Kyler Murray Vs. Tall Offensive Line

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by TrinidadDolfan, Jan 15, 2019.

  1. Blake the great

    Blake the great A True Fan

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    10 pounds? Try 20
     
  2. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I'll be surprised if Murray weighs less than 195, which would be 9 lbs lighter than Wilson weighed at the Combine.
     
  3. EJay

    EJay Scout Team

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    But Russell Wilson is a couple inches taller (not sure of his wingspan in comparison to Murray) and looks to have more of an over-the-top throwing motion (than Murray) which makes his release point equal to that of a taller QB that doesn't throw from the same angle.

    Wilson also wasn't drafted until the 3rd round. My POV on Murray is that he can succeed similar to or even more than Wilson but that the odds of it aren't so overwhelming that a 1st should be risked on it. I might be ok with a 2nd. But it seems at the moment as if he will go in the 1st which means if the Dolphins want him they'd have to overdraft him as far as I'm concerned.

    But I'm not a pro scout so WTF do I know? Just a humble opinion of someone that's been watching the game since the mid-70's and have a little coaching experience at the amateur level. I know and have seen a lot but am likely wrong more often than I'm right. C'est la vie. ;)
     
  4. Crump

    Crump FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    one of the things that would also be in the back of my mind with Murray as far as a #1 pick. you really want your #1 pick to be an out of the gate starter...unless QB..thats only exception... some QB's take a couple years to develop, even first rounders. what happens if Murray gets tired of this "developmental" time and decides he wants to see action so he says screw it, im going to play baseball. aaron Rodgers sat behind favre for 3 years (yes I know we don't have a favre for murray to sit behind) but whos to say we don't sign a Bridgewater or something too, a bridge QB, and after a year or 2 Murray doesn't say screw this I need to be in the limelight, deuces. not saying he would...but....
     
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  5. finomenal

    finomenal FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Legitimate concern, but that's the risk you take. Next year's class isn't promised. From this class, if Grier only believes in Kyler as the franchise QB, then he should do whatever is necessary to get him.
     
  6. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    No reason to think he wouldn't be the Day 1 starter, so this doesn't concern me.
     
  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    It is flatly incorrect that Kyler Murray is "a couple of inches" shorter than Russell Wilson.

    Russell Wilson is 5105 and Kyler Murray has been measured at 5096 and 5097. This is a matter of record.

    Also when Russell Wilson came out he had the same three-quarters, baseball-like delivery as Kyler Murray does. Not surprising since Russell was himself a star baseball player.
     
  8. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    Saw that Draft Scout has Murray's projected 40 as 4.40. Wouldn't shock me. His quickness is more important, but when a guy can score from anywhere on the field with his legs, it does put some added pressure on the D/limits what they can play.

    Given how well he passes the ball/how awesome his instincts are, his wheels more than offset his size concerns. Special QB.
     
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  9. Crump

    Crump FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    Guys like you and Slimm keep up with the college ranks a heckuva lot more than me, I haven't paid much attention since my Pirates went to **** once Riley left. if some of the draft experts think hes day one starter then that's awesome, if we drafted him and he was special then even better if he could contribute day 1. but there is reason to think that he might not be day 1 starter and crave the limelight. Everyone likes to mention his conference plays no defense, will that be a major learning curve. what do we possess at QB1, I know its the general consensus that RT17 is gone, also seen rumors everywhere of us mentioned to Flacco, Bridgewater, seen Keenums name mentioned if Denver releases him. what the rest of our QB room looks like with him, we're not paying 15 million up for someone to back up a rookie. So where as ill agree with you, that if you think hes Day 1 starter material then that's awesome, ive never questioned you there. but to say zero reason he wont be day 1 starter, that's debatable 7 days a week so missing his name in the lights does have to be somewhere in your mind if you draft him
     
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  10. j-off-her-doll

    j-off-her-doll FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

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    I just don't see the point in using a mediocre bridge QB during a rebuild. None of those guys will take Miami anywhere. They may do enough to win enough games to get a ****tier draft pick. Murray will have room to grow no doubt, but why shield him from action/experience with roster fillers? Why give a guy like that 15M? It doesn't make sense to me, because I don't see any benefits/positive outcomes.
     
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  11. Crump

    Crump FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

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    apologies I got way off topic. this was an entirely different discussion (and it doesn't make sense to me either, I was just throwing it out there). and as long as the offensive linemen aren't **** or horrible technique I wouldn't think itd be as big of a deal. if he has shown zero signs of him being able to play behind a tall OL in college then it should transfer over relatively well in the pros you would hope. as long as his OLineman he had in OK aren't better than what he has in Miami I think he'd be fine. but damn it would be kind of interesting to run a jet sweep rpo with the short qb and Wilson being the motion man, the D might lose both those guys back there
     
  12. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I keep comparing him to Albert Wilson for a reason. To me they're identical in the way that they move, their agility, as well as their long speed. He's not got the same speed of a Tyreek Hill, Jakeem Grant, or Marquis Brown, so let's not go there with it, but he's very, very similar to Albert Wilson. To me, anyway.
     
  13. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I've always been of the belief that the more physically talented you are at that QB position, the more explicit weapons at your disposal between feet, arm talent, and size, the more likely it is that you will be able to play and make an impact as a rookie. The bigger play-maker you are, the more likely you can play immediately.

    I think guys with average tools who are supposed to make their way on their brains and technical skills are the guys that take the most time because nobody comes into the game polished enough to play it at a high level that way.

    But the guys that can run around, throw dimes with power, etc...coaches can simplify things for them, while still finding ways to move the football and score.

    Kyler Murray is the only QB in this draft that I suspect could play in 2019 and look good doing it.
     
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  14. EJay

    EJay Scout Team

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    Thanks for the correction. Sorry, I was led to believe it was close to a 2 inch difference. Do you know how their wingspans compare? If Murray develops more of an over-the-top motion, I wonder how the height of the release points would compare.

    I’ve always loved Murray’s speed and elusiveness. That’s never been a question for me. I follow HS football a ton — a lot more than college and saw Murray numerous times during his time at Allen HS. I’ve never seen a kid dominate like he did — especially in TX. He played a big part in their 57 game win streak that ended after he’d graduated.

    I don’t question the talent. I just have concerns about his size and the risk involved in taking him in the 1st — even though there are example like Wilson that have had success.
     
  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Premium Member

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    I don't know the arm length, nor do I think it matters.

    I don't think Russell Wilson fails to get balls batted down because of an over top delivery or long arms. He's 5'11" with cleats on. The physics are what they are. Defensive linemen are often 6'3" with 34" arms. You're talking about the difference between the ball smacking right into the DL's wrist versus smacking maybe a few inches down his ulna. Does it really matter?

    Todd McShay noted that over the last decade, quarterbacks 6'0" and shorter have gotten FEWER balls batter down at the line than quarterbacks 6'1" or taller. Why is that? It's because short guys have had to learn to pay attention to their passing lanes, moves, slide their feet, etc. Taller players have this false sense of security because hey man, my height's in the prototype, what do I have to worry about amirite?

    And it's not even just Russell Wilson who has had success. Doug Flutie was even smaller than Kyler Murray, and he played football until he was like 43 years old. He took the NFL by storm as a 36 year old back in an era where teams had him playing under center 75% of the time (versus today's quarterbacks who throw from under center maybe 20% of the time). In today's game a 23 year old Doug Flutie would be a star.

    I just think it's amazing that we're watching this incredible talent, this guy who paints Picasso on a football field (see that Kansas State game; I've still got chills), and we're getting hung up on total theoreticals like what is too short or oh my god won't he get hurt, etc.
     
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