****Justin Herbert Super Thread****

[Phinatic8u]

Its college. You either produce or don't..Oregon easily was the most talented team in the PAC 12 and he still never dominated..

Tua, Burrow, Lawrence all dominate with superior talent surrounding them. Herbert has been meh since he's been starting qb.

 

[LargoFin]

It's no ones fault Herbert did not put up numbers, did not drive the offense, like McDonald or Burrow or Gordon. He had weapons. Juwan Johnson is an excellent receiver and so was his TE. He had a great defense that gave him chances. He just did not do it.
He is minimally competent to be a first round pick and is slotted where he should be in the draft. He is similar to Carson Wentz. There are a lot of things to like, but he will not be slinging it and driving the offense with his arm, but with his great decision making and conservative play.

 

[ChambersWI]

Its college. You either produce or don't..Oregon easily was the most talented team in the PAC 12 and he still never dominated..

Tua, Burrow, Lawrence all dominate with superior talent surrounding them. Herbert has been meh since he's been starting qb.

Now in fairness to Hebert pet me point out that Burrow only dominated once the offense was opened up. And even then let's not act like Herbert had awful seasons in either of his 2 full seasons as a starter (first 2 he only played 8 games each)

 

[BlueFin]

Oregon played a conservative offensive because the coaching staff knew his limitations

No... it’s actually a well documented flaw of Cristobal... and the point of the thread to debate.

Again... the Dolphins have spent a lot of time on Herbert...if they draft him I think the point will be one they see as well.

 

[Locke]

It's no ones fault Herbert did not put up numbers, did not drive the offense, like McDonald or Burrow or Gordon. He had weapons. Juwan Johnson is an excellent receiver and so was his TE. He had a great defense that gave him chances. He just did not do it.
He is minimally competent to be a first round pick and is slotted where he should be in the draft. He is similar to Carson Wentz. There are a lot of things to like, but he will not be slinging it and driving the offense with his arm, but with his great decision making and conservative play.

No one’s fault? LOL?

 

[Phinatic8u]

Now in fairness to Hebert pet me point out that Burrow only dominated once the offense was opened up. And even then let's not act like Herbert had awful seasons in either of his 2 full seasons as a starter (first 2 he only played 8 games each)

That's a big reason I don't like Burrow as much as others....BUT Burrow got surrounded and had the best season ever. Herbert hasn't come close to even great seasons.

 

[tay0365]

I still see so many of the same traits in Herbert as I did in Tannehill. Sometimes he really looks the part, makes all the throws and has flashes of brilliance.... until the game matters most. In those moments, Herbert just like Tannehill, have a tendency to fall short.

Would you consider the Rose Bowl a game where it matters most, because he sure looked good.

Don't get me wrong, I sm also a fan of Tua, but getting Herbert is not a bad Thing if Miami decides not to because of injury comcerns, or someone jumped us.

As I said, let the draft come to Miami...With all the picks they have, Miami could make a killing.

 

[BlueFin]

It's no ones fault Herbert did not put up numbers, did not drive the offense, like McDonald or Burrow or Gordon. He had weapons. Juwan Johnson is an excellent receiver and so was his TE. He had a great defense that gave him chances. He just did not do it.
He is minimally competent to be a first round pick and is slotted where he should be in the draft. He is similar to Carson Wentz. There are a lot of things to like, but he will not be slinging it and driving the offense with his arm, but with his great decision making and conservative play.

You are ignoring Cristobal’s conservative philosophy... which Was far different than the offenses run by Alabama and LSU... but if your mind is closed we will see how it plays out.

 

[BlueFin]

Herbert did work a lot of short horizontal passes in that scheme, it makes you wonder if he can run a more vertical game, which the answer is yes of course he can. The big issue with him is he is a wheel of fortune type player, meaning, one spin you get a trip to Tahiti with him unleashing some seed for a 35 yard strike between 2 guys or running and breaking tackles for a 35 yard TD. The next spin is bankrupt, and he stares down a guy and throws it into the numbers of a defender. He isnt totally consistent over a whole game. He will have 20 great snaps, then 5 good, then 10 wtf snaps, then 10 good and finally 5 GREAT snaps to win a game. Overall his numbers are good but he really only had pockets of elite play. Whereas Tua and Burrow have shown (Tua more because he has been elite since he stepped on a field and Burrow needed time to acclimate to LSU) the ability to play an entire game great, then the next game play that great and so on...Tua on one leg 2 weeks of surgery almost out dueled Burrow and made several throws that I still cant really wrap my head around, they were that good. Burrow had the craziest run through NFL QBs in recent memory (Tua, Fromm, Hurts, Lawrence) smoking all of them except Tua

