JT – for better or worse… | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

JT – for better or worse…

finner

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It seems a fair subject of discussion if we’re better or worse without JT on the roster. Some believe JT’s trade means 2 or 3 wins we could have had in the upcoming season. I disagree with that line of thinking, and I also disagree that JT would directly affect the win column in a positive manner.

First of all, 1 or 2 more theoretical wins this season is an utterly meaningless debate in relation to the real-world status of this team. We are not contenders or even competitively positioned --- we are 100% rebuilding. Given the reality of the situation, wins for the sake of a slightly more palatable final record are nothing but window dressing.

Second, and more importantly, JT’s presence would actually be a negative to this team IMO. Why? Because his attitude (selfishness implied) simply doesn’t belong on a team in the position we are in. In addition, JT did nothing to lead by example when he was in a prime position to do so. The DWS BS is a direct reflection, and hence realization, about the mindset of someone who’s supposedly “obsessed with winning in Miami,” but is more dedicated to a personal pursuit than his teams betterment and his responsibility as the “superstar in residence” to lead by example. No matter what way you slice that ham it’s selfish and self-centered --- and a deeper revelation into hard-core “football character” than a rumba can reveal.

JT’s athletic talent has never been in question, but there is an open debate about his locker room influence --- and his need to be a “focal point” as opposed to a tried and true “team player.” This fact was reflected in some of the aftermath regarding our inability to move him before the draft by several GM’s around the league. Bottom line, sometimes “superstars” are not the answer to a winning football philosophy rooted in team sacrifice and collective hard work.

In retrospect, through his years in a Miami uniform, JT was never a decisive factor in really big games (i.e., playoffs etc.). More often than not, when it got to the raw physicality of the game --- against the best competition with the most on the line, JT’s impact was a not a game-changer. And we all witnessed more than one time the finger pointing and fissures of a “team” that wasn’t truly united.

A classic example of this type of “dynamic football chemistry” is what happened to the Giants without Shockey. The underlying “bad vibe” has a way of surfacing at the most critical times --- which is when a team’s collective character is revealed. It is in this sense that I don’t see JT as a positive contributor to the totality of a team’s greater composition. Perhaps I’m wrong --- but I do feel the history of his time here is hindered by such questions.

Last, there’s no doubt JT didn’t receive (from Jimmy Johnson on down) the type of discipline and focus he needed to become a “consummate team football player” as opposed to a great individual athlete on the field. Just like with Marino, some of his awesome talent was squandered and not directed in the most disciplined manner. For 20 plus years this has been a part of what defines the Miami Dolphins --- the lack of a truly unified team focused on collective as opposed to individual glory. Like it or not, given their cheating ways and everything else less than genuine, the Patriots have been a strong TEAM under Belicheat because of the tone set at the top --- and the players echoing that mantra.

Talent wins, but not talent by itself. I truly believe this is the core philosophy being installed in Miami --- and therefore (sadly) JT didn’t belong here anymore --- and ALL parties concerned knew that very clearly.
 
Taylor did win games single handedly in the last few years. The game against the Vikings in 2006 is probably the best example. He may not be a factor in "big games", but we likely won't be in one until the 2010 season, when he will be done physically.

It does make us worse in the short term, especially since our compensation doesn't kick in until a year from now. Charlie Anderson does not put fear into a quarterback the same way.
 
The big difference now is that this is a new defense. Taylor IMO is not a great fit in a 3-4 because he can't cover. He would have to be a pass rush OLB strictly because there is no way he can cover a back or TE. Same problem with Zach in pass coverage - both are too slow. They are quick to read and react but no way can they cover effectively. Porter is faster and can cover as well as rush. I think this D will be fine with Porter taking on that OLB role of pass rush. People forget he is here because of how he played last year. This guy can put fear in QB's! I think this D will be much better than last year because the focus will be stopping the run. How many times did teams run to JT's side last year and just push him out wide like he wasn't even there. He was a BIG liability when teams ran to his side. I like the idea of Starks, RWright or Langford lining up at DE across from Holliday. People also forget Starks but this guy got some big money to come here. You don't give that out for a backup unless he is being groomed to play NT and spell Ferguson.
 
Sometimes it's better to take a step backwards so you can go two steps forward later. Like JT or not I think everyone can agree him being on the field wont be enough to take us into post season play. Trading him gives us a couple of sorley needed draft picks, possibly even a compensary one added in there and not having having the 1 or 2 extra wins some of you believe he would add to our record, would only hurt us in the draft order next off season.

It was for the best to trade him off. He relieves us of some salary cap space. Gives us future picks. Theoreticaly moved us up in the draft.

He made it clear he did not want to play in Miami any longer, and made it easy to be traded, by alienating the himself from Miami. If he had not, Im not so sure it would of been politically possible for BP to get rid of him without really angering the entire community.

JT's last best sacrafice for this team was his lousy attitude.

TY, JT, for that!

Good-Bye and Good luck in Washington.
 
I think your personal feelings about JT is what has you calling him selfish. I don't recall ever hearing any of his teammates referring to him in that manner. In fact, Quinten Moses had nothing but praise for him.
"I learned more from Jason last year in the little bit I played behind him than I learned the whole time I've been playing the position," Moses said. "And I'm talking college and high school. He's such a mentor, tries to help people get better. And I never had to ask."
That does not sound like someone who would did not lead by example when he was able to.
 
