Karlos Dansby will not be franchized per Adam Schefter

[hoops]

b/t looks like talent-scout has returned...hide your pelvis

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Willie Parker was a physical phenom that was a backup his entire college career. Ronnie Brown was a "backup" to Cadillac Williams. He was also a physical freak.

Hell, Barry Sanders was just a backup to Thurman Thomas his first two years at Oklahoma State.

And you go ahead and tell NFL GMs that LaRon Landry sucks. See what they say.

I understand....trust me....Trent Richardson is stuck behind Mark Ingram...

I just think the attaching "freak" to a player that hasn't produced and sticking him at the top of your draft board based on that will get you a one way ticket to an ESPN chair quick, fast, and in a hurry....

Why would I ask a GM about Landry when all I had to do was watch him play? He's getting worse....he's a terrible, terrible open field tackler....worse than Sean Smith...and I'm not exaggerating...

 

[hoops]

I understand....trust me....Trent Richardson is stuck behind Mark Ingram...

I just think the attaching "freak" to a player that hasn't produced and sticking him at the top of your draft board based on that will get you a one way ticket to an ESPN chair quick, fast, and in a hurry....

Why would I ask a GM about Landry when all I had to do was watch him play? He's getting worse....he's a terrible, terrible open field tackler....worse than Sean Smith...and I'm not exaggerating...

come on slimm...that's crazy...sean smith is the gold standard for poor tackling

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

come on slimm...that's crazy...sean smith is the gold standard for poor tackling

He's got some healthy competition in the form of Landry....thing is Landry is getting worse....I expect Smith to get better...

 

[ckparrothead]

Gotta ask Ck because I really have been high on Ireland what is your opinion and or what are you seeing when you said? "Too bad Parcells doesn't run Miami's drafts anymore"
I will go ahead and say Thanks for your input by the way on this matter.

What I'm saying is that Jeff Ireland is Miami's GM and Bill Parcells is very careful not to overstep himself. Parcells is basically in retirement right now. He gets to be around players, around an organization, he gets to help, he uses his reputation to intimidate players and get things done, he gets to do things like go around the Shrine practice gabbing with friends in the business and watching players, he gets to watch film, and he also gets to go watch pitchers and catchers which is one of his favorite things, go up to Saratoga and watch the races, etc.

He does not run Miami's drafts. He does not run Miami's free agency strategy.

He consults.

They look to him for advice because they both admire him greatly and owe him a lot, and because in the end he's got his finger on the button of whether they're hired of fired. But, it is written right into Jeff Ireland's contract that he has final say on all personnel matters. It had to be written that way in order to get him out of Dallas.

I've seen these two (Parcells and Ireland) interact. They joke with each other, they discuss prospects with one another, they both love football and love football players. But Ireland is the guy that makes the decisions and he's not afraid to disagree with Bill Parcells. Parcells liked Chris Long. Ireland liked Jake Long. Jake Long is a Miami Dolphin. Chris Long is not. Ireland and the entire scouting staff all liked Terrence Newman in Dallas. They weren't afraid to tell Parcells that even though his favorite was Kevin Williams. Ireland liked DeMarcus Ware. Bill liked Shawn Merriman. Jeff and Jerry managed to convince Bill that DeMarcus was the right guy. Parcells likes big players. He would never want to go with a Bob Sanders. Ireland is a huge Bob Sanders fan and if he'd been available as a free agent (and he still might be) Ireland might have grabbed him.

As for what I think about Jeff Ireland, I think of him as Rick Spielman with the advantage of having been influenced on team building by Bill Parcells. That gives Jeff better grounding, some more appropriate conservatism. Spielman and Ireland are both football geeks. That's what they love, they love watching football players, they love studying the film and they love identifying keen traits in the players, seeing who is the best, etc. But I think where Spielman has made mistakes in the past is in sort of getting a little too desperate, a little too rash, going overboard, etc. He needed more grounding. He took a group of backup QBs and developed some great stat based system to try and tell him which guy would be the next great thing. IMO he totally lost sight of one more option, that none of them were the next great thing. When you have Parcells in your court I think you have more perspective, more grounding...someone that will look at you like you grew a third eye when you try and tell him you've developed this great system to tell you which among these four players is the next great QB. Someone brash whose arrogance you admire that gives you the confidence NOT to cave in and make expensive moves out of desperation.