And as far as Tua's injury history...before his hip injury even with the ankles and stuff Tua missed one game total. So he is tough and like most players in the NFL gets nicked up; but his play never dipped, on bum ankles he was still putting up crazy game after crazy game. Herbert has been healthy and won games with a lesser supporting cast so he has abilities you drool over but can he develop the SKILL needed in the NFL because we know he has talent. And does his leadership style (or lack thereof) really effect where teams see him and more importantly has Flo and staff decided the mentality of the QB they want, because the HC and QB have to be able to vibe. And does that mentality meet up with Herbert because talent be damned if HC doesnt like you or your mentality.

You have a great passer in Tua... who in two full seasons starting... had four lower extremity surgeries...he clearly is a highly risky pick as someone you can expect to remain healthy in the NFL... no matter how tough he is.

Some guys just aren’t durable....I prefer Burrow, Herbert and Love to this huge gamble.

 

[LargoFin]

You are ignoring Cristobal’s conservative philosophy... which Was far different than the offenses run by Alabama and LSU... but if your mind is closed we will see how it plays out.

Yes, my mind is closed by what he produced. We will be drafting a guy who has not done it, and that's the end of it. That said, he has done really well and is a first round QB and can go #1 overall therefore.

 

[fishbanger]

Hebert lost to Auburn - Interceptions when game is on the line - Coach don't trust Hebert to put game in his hands
Burrow YEs
Tua Yes - even first game after ankle surgery - he's the man
Look at Loves 2018 stats with offense he was comfortable with -
Hebert had to stay an extra year in college because his draft status was not that positive

 

[BlueFin]

Hebert lost to Auburn - Interceptions when game is on the line - Coach don't trust Hebert to put game in his hands
Burrow YEs
Tua Yes - even first game after ankle surgery - he's the man
Look at Loves 2018 stats with offense he was comfortable with -
Hebert had to stay an extra year in college because his draft status was not that positive

There are many that think they were far too conservative against Auburn... who was a quality opponent with a very good defense... this is the point of thread.....

Was Herbert’s play a product of an ultra conservative Cristobal (think Dave Wannatedt)... or was he not trusted by the coaches?

I’m leaning towards the evidence that supports Cristobals ultra conservative approach.

I think Herbert is a guy who should be attacking the field.

 

[Phinatic8u]

There are many that think they were far too conservative against Auburn... who was a quality opponent with a very good defense... this is the point of thread.....

Was Herbert’s play a product of an ultra conservative Cristobal (think Dave Wannatedt)... or was he not trusted by the coaches?

I’m leaning towards the evidence that supports Cristobals ultra conservative approach.

I think Herbert is a guy who should be attacking the field.

That conservative offense didn't tell him to send the last pass of the game into the 3rd row behind the endzone

 

[Dolphinator530]

Would you consider the Rose Bowl a game where it matters most, because he sure looked good.

Don't get me wrong, I sm also a fan of Tua, but getting Herbert is not a bad Thing if Miami decides not to because of injury comcerns, or someone jumped us.

As I said, let the draft come to Miami...With all the picks they have, Miami could make a killing.

The Rose Bowl is an odd example because he ran well and showed athleticism but was eh throwing the ball, his completion percentage was high but outside of one 28 yard completion he had 110 yards on 13 completions for like 8.46 YPC. It was a microsocm of his style of play, a few great plays where you are like okay lets see this develop and then an equal number of WTF dude how can you throw that or how can you not see the guy streaking down the sidelines wide open. Wisconsin was okay with pass defense but only had 20 sacks (Young had 16.5 by himself) and 5 picks so they were not a ball hawking pressure defense. Plus they gave up like 5.5 YPC so people ran up and down the field on them. So his in ability to really generate offense against a meh defense and look completely average against the best defense in the pac 12 in Utah, his running game won that game for them. You see every tool in the world to build on but you wonder where the other elements needed for success lie.

 

[-81- McMichael]

Seeing a lot here!

Pocket awareness, play-action passes, rolling out of the pocket and throwing accurately on the run, touch/feather passes, bullet quick throws, scrambling ability (runs well for a big guy), enthusiasm (running to WR to celebrate after big TD catch), even a good stiff arm on a QB run.

Just wondering, again, if this isn't who we should be looking at - especially considering the production with a team that wasn't the best coached or loaded with talent (like Alabama) at every position.

What do you think?