Lions looking to trade Stafford? | Page 15 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Lions looking to trade Stafford?

mwestberry said:
Ok … then you can't trust Grier to have the aptitude to see that Tua is a great talent IMO … you really can't have it both ways

Serious question though: Does the GM override the HC ? To explain, I thought the HC has input on assistant coaches (to implement schemes and game strategy) and players (who he coaches daily/weekly to execute his plans).
If the HC has a vision to build his team (I assume he must) Does a GM override his vision and pick whoever he wants?

I ask this because Grier gets a lot of flak and when things go south the coach gets fired. It doesn't make sense to me for the GM to buy the groceries and expect the HC to make a meal of it. If so, then the HC position must just be a puppet.
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I think it can vary, depending on the team, and situation.

In most cases, the GM hires the HC, so they probably see eye to eye on the general philosophy. Not all HCs have any scouting background though, whereas Flo does, so I would assume he may have more weight than a young guy who has, primarily, coordinator experience.
 
mwestberry said:
Ok … then you can't trust Grier to have the aptitude to see that Tua is a great talent IMO … you really can't have it both ways

Serious question though: Does the GM override the HC ? To explain, I thought the HC has input on assistant coaches (to implement schemes and game strategy) and players (who he coaches daily/weekly to execute his plans).
If the HC has a vision to build his team (I assume he must) Does a GM override his vision and pick whoever he wants?

I ask this because Grier gets a lot of flak and when things go south the coach gets fired. It doesn't make sense to me for the GM to buy the groceries and expect the HC to make a meal of it. If so, then the HC position must just be a puppet.
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Come on. Anyone with a brain in there head knows that Tua is a great QB prospect and has been since high school. Grier wouldn't be out on a limb making Tua his "stake my name on this QB".

Sure the head coach has input on how he wants the team to be built, but the GM is the guy who has to know how to evaluate. My problem with Grier is that he keeps finding his way to prospects like the Charles Harris's and Michael Dieter's of the world. There were guys on the street that could have told you they weren't good prospects. Every GM is going to have players that don't pan out, but I want the reasoning and the process to lead to the right prospects in the first place reducing the bust rate from the get go and increasing the odds that the player can be productive and maybe even a star.
 
rickd13 said:
Come on. Anyone with a brain in there head knows that Tua is a great QB prospect and has been since high school. Grier wouldn't be out on a limb making Tua his "stake my name on this QB".

Sure the head coach has input on how he wants the team to be built, but the GM is the guy who has to know how to evaluate. My problem with Grier is that he keeps finding his way to prospects like the Charles Harris's and Michael Dieter's of the world. There were guys on the street that could have told you they weren't good prospects. Every GM is going to have players that don't pan out, but I want the reasoning and the process to lead to the right prospects in the first place reducing the bust rate from the get go and increasing the odds that the player can be productive and maybe even a star.
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No one questions the talent a healthy Tua has as a QB. The issue with Tua has everything to do with his ability to withstand the hits he is going to take in the NFL. If you go back and take a look at the hits which caused him to have surgery on both of his ankles and the hit which caused his hip injury, none of those hits appeared that serious. They are the type of hits NFL QB’s take weekly in the NFL.

Most individuals are not build to take the hits that players in the NFL are subject to on a weekly basis during the season. Just because he has a great arm and outstanding football instincts doesn’t mean he has the body to hold up at the NFL level. Especially when his body couldn’t hold up for even 2 years of college football.

If the Dolphins end up drafting Tua, I will certainly root for him to stay healthy and have success in the league. Yet it would not surprise me in the least if he ends up having a very short career in the NFL simply because his body will not hold up from the constant pounding he will receive each week.
 
rickd13 said:
Hopefully Grier is smart enough to jump ahead of the Lions and takes Tua at #2.
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Grier would likely have to give up all three first round picks to move up to 2. An injury prone Tua is just too much of a risk to give up that much draft capital IMO.

Take him at 5 if he is there but hopefully Grier will not trade any draft picks to move up to draft Tua.
 
rickd13 said:
Hopefully Grier is smart enough to jump ahead of the Lions and takes Tua at #2
i am interested in seeing how this Tua situation plays out in 4 yr..I dont know if we should or not take tua.. this is a high risk pick..Grier will be hero or he will get fired...
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1972forever said:
No one questions the talent a healthy Tua has as a QB. The issue with Tua has everything to do with his ability to withstand the hits he is going to take in the NFL. If you go back and take a look at the hits which caused him to have surgery on both of his ankles and the hit which caused his hip injury, none of those hits appeared that serious. They are the type of hits NFL QB’s take weekly in the NFL.

Most individuals are not build to take the hits that players in the NFL are subject to on a weekly basis during the season. Just because he has a great arm and outstanding football instincts doesn’t mean he has the body to hold up at the NFL level. Especially when his body couldn’t hold up for even 2 years of college football.