That's what I think.

 

[Mr. Magoo]

He also preferred Vontae Davis over Clay Matthews....obviously either would've been fine...

He also preferred Pat White over Max Unger.....Patrick Turner over Jerraud Powers, etc...

I like Spikes too....in the 2nd round.....if he prefers Spikes over McClain at #12 he's lost his mind...

I wouldn't say he does. More likely he views McClain as a late first round, early second round guy.

Karlos Dansby, after all, for all of his physical gifts, was taken at the bottom of the 2nd.

But even more likely is that Ireland might simply believe -- as at least some of us on here do -- that while McClain is an impressive prospect with a lot of good things to say for him -- Spikes is simply a better fit for us.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

I wouldn't say he does. More likely he views McClain as a late first round, early second round guy.

Karlos Dansby, after all, for all of his physical gifts, was taken at the bottom of the 2nd.

But even more likely is that Ireland might simply believe -- as at least some of us on here do -- that while McClain is an impressive prospect with a lot of good things to say for him -- Spikes is simply a better fit for us.

..and I can understand that....I don't necessarily agree with it...but I can certainly appreciate that point of view...

Spikes is a better fit for a certain LB position and it's individual responsibilities.......as is McClain a better fit for a certain LB position and it's individual responsibilities...

McClain is a fit in any defense....Spikes is more limited schematically IMO...

When Ireland spoke with hoops about Spikes....Pasqualadotti was the DC...not Mike Nolan...

If Miami wants a guy to do the grunge work for the most part close to the LOS and not really expect much out of him in terms of production/impact plays, etc....they already have him in Crowder....

If they need a guy that's always going to be in the right spot...take the proper angles....sniff plays out before they start....read and react quickly with excellent instincts....not allow himself to be tied up on blocks....not overpursue and take himself out of the play.....possess a knack for being in the right place in coverage and getting his hands on passes....and secure ball carriers to the ground......

...then McClain is the type of linebacker they need in there....anyone that says McClain can't cover is immediately dismissed as ill informed by me....they simply haven't watched McClain play at Alabama, nor understand what his responsibilities were in Saban's defense.....period...

 

[Mr. Magoo]

If Miami wants a guy to do the grunge work for the most part close to the LOS and not really expect much out of him in terms of production/impact plays, etc....they already have him in Crowder....

anyone that says McClain can't cover is immediately dismissed as ill informed by me....they simply haven't watched McClain play at Alabama, nor understand what his responsibilities were in Saban's defense.....period...

Hard to rectify these two things when you consider that Spikes had 6 ints, 1 fumble forced and 4 TDs at Florida.

Say what you want about Spikes not really playing true coverage/spying the QBs eyes. But it's hard to swallow the argument that anyone who doubts McClain's greatness in coverage is dismissed as not knowing what they're talking about by you while you simultaneously ignore Spikes' big play ability and production.

And this isn't some coy way of stating that McClain can't cover. In my opinion, he has the kind of relatively stiff hips that would normally be a liability in coverage but usually is able to balance this out with great recognition and anticipation, allowing him to get a jump on the action. You can make the argument that his ability to make up for this physical limitation would be lessened in the pros where the athletes and the technique is a quantum leap better, but I would probably argue this is splitting hairs. For the most part he is perfectly fine in coverage.

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

Hard to rectify these two things when you consider that Spikes had 6 ints, 1 fumble forced and 4 TDs at Florida.

Say what you want about Spikes not really playing true coverage/spying the QBs eyes. But it's hard to swallow the argument that anyone who doubts McClain's greatness in coverage is dismissed as not knowing what they're talking about by you while you simultaneously ignore Spikes' big play ability and production.

