Lets Come Down From The Clouds On Minkah

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Phinfan31, May 16, 2018.

  1. Phinfan31

    Phinfan31 A True Fan Donator

    Joined:
    Oct 2003
    Messages:
    1,886
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Alright so were all pretty stoked on this kid, right?

    He has the physical tools. He has the brains. He has the will. He has the highlights. He also has the respect from a man that few have ever received. He could be a hall of fame level talent one day.

    That being said...lets fall back to earth a bit and realize that few players ever reach that ELITE status. So lets pick him a part a little bit. Lets get negative (yes, I know we've enjoyed the lack of negativity around here lately) but lets compile any footage of this kid that raises an eyebrow and discuss it.



    Watch these highlights of the National Championship game. I can't blame the kid for the Bulldogs literally going the opposite way of him on every single play...I mean that is a huge positive, right?

    But what I do know, and what really concerns me, is that he is going 50% or less on wayyyy too many of these plays. The plays I'm referring to begin after 1:20 in the video. On many plays he is stopping before the whistle. On many plays he expects his teammates to make the play. This is troubling to me. This was the National Championship. Where is the energy?

    No HOF'er takes a play off. No Dolphins Great ever took a play off. Did Jason Taylor? Did Zach Thomas?

    I don't like what I see in this tape. I invite you all to find more videos (e.g. blown assignments, getting out played physically, etc.) and lets continue this discussion beyond my video. I know it isn't a popular thing to do, but I want to know this kids weaknesses. I want to know what to look for when the season begins.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
    BigNastyFish, 1 dol fan and Stoobz like this.
  2. Birdmond

    Birdmond A True Fan Donator

    Joined:
    Nov 2012
    Messages:
    1,713
    Likes Received:
    294
    Trophy Points:
    83
    This is no fun.
     
  3. rickd13

    rickd13 Scout Team

    Joined:
    Oct 2005
    Messages:
    1,832
    Likes Received:
    348
    Trophy Points:
    83
    If this is the tape you are going to use to demonstrate Fitzpatrick's negatives, than you might as well put him in the Hall of Fame right now. The only slightly negative play I saw on there was when a running back got outside on a running play and he had a bad angle, the running back was already past him so he let up. Other than that I see a kid who lined up all over the field, who stuck his nose in on running plays at him, blitzed from different areas of the field, and played the most sound assignment football I have ever seen from a prospect drafted by the Dolphins. I don't know how much more you could ask from the kid.
     
    Banksy, dahlmarino, dolpns13 and 11 others like this.
  4. rickd13

    rickd13 Scout Team

    Joined:
    Oct 2005
    Messages:
    1,832
    Likes Received:
    348
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I think it is a blast. This is the first time in a long time that it is almost impossible to find anything negative about a Dolphin's first round draft pick.
     
  5. Phinfan31

    Phinfan31 A True Fan Donator

    Joined:
    Oct 2003
    Messages:
    1,886
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Noted. But you didn't address my concerns? And I might add that many other people (non-biased/non-Phins fans) had the same feelings as me in the comments on that video. There was definitely a few plays where he could have contributed and didn't make the effort. He was literally jogging. What if his teammate missed the tackle?

    I know this tape doesn't demonstrate mental errors, etc. which is why I invite anyone else to contribute. Lets hunt down that footage together.

    I figured a good way to kick this thread off would be a discussion about his energy and effort on plays he might not be in the heat of. I think this is an essential attribute at the next level. WR's are notorious for taking plays off, and this reminds me of that. While I think it would be unfair to say hes "taking plays off" here, his intensity is concerning nonetheless. This is the National Championship.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  6. The Goat

    The Goat Escape Goat

    Joined:
    Apr 2003
    Messages:
    5,045
    Likes Received:
    1,564
    Trophy Points:
    113
    ...but I like it up here.

    I get what you’re doing, but I feel this borders on pessimism for the sake of pessimism. A few thoughts:

    1) I watched that, and there were two plays I really disliked. The one on the Michel end run I remember watching live, and going, “Dude, come on.”

    2) This clip didn’t discourage me; it did the opposite. Are there plays where Fitzpatrick stops running full-tilt before the whistle? Sure. But the plays (with the exception of a couple) were well away from him. There’s a line between “high motor” and “playing like a lunatic and ramming into a pile every single play.” The latter gets you personal fouls. What I really liked was watching Fitz’s anticipation in passing lanes. There are at least two times where he baits Fromm, and to his credit, Fromm sees him doing it, and doesn’t take the bait. Fitz is almost always in the right position.

