Kiper Suggest Dolphins trade Back Up | Page 9 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Kiper Suggest Dolphins trade Back Up

AdamD13 said:
That is why I do not bash Kiper.

I am grateful for the seminal role he played in the draft becoming what it is today.

Besides, some of the crazy **** I read on finheaven can make Mel seem rather normal.
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Right. If you back to those early days, there wasn't much on the draft. Hard to believe now with 100 mocks per day.

Kiper's okay. He misses a lot, but all scouts do. I like that he sticks to his guns when he feels strongly about a player.
 
OK.....Take this to the bank. WE ARE NOT TRADING UP TO 4. Mel Kiper is a moron for even suggesting it. As some have said.... If we do trade up to 4 Grier needs to be fired 5 minutes later. Period.

As of now, it’s looking like we will not get Pitts. So, I’m not getting my hopes up there. There’s probably only a 30% chance we get Chase. So the pick is going to be between Smith and Waddle.

That’s what I’m seeing right now.
 
circumstances said:
I never paid any attention to Kiper.

It was the Joel Buchsbaum books, and the Ourlad's Guide to the NFL Draft.

Not sure what years I started getting the Ourlad's.
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I forgot about Ourlad's. Definitely fun to do some self scouting now with Youtube videos etc. At least you get a feel for a player that you might not have ever seen, like a Collins at Tulsa.
 
FinSolari said:
He would trade back to 12, receive three 1st round picks and draft waddle, who he always wanted from the beginning.
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Well, if you believe Waddle can be the next Tyreek Hill, #6 seems about right.

Can’t do nothing about those 3 firsts.
 
DZimmer000 said:
OK.....Take this to the bank. WE ARE NOT TRADING UP TO 4. Mel Kiper is a moron for even suggesting it. As some have said.... If we do trade up to 4 Grier needs to be fired 5 minutes later. Period.

As of now, it’s looking like we will not get Pitts. So, I’m not getting my hopes up there. There’s probably only a 30% chance we get Chase. So the pick is going to be between Smith and Waddle.

That’s what I’m seeing right now.
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This is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard yet.

Kiper is in the click game just like everyone else.

Dumbest crap I’ve seen since Han firing second.
 
Increasingly, I want to see Miami trade up, but not from #6. I'd like to see Miami jump up from #18.

If I were Grier, I'd be targeting the Giants at #11. Package #18 and a 2022 2nd (1320 pts) for #11 (1250 pts).
 
If we didnt trade up for a QB in Tua then I definitely dont see us trading up again to get a TE. I think Grier will be patient again and he probably has a high grade on Pitts, Smith and Chase like most people do and he knows one of them will be there. Makes the decision much easier actually.
 
In most cases, I would laugh at something like this. However, the way things are shaping up, Kyle Pitts looks to be worth taking the (minimal) risk here.

At worst, we give up a future second and the 6th pick. If I am not mistaken, we picked up a 3rd and future 1st rounder with our most recent trades. If Grier and scouts solidify Pitts as skill player numero uno (as they should have by now), there is no problem with cutting your losses & using ammo to go back up to lock in your guy. They already did it once by going back to 6. Atlanta, assured MIA goes TE, will still be able to grab one of the QBs at 6, making us a great trade partner. Miami still will have what... 2 first rounders next year, 2 second round picks this year and 1 next year, and 2 3rds next year? We absolutely have to land Pitts or Chase, but I am willing to give up a future second pick and the 6th pick to get to 4 for the best skill player in this entire draft. Really helps us with leverage on the upcoming Gesicki deal. I typically think Kiper is a d-bag and this is kind of a silly move, but in this particular situation, I would be all in on Kyle Pitts.

Chase is a great consolation prize, but if we end up with Devonta Smith or Sewell, the trade down was a failure. Go up to 4 and grab him, i'm on board. Be aggressive. Land Pitts and Najee Harris at all costs in the first round. Seize the moment. This is exactly what Grier should've been making the ballsy trades (Tunsil/Minkah) for. For the opportunity to get aggressive AF and go get your two TOP guys. Pitts and Najee Harris @ 18 (or even a couple picks higher) will instantly change this offense. GO FOR IT. We still will be in better shape than most teams by sacrificing a future 2nd and going skill positions with our first 2 picks. If you really believe in Tua, this is the move.

