as an over all talent, as far as being a franchise type QB. That's opinion, and we all have the right to think w/e we/you like. My issue is, automatically conflating decisions of past front offices with this one is not a fair opinion to have, and to try use as ammo to argue your POV. This front office has nothing to do with what has taken place in the past. Although Grier has been around I think we all agree until this year he hasn't been total free to make decisions for this franchise.

As hard as it may be to do, I think all of us can try and remember that and do our best to keep an open mind about their decisions. When they give us evidence that THEIR decisions are wrong then we can all jump all over them, IMO. Before that it seems unfair to them and to us as fans to conflate them with past front offices.
Good point and I would add that in the past Grier had t-dumb by his side......what could he learn from him other than waste money by making a splash in free agency? Now he has a few real football people helping him out. Also, when it comes to Rosen he will have a guy like Caldwell who imo wasn't a great HC but he is a very good QB's coach. On draft day I didn't want to give up anything more than a 3rd round pick for Rosen but when you think about it in a way we only gave up a 5th in 2020 cause the 2nd this year we got back in 2020 and on top of it Artizona already paid most of the money due to him so if he sucks no harm done and we draft another QB.
 

Donaghy13

Rookie
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
91
Reaction score
75
I think he's RT 2.0, but hope I'm wrong. Got sacked a bunch; 45 times in 13 games is a lot, considering RT had 35 in 16 games as a rookie, but had arguably a healthier and more talented line. Both are decent scramblers. I think Rosen has a much stronger arm, but weaker mind. I feel like neither have that vocal leadership quality you want in a QB.

Hopefully I'm just being cynical, but forgive me, its been 6693 days since the Dolphins last won a playoff game
 

rickd13

Scout Team
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
2,329
Reaction score
761
Age
54
Location
Rochester, New York
I understand why you are upset. It has been a long time since we as fans have had anything real and long lasting to be proud of. Got it and more than fair. Also with the Rosen move I can see having doubts about him as an over all talent, as far as being a franchise type QB. That's opinion, and we all have the right to think w/e we/you like. My issue is, automatically conflating decisions of past front offices with this one is not a fair opinion to have, and to try use as ammo to argue your POV. This front office has nothing to do with what has taken place in the past. Although Grier has been around I think we all agree until this year he hasn't been total free to make decisions for this franchise.

As hard as it may be to do, I think all of us can try and remember that and do our best to keep an open mind about their decisions. When they give us evidence that THEIR decisions are wrong then we can all jump all over them, IMO. Before that it seems unfair to them and to us as fans to conflate them with past front offices.
Fair enough, but I'm 53 years old and I'm getting sick of being told "but this time it's different". Until I see otherwise, it's just more of the same to me.
 

Joe Dolfan

Starter
Joined
Jun 30, 2005
Messages
555
Reaction score
304
Age
47
Location
Santa Cruz, CA
You make a good case. I just do not trust Chris Grier, and I would need to see brilliance from Rosen for me not to want Miami to not pull the trigger on anther qb next season. I would not feel comfortable putting all of my eggs in the Josh Rosen basket.
You mean you don't want Miami to put one of their eggs in the Josh Rosen basket.
 

phinfan40353

Scout Team
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
2,070
Reaction score
843
I see criticisms and complaining like WE are the team on the hook for drafting Rosen last year.

We are not. We have a golden opportunity to give a legit talent one year to prove himself or we go draft our own.

Guys, we were gifted a chance to not throw away 2019. This year now has complete relevance to our future.

If Rosen can't prove it, we go get our own.

Grier just made 2019 a very important season for the Phins. We get to evaluate a dirt cheap legit prospect in his 2nd year of the NFL.

This will be viewed as one of Grier's savvier moves. Even if it doesn't pan out, we've lost nothing.

But we've gained valuable knowledge as an organization on what we want and don't want. This is about the closest you can get to a mulligan when evaluating top tier QB prospects.
 

RayStinkle

Scout Team
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
145
Reaction score
15
It's much better than Tannehill's. He moves well enough in the pocket and he seems to sense pressure fairly well, but he is not very athletic at all and he won't be able to run away from anyone.
Rosen was a top ranked tennis player so it's hard to believe he is not very athletic at all
 

finfan41

Rookie
Finheaven VIP
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
335
Reaction score
185
I’m pretty dumbfounded that people think that Rosen’s not worth pick 62 and a 5th rounder

Talent wise it’s a no brainer. That Seattle tape is worth every bit of it
where fin fans where not use to nice things lol
 
Top Bottom