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hoops
Tua time!
EJay
Scout Team
That doesn't mean it can't be done. You arbitrarily chose one example where it didn't work.
Denver won a title with an elite pass rusher just 4 seasons ago. Dude even won MVP of the big game.
They had Peyton Manning, but he was on his last legs and not an elite franchise QB anymore. In fact, he only started 9 games that season and nearly threw twice as many INT's than TD's.
They won that title largely on the strength of their defense.
The Dolphins can do the same if they build a dominant defensive line. Imagine if they drafted the likes of Chase Young and Derrick Brown to go along with Wilkins? Or added someone via free agency.
The 2007/08 NY Giants were able to upset the previously undefeated Patriots largely because of their dominant defensive line play that kept the score low.
GG.exe
Active Roster
its harder to build an elite D, takes time, obviously because there are more players to require. an elite qb is just one guy. plus, if you have a really smart DC he can make a D elite with less talented players, 30 yo vets who know the scheme, etc.
No. Just the opposite. With a QB you get a 4-year window, the contract years A "window" refers exclusively to the QB. The QB is the leader, much like the coach, and when you draft one you enter his 4-year contract window, which is his superbowl window.
The odds are this: A QB will not perform on contract in his 4-year window and you will have to replace him after four years, because he failed to give you a chance at a superbowl while on contract to do so. This is where the Dolphins failed, they did not enter a new 4-year window in 2016, and now they had wasted 3 seasons. The Dolphins are not managed well.
This is not the case with Chase Young. He does not have a window so to speak. His whole career is a window. He is a staple player.
The reason the Dolphins must draft a quarterback is to open a superbowl window, a 4-year contract, and go compete. To do that, they must get a good quarterback, and it does not have to be a quarterback at #1 overall. It can be a quarterback in third round, if the quarterback is good. trhey just need a quarterback, not the quarterback.
They could've gotten Drew Lock last year, Rudolph a few year ago, they were available in later rounds which was a blessing. They had to do it, because they had to open the window, and they failed to do it, repeatedly. They do not get the point.
So nxet year it's the same thing, they just need a quarterback, and there will be quite a few to draft and open a window, so it does not have to be a quarterback at the top of the draft. However, if let's say Tua is the only quarterback worth drafting which I doubt, but let's say that is the case, then they need to do whatever it takes to get him, because the whole point is to open the new contract 4-year superbowl window. That is the #1 goal.
They also had the best group of CB's in the NFL, and they had a still-good D. Ware opposite Miller. So, yeah, if you build a truly dominant D, you can have a 1 or 2-year window. Winning within such a small window, though, requires a lot of good fortune.
And when people are sucking off Bosa and promoting the idea of drafting Chase Young instead of Tua, they conveniently forget to mention that SF's secondary has been playing as well as any secondary outside of NE. Before he went down with an injury, Witherspoon was playing great; Sherman is playing great; and Tart and J. Ward have been playing great. DJ Reed is a very talented CB who is having trouble finding playing time. SF's LB's have also been playing really well.
Btw, most people didn't rank Mosley - despite him being really productive at Tennessee and despite him testing as a 95th percentile athlete. When you have a guy like that, he's worth a look - especially at a valuable position like CB. Had him in the top 110 players of 2018.
EJay
Scout Team
NYG didn’t have the best group of CB’s in the NFL when they beat NE.
Point is, there is no black and white answer. There are numerous different ways to build a winning team. The Dolphins didn’t win a SB with one of the greatest franchise QB’s of all time while more than a few teams have won SB’s with average QB’s.
Building a good to great D-line is one direction they could go, given who they drafted last year and who will be available to them next draft.
And if it does indeed need to include top notch DB’s, they already have a pretty good one on the roster.
Rowdy1972
Active Roster
You can can get the QB and build a defense. Its not like we are just going to completely abandon the defense. A good QB allows you a wider margin of error. You certainly can build a great defense but with a good QB you dont have to to win a Super Bowl. Also, you have a wider window to build one in.
Prime example is the wasting of the Jaguars defense for the past couple of years. They made it to the AFC championship (which I would take in a heartbeat), but you are seeing how its gonna be hard to keep everyone signed (and Happy). Their window is closing. In all reality, its already closed this season.
And another example which is probably more glaring is the Chicago Bears. One good season but its hard to maintain with real shitty QB play. I think Bears fans would rather have Watson than their defense who the Bears GM passed on.
Miami Dolphins from the early 2000s. Stout defense. Great running game. Shitty QB play. We know how that worked out and our window shut quick haha
I dont want to be a flash in the pan. I want consistency
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EJay
Scout Team
I don‘t believe we disagree all that much. Of course I’d prefer an elite franchise QB as my #1 building block. If there’s one to be had. There’s much argument on this board as to whether one exists in this draft and/or if the Dolphins will be in position to get him.
I‘m just looking at it from the angle that they aren’t sold on the QB’s in this draft or they don‘t end up in position to select the one they want. In that case, not all is lost! There are other avenues to explore. That’s all I’m saying.
If the Dolphins have the top pick, I’m one that’s hoping they select Tua Tagovailoa, assuming he declares. But I’d be good with Chase Young if they somehow end up with #2 or #3. I just don’t happen to like the other QB’s in this draft as many others seem to.
Rowdy1972
Active Roster
Fair enough. Cant argue there.
hoops
Tua time!
“Sucking off bosa”
really?
really?
Pachyderm_Wave
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I think you bring up a good point. I've read several times that the best quarterbacks weren't taken with the #1 overall pick. They throw out Watson, Rodgers, Wilson, Brady, Brees, Matt Ryan, Mahomes, etc.
The point is, nobody liked them as much either, which is why they lasted as long as they did on draft day. But if teams could know what they know now - they'd be taken #1 overall.
The lesson to be learned, at least in my opinion - is that how much anybody likes a quarterback has nothing to do with anything. But you better get one. Because what's going to happen is, the guy that's being criticized for being too short, arm too weak, too injury prone, bad mechanics, propped up by the system, couldn't even win a starting job, threw too many interceptions, etc.....is going to end up causing everybody who passed on him a lot of heartburn. That's what's going to happen. Just like it has everytime before.
The DE you passed on just isn't going to have that impact when you look back. No matter how good he is.
hoops
Tua time!
that’s true but neither is a off ball lb and we’ve heard an awful lot about how we should have taken luke kuechly over tannehill.
I agree that he was overdrafted based on his college tape even but I totally get why they did what they did tbere.
regardless of what the end result has become. Him having run his course in Miami.
Pachyderm_Wave
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I said I would've taken Kuechly because he had HOF potential while Tannehill had fatal flaws. There's a subtle difference here that you have to be able to pick up on. Every situation is different. I don't think you take what I just said and just run screaming it from the rooftops while paying no mind to what's in front of you. Just be aware of it.
Now, is there a linebacker or a DE in this draft I believe is a clearly better player than Tua? Absolutely not.
I don't think there's a blueprint for drafting or success. I just think you have to be able to have good enough instincts to avoid traps and setbacks.
You don't always draft a quarterback and disregard other talent. The trick is knowing when to do it and when not to. Miami has missed both ways too many times.