    3) The thing about reminiscing is that it’s selective. Zach and JT are legends, and legends don’t tarnish easily. But I find it difficult to believe they never, ever did the equivalent of what Fitzpatrick did here. The thing is, we have so many more camera angles today than we did during Zach and JT’s college years, so a direct comparison is impossible.

    4) Man, is Fromm impressive.
     
  7. FSU Truth

    FSU Truth Taggart is my Homeboy Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 2013
    Messages:
    10,418
    Likes Received:
    2,255
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You know that scene in the original Incredibles where the teacher takes the video of Dash putting the thumbtack on the teacher's chair...

    [​IMG]

    I'm not even sure what you are referring to, watching the video (and maybe one of the bama guys can correct me on this), but it seems like the Bama player are coached to not pile on. Meaning when you see Minkah slow down, the player is in the process of being taken to the ground, jumping in there at the last second will only lead to a potential penalty.

    Watching through full games I see one of the most sound players to come out in the last 5 or so years.
     
    rickd13 likes this.
  8. TraderJoe

    TraderJoe FinHeaven VIP

    Joined:
    Jan 2007
    Messages:
    582
    Likes Received:
    175
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I have watched and read just about everything on him and he was my top choice throughout and am thrilled we got him. With that said, I have seen that tape before and it’s not good. There are multiple instances there of him appearing to hold back or give up too early. He also gave a huge cushion in coverage and I had wondered if he was not playing at full strength.

    The good news is that I had not seen those traits in anything else I have seen on him and I do believe he is a big time player in our defensive backfield for years to come.
     
  9. crumpdaddy

    crumpdaddy FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Mar 2004
    Messages:
    1,237
    Likes Received:
    282
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I'll take that kind of game from him. but you are correct he did slow up some when he thought that his teammates had the guy instead of playing til the whistle blew. but I don't see it on 50% of the plays. Bakers game footage was a 100 times worse when you look at not going 100% every play. if we're playing him at FS though id assume watch film from 2016 tho
     
    damaster21 likes this.
  10. fansinceGWilson

    fansinceGWilson FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Mar 2016
    Messages:
    3,002
    Likes Received:
    676
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I get what you're doing . . . the reverse of highlight reels. And I agree to an extent. Highlight reels can make Pat White look like a potential GOAT. And I agree it is common for fans to project a rookie as god-like. With that as preface, none of the projections look unreasonable (sans HOF). Given the talent and dedication, seeing a quality starter is within reason.

    No offense, but, yes, all humans take plays off. The question is how many. We don't know. How many ended up allowing a big play? Again, we don't know. I DO like what I see on tape . . . in it's entirety. I'm not going by highlight reels, good OR bad.
     
  11. Vaark

    Vaark Nihil taurus crappus Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Apr 2007
    Messages:
    24,959
    Likes Received:
    2,784
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Using FH as a pathological petri dish , I have come to realize that for every 7-8 members out of 10 who see the glass as "half full" the rest see that same glass as at best 2/3rds empty. I've also come to realize that in many cases it's a hard-wired predisposition or default mindset one reverts back to when fatigued from operating against their grain- and likely not their fault. Personally I couldn't live surrounded by perceived negativity, but that's just me.

    Let me put the OP's mind to rest here. The likelihood that Fitz is who we see him as is better than 99%. We don't need to trust our own perceptions, our "fandom" which really is defined by enthusiastic hope. Instead, we should trust the SOB most of us Fins Fans have come to detest: Nick Saban. Say what you will about him, there is no denying that as an anal perfectionist, he makes Philbin look loosey-goosey. The big difference is that unlike Philbin, he translates those demanding qualities in ultimate successes.

    So if I tell you that Fitz's teammates referred to him as "Saban's son;" that Fitz was the only player invited into coaches strategy meetings; that Saban has actually said thinking about Minkah makes him feel good and that he's one of his all-time favorite players, if not his all time favorite among the legendary Bama rosters, that really should be ALL you need to know vs a few plays that can be interpreted different ways on one ****ing tape!!!!!

    There are so many others to focus hard-wired negativity on; let's not besmirch the best draft pick, (someone who's Mike Mayock's 5th ranked players higher than James & Edmund) we've lucked into in many years even before he takes the field ferchrissake!!!!!!!
     
  12. Ren

    Ren Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 2006
    Messages:
    1,450
    Likes Received:
    803
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I had a Stretch Armstrong when I was a kid. It could stretch pretty far, but not nearly as far as the observation of the OP.
     
  13. Daytona Fin

    Daytona Fin There's one, set for stun Moderator Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 2002
    Messages:
    29,738
    Likes Received:
    2,719
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No
     
    HeavenCent and SCLSU Mud Dogs like this.
  14. Locke

    Locke They looked like strong hands.