...and if Grier & co. honestly eval Chase higher than Pitts, then i'll support it. But I don't see how anyone with eyes does not say Pitts is the #1 skill player coming out of this class.
 
SF Dolphin Fan said:
Loved that guy. It was Kiper and Buchsbaum back then, but I thought Buchsbaum did a much better job. Early on, I think Kiper scouted the scouts, asked questions to teams etc. to put together his reporst. Buchsbaum was more detailed and I couldn't wait for those Pro Football Weekly reports.

That was about it for the 80's. The Sporting News and SI would put out a once a year mock, but there were no Youtube videos, nobody knew anyone from Tulsa unless you lived there!
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No question Joel Buchsbaum was the best. I carried around his draft books throughout college and would be studying them during class, plus on campus while watching the world go by. Buchsbaum had the great dependable lines like "Looks like Tarzan...plays like Jane" plus the terms like bubble butt. Somehow they give Mayock credit for bubble butt when Buchsbaum was using it in print four decades earlier.

Buchsbaum was awesome during the late '70s before the draft was televised. The monthly postseason issues were loaded with draft emphasis. The final pre draft issue was massive and every bit as anticipated as the draft guide itself because it was published later and included late rumors and some ratings changes. Every issue of Pro Football Weekly during the season would have a scouting report article from Buchsbaum, regarding games of the prior week plus whispered scouting nuggets from around the nation. I really disagree that nobody knew anything about Tulsa in that era. Heck, using that example alone I could rattle off many Tulsa players like Steve August, the guy Seattle took in the infamous Tony Dorsett trade with the Cowboys. There is no question I was better informed then than now. When the Dolphins drafted Eric Laakso from Tulane I knew all about him. Likewise Gerald Small from San Jose State. And so forth. You might not see every player but the capsule summaries were so valuable and typically accurate that in many cases it was superior to watching them yourself. I am a huge believer in relying on experts. Joel Buchsbaum was the Steve Jobs of the NFL draft. I'll allow my opinion to be his opinion, with only occasional departure. I'd save VHS tapes of the Senior Bowl and other college all star games to review prior to draft day. That's how the names connected to the players. I'd read all about them for months then go back and see if the video matched my perspective of them via summaries.

Sporting News featured several issues in a row with focus on specific positions. That's what made them stand out. Everyone looked forward to their ratings because they would differ a bit from Buchsbaum and conventional wisdom. There were other sources as well. I'd buy 4-6 scouting books every year, spending over $100 which was a chunk in that era. Let's see, there was the Drugstore List by Jerry Jones (not the same Jerry Jones). That work wasn't as detailed as Buchsbaum but extremely well respected in league circles. Ourlad's came along, plus several others. A few were short lived. They saw the interest level exploding and would have a small ad in Sporting News, touting their new draft guide.

Kiper's blue book broke new ground by being the first to rate the subsequent draft classes. He'd have a listing in back of the best freshman, sophomores and juniors. Kiper would list dozens more prospects at every position than Buchsbaum did. Once it got into the later rounds Kiper's book would still be including everyone while Buchsbaum's Pro Football Weekly guide wouldn't have some names at all, even in small print without summary.

Joel Buchsbaum was a Jewish guy from New York with a raspy voice. Not television friendly at all. That's why Kiper got the gig above Buchsbaum. ESPN in the early years did include a brief interview with Buchsbaum during the draft coverage. It went as expected. Buchsbaum would rattle it off a hundred miles per hour: "Okay, here's the way it went down. Buffalo thought about Jones and fielded several calls but decided to go with Smith due to superior 40 speed...."

Wow, I really miss those days. Buchsbaum was the first one who correctly identified that age was vital for a prospect, that you wanted to go with younger guys who had demonstrated it early. In his early books he would reference age. Then he started including the birthdate for every player at the top of each capsule summary. I had basically all of them memorized, to the point I was actually taking it too far. When my friends and I at USC would debate players prior to the draft I'd be pointing out that one of them was 6 or 9 months younger.

I have no idea how we went from Joel Buchsbaum understanding the value of prodigy status more than 40 years ago to the point it is still being debated today.

Ourlad's Draft Guide is still being published, BTW. I think it is $32 for a print edition. This was going to be the first year since the mid 1970s that I was going to be without a draft book. But I think this thread inspired me to keep the streak going. Ordered. Now I just hope it arrives in time...
 
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