And this isn't some coy way of stating that McClain can't cover. In my opinion, he has the kind of relatively stiff hips that would normally be a liability in coverage but usually is able to balance this out with great recognition and anticipation, allowing him to get a jump on the action. You can make the argument that his ability to make up for this physical limitation would be lessened in the pros where the athletes and the technique is a quantum leap better, but I would probably argue this is splitting hairs. For the most part he is perfectly fine in coverage.

Standing 1 or 2 yards beyond the line of scrimmage in a passing lane and reading the QB's eyes isn't really "coverage".....if you watched Spikes play, that's where his interceptions come from....Charlie Strong always had Spikes in a position to "rob" the QB's throw...it was designed to force the QB to most likely have to attempt the pass there...

They tried it a lot against Bama in the SEC CG this year....except Jim McElwain had Greg prepared for it....you can see several instances of it in the clips that CK provided on Spikes....

McClain got his interceptions covering a zone....downfield....not standing at the LOS or scraping a runningback coming out of the backfield.....you also have to take into the account the number of INT's McClain has caused for his teammates simply by getting his hands on and tipping so many balls in coverage....multiple...

But if stats is where you like to place the emphasis....Spikes has 14 PBU's and 6 INT's in 4 years......McClain has 14 PBU's and 5 INT's in only 3 years...

 

[Mr. Magoo]

Standing 1 or 2 yards beyond the line of scrimmage in a passing lane and reading the QB's eyes isn't really "coverage".....if you watched Spikes play, that's where his interceptions come from....Charlie Strong always had Spikes in a position to "rob" the QB's throw...it was designed to force the QB to most likely have to attempt the pass there...

They tried it a lot against Bama in the SEC CG this year....except Jim McElwain had Greg prepared for it....you can see several instances of it in the clips that CK provided on Spikes....

McClain got his interceptions covering a zone....downfield....not standing at the LOS or scraping a runningback coming out of the backfield.....you also have to take into the account the number of INT's McClain has caused for his teammates simply by getting his hands on and tipping so many balls in coverage....multiple...

But if stats is where you like to place the emphasis....Spikes has 14 PBU's and 6 INT's in 4 years......McClain has 14 PBU's and 5 INT's in only 3 years...

Well, I agree. I recognize how Spikes got his INTs. I accepted this as part of my post, though I admit I haven't broken down every INT to see how they happened. It bears noting, however, that Spikes' "spying" of the QB is not an unheared of coverage in the NFL, nor is it one of those abilities that has no bearing at the next level given how much zone coverage relies on being able to read the QB's eyes.

But I can't help but notice that while you seem to credit Charlie Strong entirely in the above for Spikes being in position to make his plays, you on more than one occasion have taken umbrage at the notion that Saban's scheme is largely to be credited for McClain's ability to do what he does, particularly in run defense.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, I'd say. And in this matter I'd argue that both guys have befitted from each scheme. McClain's stats benefit from Bama's run defense scheme, which funnels the action to him. Spikes' benefit from Florida's pass defense scheme, which allows him to read the QBs eyes and jump passing lanes, rather than having to cover one on one or down the field in deep zones.

 

[hoops]

the bottom line is mcclain does actually have to drop into coverage and run down the field with a coverage responsibility and spikes is pretty much around the los and reading the qbs eyes and jumping the ball from the inside...

i'd say it's much easier at this point for me to say that mcclain is the much more proven coverage lb of the 2 and at this stage i have no idea what kind of coverage lb spikes will or can be given we've never been able to see it on any kind of consistent basis...

spikes is for me a virtual unknown in 1 on 1 coverage down the field...i'm definitely not comfortable saying he'll be effective at it...

not to mention we haven't even gotten a chance to see spikes drop into deep zones to see what kind of awareness and feel he has for that either...

i don't see how anyone can forecast spikes as a good coverage player at the next level...just nothing to hang your hat on that would warrant it to date...

 

[ZachThomas76]

So did I miss the answer? what players are better choices at 12 than Rolando? Im with Hoops, I'm frickin starvin for a legit threat at wr, and I dont pass up him up at 12. I think hes gone by then though.