    Joined:
    Aug 2008
    Messages:
    11,989
    Likes Received:
    1,121
    Trophy Points:
    113
    OP seems like he’d be fun at a party.
     
    HeavenCent, Coolguy3 and Phinfan31 like this.
  15. miami365

    miami365 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 2007
    Messages:
    455
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    28
    College players are drafted on what they can do, any negatives and there always are are for the respective coaching staff to improve on. At worse his floor is a Chris Clemons with ball skills while the sky is pretty much the upper limit.
     
  16. FSU Truth

    FSU Truth Taggart is my Homeboy Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 2013
    Messages:
    10,418
    Likes Received:
    2,255
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You haven't seen the Incredibles? Excellent movie, easily one of the top 10 "superhero" movies made
     
    dolpns13, Coolguy3 and russianbear like this.
  17. Daytona Fin

    Daytona Fin There's one, set for stun Moderator Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 2002
    Messages:
    29,738
    Likes Received:
    2,719
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, but I did watch Sausage Party, easily the best grocery store movie ever made.
     
  18. spiketex

    spiketex Kiko, El Bravo 47 - the yappy chihuahua Super Donator Donator

    Joined:
    Apr 2007
    Messages:
    6,984
    Likes Received:
    772
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thx Debbie Downer for your cautionary advice not to expect very much, but the reality is that Minkah is really, really good and he can make a huge contribution. Time will tell but don't be surprised when he starts making big plays, like he has throughout his entire college career. I see Fitzpatrick as the best DB to join the team in decades. We got lucky when he fell into our lap.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
    Austin Tatious and miami365 like this.
  19. Blackcreekbandit

    Blackcreekbandit Derek Jeter sits when he pees Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Nov 2008
    Messages:
    1,500
    Likes Received:
    550
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think people are giving the OP too much **** for this thread. It's nice to have some objective views for time to time, especially when they are laid out with respect and well thought out.

    That being said I disagree with the OP I don't feel like his motor or desire to play football will ever be in question during his pro career. @Phinfan31 do you think it's possible minkah made some business decisions during that last game of his college career? Some stars skip bowl games all together so it's not out in left field to think it was possible
     
  20. NY8123

    NY8123 Sophisticated Redneck Administrator Super Donator Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Jan 2008
    Messages:
    22,085
    Likes Received:
    2,766
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A lot of people on here know I don't like taking Bama players, espcially OL and RB. It isn't the Nick (he can go **** himself) Saban thing either. If anything it is that Nick is such a great coach that his players tend to be at their limit coming out of college and while they are solid players in the NFL they never seem to become the player they are supposed to be (think Julio Jones becasue he is obviusoly a shinning example of greatness at both levels).

    With that said I think Fitz is gonna be a stud. Kid has all the tools and he is exactly what this defense needed to be flexible in today's NFL. Loved the pick and I can't wait to see him play.
     
  21. gregorygrant83

    gregorygrant83 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Mar 2009
    Messages:
    5,609
    Likes Received:
    1,128
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Fitzpatrick could be Ronnie Lott minus the thumping, human missile, plays or mentality. Not saying he's not physical, just not at the Lott level.
     
  22. The Goat

    The Goat Escape Goat

    Joined:
    Apr 2003
    Messages:
    5,045
    Likes Received:
    1,564
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You, sir, have clearly never seen "Employee Of The Month."
     
  23. FSU Truth

    FSU Truth Taggart is my Homeboy Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 2013
    Messages:
    10,418
    Likes Received:
    2,255
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I hate Dane Cook, but for some reason, I will watch this and Waiting. Every single time I see it on, I will sit there and watch the whole movie.
     
  24. Stoobz

    Stoobz Scout Team Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    May 2005
    Messages:
    833
    Likes Received:
    323
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Better not look at the tape on our sporty new LB!
     
  25. Csonked Out

    Csonked Out FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Mar 2013
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    1,253
    Trophy Points:
    113
    don't take offseason hope away from us, it's all we have.
     
    jtoomuch, Pandarilla and GUH-sick-EE like this.
  26. Sarnics13

    Sarnics13 FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Jul 2011
    Messages:
    3,664
    Likes Received:
    916
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What is it with the need to find a negative about every little good thing we get. You know I get that our team has been a constant struggle for several years but this is getting ridiculous. This non stop need to nit pick every little thing. Just start another Tannehill basing thread....at least that's been going on for 5 years and is normal. I'm numb to that now.
     
