Lemon's Contract Status | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Lemon's Contract Status

ckparrothead said:
Cleo Lemon had us in position to score a touchdown against the Bills but time expired after an incomplete passon 1st & Goal from the 1 yard line.

So in just under 3 quarters of play (2 quarters vs. Jets, 10 minutes vs. Bills), Lemon scored 10 points and had an easy extra 7 with time expiring.

Even if you totally throw out the TD we could have had against Buffalo if time weren't expiring, which I think is kind of ridiculous, Cleo has still averaged more points in his time than our season averages.

Cleo was in for 40 minutes (10 minutes Buffalo, 30 minutes Jets). We scored 10 points. 10 / 40 = 0.25 points per minute. 0.25 ppm x 60 minutes = 15 points per game. Multiply the number of touchdowns we've scored on offense this year (22) by 7 points, and add Olindo Mare's 21 made field goals (times 3) and you have 217 offensive points in 15 games, or 14.7 points per game. 15 ppg > 14.7 ppg.

And like I said, that's not even considering our 2nd & Goal against Buffalo.

He assembled a 90.9 QB rating, and the offense gained 238 yards on 45 offensive plays, for an average of 5.3 yards per play.

For the season, we've gained 4,606 yards on 970 plays, an average of 4.7 yards per play.

We've scored more than average under Cleo, and we've gained more yardage than average under Cleo.

Of course I'm positive you're about to give us some lecture on why stats don't matter.
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Here's one thing I took from the Buffalo game. Lemon has a gun which makes him able to be effective in very windy conditions because he can maintain his trajectory because of the velocity he puts on the ball. Joey on the other hand gets too much air on his in the wind and that makes them sail.

He's also better in rain for the same reason. In rain DBs tend to slip back there and if you float passes it gives them time to catch up. If you can drive the ball in the rain like Cleo you can catch DBs before they have recovered.

This is definitely in Cleo's favor because we play in the Northeast

Aside from that I'm not ready to simply proclaim him the winner of this compeition because he scored ten points against the Jets in rain. I know you're ready to do so but I need to see a little more from him, especially in good conditions before I'm ready to make an intelligent decision. I suspect Saban does too
 
I don't think Cleo has a significantly better arm than Joey. Arm strength is not something I'd ever really criticize Joey for, he has plenty of it.

What Cleo has in terms of arm that Joey does not, is better balance and ability to put zip on his passes while running. I guess you'd call it better ability to put zip on the ball from different platforms.

But it doesn't change the fact that he made better decisions, more accurate throws, led a more effective offense, and had us scoring more points.
 
ckparrothead said:
I don't think Cleo has a significantly better arm than Joey. Arm strength is not something I'd ever really criticize Joey for, he has plenty of it.

What Cleo has in terms of arm that Joey does not, is better balance and ability to put zip on his passes while running. I guess you'd call it better ability to put zip on the ball from different platforms.

But it doesn't change the fact that he made better decisions, more accurate throws, led a more effective offense, and had us scoring more points.
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Seems to me thats the same thing Harrington did over Culpepper.
 
ckparrothead said:
I don't think Cleo has a significantly better arm than Joey. Arm strength is not something I'd ever really criticize Joey for, he has plenty of it.

What Cleo has in terms of arm that Joey does not, is better balance and ability to put zip on his passes while running. I guess you'd call it better ability to put zip on the ball from different platforms.

But it doesn't change the fact that he made better decisions, more accurate throws, led a more effective offense, and had us scoring more points.
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Yes for one quarter and one half. I've seen Joey this year have several lights out performances for one half only to fall apart in the second half or vice versa. Let's not put the horse in front of the cart just yet. This is why I'm kind of upset with Saban seeming to indicate that he'll pull Cleo if he's playing poorly. I want to see him for an entire game. I want to know that he can come in the first half and be effective and then come back after halftime when the coaches adjust to what he's doing and be able to be effective against a different scheme
 
adamprez2003 said:
Yes for one quarter and one half. I've seen Joey this year have several lights out performances for one half only to fall apart in the second half or vice versa. Let's not put the horse in front of the cart just yet. This is why I'm kind of upset with Saban seeming to indicate that he'll pull Cleo if he's playing poorly. I want to see him for an entire game. I want to know that he can come in the first half and be effective and then come back after halftime when the coaches adjust to what he's doing and be able to be effective against a different scheme
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I really think Saban is just

A) Diffusing the hoopla over the fact that we just bumped one QB ahead of the other on the depth chart....something the media loves to feast on in general, and

B) Trying to convince the Colts that they should game plan for both a guy that can move, and a guy that doesn't move but gets rid of the ball very quickly.

In reality, even if Cleo struggles, I think he stays in the game...UNLESS Saban feels like the Colts have really prepared to play Cleo Lemon and he feels inserting Joey gives them a competitive advantage in the second half.

Remember, winning is and always will be the #1 goal.
 
ckparrothead said:
I really think Saban is just

A) Diffusing the hoopla over the fact that we just bumped one QB ahead of the other on the depth chart....something the media loves to feast on in general, and

B) Trying to convince the Colts that they should game plan for both a guy that can move, and a guy that doesn't move but gets rid of the ball very quickly.

In reality, even if Cleo struggles, I think he stays in the game...UNLESS Saban feels like the Colts have really prepared to play Cleo Lemon and he feels inserting Joey gives them a competitive advantage in the second half.

Remember, winning is and always will be the #1 goal.
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Now we agree. I think too much is being made of this. Last game....with little meaning.
 
For as long as we had 'playoff' aspirations with that little run .... Joey was going to remain the starter .... Saban surely wouldn't have changed course there for any reason during the 'streak' - except for injury

The Bills game was the breaking point ... there was no reasonable way at that point in the game or season ....

The only problem with that is that now, of course, 1 & 1/2 games will not 'showcase' or give any true indication as to what Cleo may or may not be capable of as a starter ....

But - be that as it may .... Joey isn't \ wasn't going to get any better -- so why not see if there is anything to 'build' on with Cleo ...

I am also not sure if Cleo will be here next year ... why - well because unless we are 100 % confident in Culpepper's recovery and improvement and will promise Cleo the #2 position ... I don't think he stays with us ... meaning IF he gets offered a legitimate #2 position, he'll bite and take it

I hope that we go out and get a Schaub or the like even if it costs a #2 again -- just in case. IF Culpepper comes back next year at full capacity -- then we could trade Schaub in '08 .... someone will surely want him !

Bottom line is this 1 position will keep us from a legitimate playoff run until it is settled - period ..... the Chicago Bears would be challenged to even make the playoffs if they were in the AFC ... we can't make it with defense alone ... we need a QB that 'can' make plays .... we don't need a superstar or a special player
 
I think that if Cleo does have a good game against the Colts, then yeah you could see significant interest in him from our own coaches as well as others.

He's already put together reams of impressive preseason tape.

What you need to know at this point is will he blow chunks when the real lights come on and start playing NOT like he did in preseason, or is he the same guy in preseason and college that he is when starting in the pros. That's what you need to know...and IMO it doesn't take much action to figure that out.
 
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