Look I Made A Nerd Chart And It Doesn't Look Good For Grier | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Look I Made A Nerd Chart And It Doesn't Look Good For Grier

phinsforlife

Active Roster
Joined
Dec 4, 2022
Messages
4,705
Reaction score
8,511
Age
48
Location
san diego
Below is a scatter plot of 2025 cap space versus roster age. This analysis is also a good way of looking at how effective a GM has been. The x-axis is 2025 cap space, and the y-axis is roster age (first being oldest, 32nd being youngest).

You are in a good place if you are young and have a lot of cap space. You are in a tough spot if you are old, and don’t have much cap space. You want to be as close to the upper right corner as you can be – young and with a lot of money. The Dolphins sadly are about as far from the upper right corner as you can be. Green Bay (who just pantsed us), has a QB who is getting paid the same as Tua, still has a lot of cap space, and the youngest roster in the NFL. That is the definition of well run, especially because they are good, and they also won a playoff game last year!

There are exceptions to the rule. If you are old, and don’t have a lot of cap space, but are good, and likely to keep being good because of your QB or something else, that is not a bad spot to be in. That is Buffalo, for example. I didn’t know how to add the third dimension of current record, but if I was able to do that, the chart would also show that the Dolphins are a mess in 3-D.

In addition to being old and up against the cap, we have a losing record, probably won’t make the playoffs, and last year couldn’t win the division or a playoff game. We went all in, and all we ended up with is a big mess. This is akin to doing a crap ton of heroin, and not even getting high. Or going to a brothel, and not getting any action!

For those who say, well cap space can be moved around, that argument does not work. Cap space is a relative issue. All teams can move money around. Those that don’t have to move money around, and have a lot of free space, have a huge advantage getting deals done in free agency, as well as keeping their own players. The Dolphins had to let Wilkins, Hunt, and AVG go last year, because they were at the point choices had to be made. I am not trying to argue pro or con Wilkins and Hunt, but am just point out the fact we had to let them go because we didn’t have the money to keep them, and then also pay the other guys we wanted to keep (some of whom are probably mistakes I still don’t understand paying through the nose with term for Ramsey at his age, for example).

Further if I added a 4th dimension, the Dolphins would even look worse again. The 4th dimension would be called duration of the cap problem. Some teams who look to be in a tough spot in 2025 may be eating their final cap hits then. The Dolphins have already pushed so much money into the future, they will be dealing with this problem for years. For example, Tua’s cap hits only partially kick in next year, and will not be fully felt until 2026. Waddle is shoved out until 2027 and 2028. We have already restructured so many deals, and pushed so much money into the future, Over the Cap has us with bottom 5 cap space for 2026 and 2027 too! Again remember cap space is a relative issue, so even if we can move more money around then, we are just on a continual treadmill with no real freedom. It is akin to running in place to stand still.

My view – two possible things can happen. Continue to extend and pretend, and we will have years of mediocrity or you start dealing pieces of for draft capital and cap relief. I would start with the WR position if we can strike a good deal for Waddle or Tyreek. You just cannot have that much cap space tied up in the WR position. And you really don’t need to either – there is only one football to go around.

You need the rosiest of rose colored glasses to think there is a solution that allows us to get better on paper next year. We have a deficient roster. There are too many holes, and no freedom to clean them up. In fact, given the cap situation, we are going to have to purge more talent next year, and some of our big money guys like Tyreek, Ramsey and Armstead (if he is here) will be a year older too.

On paper we are only going to be getting worse next year. Even if we did deals and got draft picks, you need to draft really well, and draft picks take time to develop. It takes year to rebuild though the draft – you need to stack good drafts on top of each other (something Grier has not been able to do tactically or strategically re team building), and it just takes time.

We have gone all in, and all we got for it is a big stinking mess and an unsolvable problem. How Ross can look at this situation and keep Grier is beyond me, but if I were forced to bet, he still keeps Grier (and McDaniel). If he doesn’t, I cannot imagine a competent GM wanting to step into this mess. It is a no win situation.

Chart is below, and below that is the table with all the data so you can figure out which team is which.

1733290767767.png


2025​
Roster Age​
Cap Space
Oldest
Patriots
$132,508,830​
21
Cardinals
$113,435,282​
15
Raiders
$112,191,156​
26
Commanders
$99,844,458​
8
Bears
$82,037,877​
10
Vikings
$76,467,385​
5
Chargers
$76,142,855​
28
Titans
$65,002,520​
19
Bengals
$64,686,259​
3
Packers
$62,749,872​
32
Lions
$62,061,023​
22
Jaguars
$61,818,617​
20
Giants
$60,280,222​
24
Broncos
$57,898,450​
30
Rams
$55,691,158​
31
Steelers
$53,929,547​
9
Colts
$50,795,039​
23
49ers
$49,239,267​
7
Panthers
$33,604,119​
2
Jets
$32,844,610​
11
Eagles
$32,062,970​
27
Buccaneers
$24,588,829​
29
Cowboys
$23,125,460​
14
Chiefs
$21,880,672​
25
Ravens
$17,991,981​
17
Texans
$14,554,366​
12
Bills
$8,111,553​
1
Falcons
$7,471,301​
13
Dolphins
$3,696,220​
6
Seahawks
($7,027,972)​
18
Browns
($14,412,572)​
4
Saints
($62,801,756)​
16
 
Last edited:
Below is a scatter plot of 2025 cap space versus roster age. This analysis is also a good way of looking at how effective a GM has been. The x-axis is 2025 cap space, and the y-axis is roster age (first being oldest, 32nd being youngest).