If the Dolphins end up drafting Tua, I will certainly root for him to stay healthy and have success in the league. Yet it would not surprise me in the least if he ends up having a very short career in the NFL simply because his body will not hold up from the constant pounding he will receive each week.
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Are you kidding? The only injury that would even give GMs pause is his hip injury and that was one of the most freakish injuries anyone could have. The doctors involved with his case said something along the lines that the chances of that injury happening to him again are equivalent of him getting mauled by a bear. The true concern with Tua's hip is lack of blood flow causing the bone to die. That's why his three month checkup was so important. The fracture has healed indicating that the blood flow to the area is healthy. TedSlimm did a great sarcastic post about all of the injuries Joe Burrow had in college yet no one is claiming he is injury prone. He also made a great point about how injuries are like lightning strikes. You just can't predict when or where they will happen. If you play football, at some point you are going to get hurt.
 
rickd13 said:
Are you kidding? The only injury that would even give GMs pause is his hip injury and that was one of the most freakish injuries anyone could have. The doctors involved with his case said something along the lines that the chances of that injury happening to him again are equivalent of him getting mauled by a bear. The true concern with Tua's hip is lack of blood flow causing the bone to die. That's why his three month checkup was so important. The fracture has healed indicating that the blood flow to the area is healthy. TedSlimm did a great sarcastic post about all of the injuries Joe Burrow had in college yet no one is claiming he is injury prone. He also made a great point about how injuries are like lightning strikes. You just can't predict when or where they will happen. If you play football, at some point you are going to get hurt.
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That one doctor on nflnet. Said Tua still got lot work ahead of him to recovery..like 1-2 yr..
 
Mach2 said:
If that were true, we never would have won 5 games.

Just because that is what some ppl told themselves to make it palatable, doesn't make it fact.

No doubt they have thier eye on the future, but it wasn't "all" about that one thing.
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I believe just what I explained prior to the season, it was the plan of Ross, Grier and Flores to tank to get a QB. Grier did an amazing job stockpiling draft picks ... and making us suck ... intentionally. Coach Flo did a decent job of building the team, but his decision to stick with Fitzmagic (whom I backed the entire time), did exactly what I said it would ... caused us to be a little too good to get the top pick. I forcast 5-6 wins with Fitzmagic, and that's exactly what we got. The absolutely counter-productive and needless wins against the Bengals and Patriots are like daggers to the heart. Sure, I can't blame anyone for enjoying the Patriots win ... but man, they took QB choice off the table.

It would be just fine if we drafted a QB at #5, and maybe that QB is Tua, maybe its Herbert, maybe its someone else, but I'm not convinced that Joe Burrow is a guaranteed best QB in this draft ... nor am I convinced that the best QB in this draft is a top 5 pick. As long as we don't squander precious blood-money draft picks to trade UP to get the same guy we would have gotten if we had simply lost to the Bengals, I'm OK. But if we trade up to get Tua or Herbert or Burrow ... I'm going to be unbelievably disappointed.

Use the draft picks we have to draft players. Let's not screw that up like we did tanking.
 
rickd13 said:
Are you kidding? The only injury that would even give GMs pause is his hip injury and that was one of the most freakish injuries anyone could have. The doctors involved with his case said something along the lines that the chances of that injury happening to him again are equivalent of him getting mauled by a bear. The true concern with Tua's hip is lack of blood flow causing the bone to die. That's why his three month checkup was so important. The fracture has healed indicating that the blood flow to the area is healthy. TedSlimm did a great sarcastic post about all of the injuries Joe Burrow had in college yet no one is claiming he is injury prone. He also made a great point about how injuries are like lightning strikes. You just can't predict when or where they will happen. If you play football, at some point you are going to get hurt.
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No I am not kidding. While I think Tua is an outstanding QB when healthy, I just don’t believe his body will hold up in the NFL. You seem to dismiss the two ankle surgeries he had along with a knee injury in just two years in college playing behind one of the best offensive lines in college football. Please name me one single college QB who had three surgeries plus a knee injury in less than two years and then had a prolonged career in the NFL.

I guess you missed it that I stated I would have no problem with the Dolphins drafting Tua at 5 if he is still on the board. At 5 it would be worth the risk because they would still have the rest of their picks to improve the rest of the team. I am just against them trading additional draft picks to move up to take a Tua because I have my own concerns regarding his ability to have a long career in the NFL. Grier is going to do what he wants to in regards to trading up or trading down in the draft. I am just expressing my view concerning Tua but I have no issue with anyone who disagrees with me. That is why they have forums like this to begin with.

As far as Burrow being injured is concerned, every player who plays football has injuries from time to time. Burrow played through his injuries and played at a very high level without missing any games. Tua on the other hand missed several games during his two years at Alabama in which he was the starting QB. Along with the fact he had 3 surgeries and I haven’t read anywhere that Burrow had any surgeries while playing college football.
 
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moley6969 said:
Trading Matthew Stafford would leave behind $32M of dead cap to the #Lions, a loss of $10.7M of space. Detroit has already restructured and paid out a $6M bonus for the season. He’s staying put in 2020. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/matthew-stafford-6078/
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Does this mean that the Lions won't, in a million years, draft Tua because they would have to eat $11 million if they trade Stafford to the Chargers/Panthers/Colts for their first-rounder in one of these forthcoming seasons?

We're acting like Detroit is a threat to win the Super Bowl if Stafford is back. They will be the same old 8-8/9-7 little train that could that they have always been. Patricia's on the hot seat if Stafford is there or not.
 
Talk about the Lions drafting Tua is heating up... Its all media driven obviously but they sure as hell should be considering it as a viable option.
 
DPhinz_DPhinz said:
Does this mean that the Lions won't, in a million years, draft Tua because they would have to eat $11 million if they trade Stafford to the Chargers/Panthers/Colts for their first-rounder in one of these forthcoming seasons?

We're acting like Detroit is a threat to win the Super Bowl if Stafford is back. They will be the same old 8-8/9-7 little train that could that they have always been. Patricia's on the hot seat if Stafford is there or not.
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The Lions would be hard pressed to get a first for Stafford with that contract. There’s a bunch of reasons why it wouldn’t make sense for them to trade him. That doesn’t rule out them taking Tua, but it seems unlikely at this point.
 
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