The big difference now is that this is a new defense. Taylor IMO is not a great fit in a 3-4 because he can't cover. He would have to be a pass rush OLB strictly because there is no way he can cover a back or TE. Same problem with Zach in pass coverage - both are too slow. They are quick to read and react but no way can they cover effectively. Porter is faster and can cover as well as rush. I think this D will be fine with Porter taking on that OLB role of pass rush. People forget he is here because of how he played last year. This guy can put fear in QB's! I think this D will be much better than last year because the focus will be stopping the run. How many times did teams run to JT's side last year and just push him out wide like he wasn't even there. He was a BIG liability when teams ran to his side. I like the idea of Starks, RWright or Langford lining up at DE across from Holliday. People also forget Starks but this guy got some big money to come here. You don't give that out for a backup unless he is being groomed to play NT and spell Ferguson.
You do realize JT won DPOY playing in a 3-4 defense. Not being able to cover is not that important to the role JT would play because he would either be rushing the quarterback or playing a zone when he is not.
 
I can't help but think we were a 1-15 team last year. WITH JT on the team. As much as I will miss him, this is the perfect scenerio to send him off, and let us discover what we have in our kids. Im really looking forward to seeing what we have. Will we be better? I think it's a step in getting there.
 
I think your personal feelings about JT is what has you calling him selfish. I don't recall ever hearing any of his teammates referring to him in that manner. In fact, Quinten Moses had nothing but praise for him.

That does not sound like someone who would did not lead by example when he was able to.

I don't think you're ever going to hear that kind of stuff from another player --- pretty much an unwritten code of conduct IMO.

However, there’s a difference between players who need the spotlight and guys that just get the job done without the need for constant attention and ego strokes. IMO JT falls firmly into the former camp, and needs to have others playing the lunch pail role in order for him to shine.

Saban came in here and played big-time favorites with certain players and it blew-up in his face. The current group will not make the same mistake…
 
Taylor did win games single handedly in the last few years. The game against the Vikings in 2006 is probably the best example. He may not be a factor in "big games", but we likely won't be in one until the 2010 season, when he will be done physically.

It does make us worse in the short term, especially since our compensation doesn't kick in until a year from now. Charlie Anderson does not put fear into a quarterback the same way.

Perhaps this is where we differ: I believe if we play a better TEAM defense we will be a better overall defense.
 
finner, i think that's way Zach complimented Jason so well, he just came every Sunday to bust some heads.
 
I think trading JT was the right thing to do for THIS team. JT is a great DE and will play longer then just 1-2 like he said. He found a new home and good for him. IMO JT would not have been a good fit for this defense the way Paul P will want to run it. This is a in your face tuff defense with very little finesse. JT is a great pass rusher but if you ask JT to take on a lead blocker and shorten his neck (which this defesne will call for) I think he struggles. I make my opinion from what I've seen of him over the years. Never (at least I can speak for myself) have I seen JT just take someone on and sqeeze the gap. He usually plays with his hands and use his long arms (finesse at it's best) to his advantage. That won't cut it for this defense. It is a gap controlled style defense that needs big physical p[layers to be in there appropriate gaps at all times. I think it was BP plan all along to trade JT. Again it is just my 0.02 but he was the only player (other then zach - why not trade him as well I'll never understand that one) that had some value. A 2nd round pick is much more valuable to this team right now then trying to fit a great player into a scheme that he really does not fit into.
 
You dont think Jason Taylor could directly affect the win column for the Dolphins? I mean it's clear that we are worse without him to me, but when you're 100% rebuilding like you said i dont think that winning is the object right now. Losing Taylor cost the team 12 sacks, some forced fumbles, maybe a pick and a defensive TD and usually he'll have one or two of those "great" games a season where he just racks up 3 sacks and a pick or something. So thats the game we lost, the game that affects our W/L column. But that doesn't mean trading him was the wrong move. It was the right move for a rebuilding team to find value in players who aren't going to contribute to the winning effort down the line.
 
We are a worse defense without JT this year for sure but the gamble is that the 2 rd pick will help us REBUILD. If this were another regime like Wanny and Co. id be pissed that the pick would be wasted but im happy parcells and co. know what they are doing
 
I think everyone would agree JT will be missed. But after 1-15 we certainly couldn't get much worse record wise. So does it really matter if we're worse off, when we're already as bad as can be?

This trade was a win-win-win situatiuon for JT and both franchises. I'll always be a JT fan no matter where he plays, but now with TC starting tomorrow, I am excited to see who his successor will be.
 
As I said, if you're just talking about stats and comparative player talent, certainly we lost something with JT gone (even though his age is a major consideration at this point and he is NOT the same player as a few years back).

But there's another dynamic to consider --- and that's the TEAM dynamic, and I don't believe JT was going to be a positive in that column at all. In fact the entire saga with him was self-evident of that basic point. So it’s not a stretch IMO to say that it’s possible the development of our defense is ahead of the game with a younger, hungrier player in his position.

More than that, as others have highlighted, JT’s “game” isn’t exactly what the current position spec is all about --- though I have no doubt the staff could find ways to utilize JT’s talents in an effective manner.

But would he be a positive locker room presence and a hard-working team role model? That part of the equation would have been a net NEGATIVE to this team and you can bet Parcells wasn’t into that “dance” at all… At least that’s my take.
 
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