  27. Danny

    Danny Finheaven VIP Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 2003
    Messages:
    19,984
    Likes Received:
    4,097
    Trophy Points:
    113
    EVERY player takes a play off from time to time. Nothing to see here
     
  28. GUH-sick-EE

    GUH-sick-EE Active Member

    Joined:
    May 2018
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    13
    I mean other than the one play you pointed out, the rest of the tape looked fine to me. It's probably his job to keep things in front of him, and you can't do that if you're constantly attacking.

    As to the theme of the post, I agree with @Blackcreekbandit. I see nothing wrong with it, and I'm the first to get annoyed at overly negative people.
     
    Blackcreekbandit likes this.
  29. Phinatic8u

    Phinatic8u Adam ****ing Gase Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Nov 2008
    Messages:
    16,277
    Likes Received:
    2,152
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nah, they just took playoff games off. No biggie.
     
  30. Fintastic17

    Fintastic17 A True Fan

    Joined:
    Aug 2012
    Messages:
    1,885
    Likes Received:
    351
    Trophy Points:
    83
    This is precisely why we are in the clouds over this kid, and exactly why it is warranted.

    He is not perfect, no player has ever been perfect, but all signs (which you so kindly listed) are pointing to this kid being an absolute stud.
     
  31. miamiron

    miamiron A True Fan

    Joined:
    Dec 2005
    Messages:
    10,304
    Likes Received:
    1,005
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ahhh, just read any thread about Tannehill and you'll see negativity galore
     
  32. finmann

    finmann Pro Bowler

    Joined:
    Jan 2005
    Messages:
    4,580
    Likes Received:
    1,230
    Trophy Points:
    113
    lol....you said it better than I could.
     
  33. *Demi*God*

    *Demi*God* Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2008
    Messages:
    846
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Randy Moss is in the HOF and he admitted numerous times he took plays off...
     
  34. dougb123

    dougb123 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2011
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Play at 1:10 Fitzpatrick did everything possible, spun off a block - TE wanted to pancake him, pursued the running back down the line of scrimmage until his point of attack was blocked by a CB once that happened he lost all his speed, linebacker was also blocking his point of attack - I'm not sure what you saw there other than an exceptional play by an good RB freezing the CB and making a play on the edge of the boundary....

    Lesser player would of been taken out by the TE - that was good effort play not a lack of effort

    He will miss play's that forsure all do...over all elite player with elite talent and that all you can ask for.
     
  35. Phinfan31

    Phinfan31 A True Fan Donator

    Joined:
    Oct 2003
    Messages:
    1,886
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Thank you Bandit. I think a lot of these guys are just super sensitive from all the Tannehaters in the past several years. And I actually had contemplated that same thought! I was thinking that its possible he was protecting himself because hes literally one game away from his dream. I also thought that maybe he was just saving the juice whenever he could for the 2nd half since things weren't going as well as Bama wanted.

    To anyone who commented on this as being negative...I'm not trying to spoil the fun here. I simply want to analyze the kid in order to foresee potential areas of struggle. If anyone thought that there is zero concern for his energy in this game, then I challenge you to find a new topic of discussion - (e.g. mental errors, being outplayed physically, etc.) I'm SURE there is footage out there.
     
    GUH-sick-EE and Blackcreekbandit like this.
  36. 1Dolfan

    1Dolfan Starter

    Joined:
    Apr 2006
    Messages:
    410
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    18
    my only knock on Minkah is that he isn't Tremain Edmunds who i think will be a certified all pro.

    i have no real concerns with Minkah but i will keep tabs on Derwin and Edmunds to see if we did get the best player.
     
    MelbournePhin likes this.
  37. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Jun 2004
    Messages:
    16,574
    Likes Received:
    627
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Bad thread...there’s no plays off... he has “contain” responsibilities which means sometimes he is there if the guys in front miss...which team won the game?
     
  38. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Jun 2004
    Messages:
    16,574
    Likes Received:
    627
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Edmunds has far more question marks in his play than Fitzpatrick...so does James.
     
    GUH-sick-EE, Stoobz and djphinfan like this.
  39. BlueFin

    BlueFin Seer of Visions Finheaven VIP

    Joined:
    Jun 2004
    Messages:
    16,574
    Likes Received:
    627
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Fine to be objective....silly to go overboard.

    By all accounts this kid checks all the boxes since his freshman year...as sure fire of a lock as you will find.
     
  40. ANUFan

    ANUFan FinHeaven VIP Finheaven VIP Donator

    Joined:
    Jul 2010
    Messages:
    8,769
    Likes Received:
    947
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not going all out? Hmm what other draft choice did we draft where that concern was brought up?

    Oh yeah..Baker!
     

Share This Page