You are in a good place if you are young and have a lot of cap space. You are in a tough spot if you are old, and don’t have much cap space. You want to be as close to the upper right corner as you can be – young and with a lot of money. The Dolphins sadly are about as far from the upper right corner as you can be. Green Bay (who just pantsed us), has a QB who is getting paid the same as Tua, still has a lot of cap space, and the youngest roster in the NFL. That is the definition of well run, especially because they are also good, and they also won a playoff game last year!

There are exceptions to the rule. If you are old, and don’t have a lot of cap space, but are good, and likely to keep being good because of your QB or something else, that is not a bad spot to be in. That is Buffalo, for example. I didn’t know how to add the third dimension of current record, but if I was able to do that, the chart would also show that the Dolphins are a mess in 3-D. In addition to being old and up against the cap, we have a losing record, probably won’t make the playoffs, and last year couldn’t win the division or a playoff game. We went all in, and all we ended up with is a big mess. This is akin to doing a crap ton of heroin, and not even getting high. Or going to a brothel, and not getting any action!

For those who say, well cap space can be moved around, that argument does not work. Cap space is a relative issue. All teams can move money around. Those that don’t have to move money around, and have a lot of free space, have a huge advantage getting deals done in free agency, as well as keeping their own players. The Dolphins had to let Wilkins, Hunt, and AVG go last year, because they were at the point choices had to be made. I am not trying to argue pro or con Wilkins and Hunt, but am just point out the fact we had to let them go because we didn’t have the money to keep them, and then also pay the other guys we wanted to keep (some of whom are probably mistakes I still don’t understand paying through the nose for Ramsey at his age for example).

Further if I added a 4th dimension, the Dolphins would even look worse again. The 4th dimension would be called duration of the cap problem. Some teams who look to be in a tough spot in 2025 may be eating their final cap hits then. The Dolphins have already pushed so much money into the future, they will be dealing with this problem for years. For example, Tua’s cap hits only partially kick in next year, and will not be fully felt until 2026. Waddle is shoved out until 2027 and 2028. We have already restructured so many deals, and pushed so much money into the future, Over the Cap has us with bottom 5 cap space for 2026 and 2027 too!

My view – two possible things can happen. Continue to extend and pretend, and we will have years of mediocrity or you start dealing pieces of for draft capital and cap relief. I would start with the WR position if we can strike a good deal for Waddle or Tyreek. You just cannot have that much cap space tied up in the WR position. And you really don’t need to either – there is only one football to go around.

You need the rosiest of rose colored glasses to think there is a solution that allows us to get better next year. We have a deficient roster. There are too many holes, and no freedom to clean them up. In fact, given the cap situation, we are going to have to purge more talent next year, and some of our big money guys like Tyreek, Ramsey and Armstead (if he is here) will be a year older too.

On paper we are only going to be getting worse next year. Even if we did deals and got draft picks, you need to draft really well, and draft picks take time to develop. It takes year to rebuild though the draft – you need to stack good drafts on top of each other (something Grier has not been able to do tactically or strategically re team building), and it just takes time.

We have gone all in, and all we got for it is a big stinking mess and an unsolvable problem. How Ross can look at this situation and keep Grier is beyond me, but if I were forced to bet, he still keeps Grier. If he doesn’t, I cannot imagine a competent GM wanting to step into this mess. It is a no win situation.

Chart is below, and below that is the table with all the data so you can figure out which team is which.

View attachment 179332


2025​
Roster Age​
Cap Space
Oldest
Patriots
$132,508,830​
21
Cardinals
$113,435,282​
15
Raiders
$112,191,156​
26
Commanders
$99,844,458​
8
Bears
$82,037,877​
10
Vikings
$76,467,385​
5
Chargers
$76,142,855​
28
Titans
$65,002,520​
19
Bengals
$64,686,259​
3
Packers
$62,749,872​
32
Lions
$62,061,023​
22
Jaguars
$61,818,617​
20
Giants
$60,280,222​
24
Broncos
$57,898,450​
30
Rams
$55,691,158​
31
Steelers
$53,929,547​
9
Colts
$50,795,039​
23
49ers
$49,239,267​
7
Panthers
$33,604,119​
2
Jets
$32,844,610​
11
Eagles
$32,062,970​
27
Buccaneers
$24,588,829​
29
Cowboys
$23,125,460​
14
Chiefs
$21,880,672​
25
Ravens
$17,991,981​
17
Texans
$14,554,366​
12
Bills
$8,111,553​
1
Falcons
$7,471,301​
13
Dolphins
$3,696,220​
6
Seahawks
($7,027,972)​
18
Browns
($14,412,572)​
4
Saints
($62,801,756)​
16
It looks like the Packers have one more season to mask their overrated QB's deficiencies with talent before they are god awful. I don't care about this list because Grier has managed to perform miracles with our roster while averaging 4 late round draft picks over the past two seasons. I'm sure we will be better next year.
 
It looks like the Packers have one more season to mask their overrated QB's deficiencies with talent before they are god awful. I don't care about this list because Grier has managed to perform miracles with our roster while averaging 4 late round draft picks over the past two seasons. I'm sure we will be better next year.
you are being sarcastic, right?
 
you are being sarcastic right?
Campbell, Brooks, Walker, Chop, Fuller, Jonnu, Brewer, Wright, while over the cap by like 20 million at the end of last season. That's amazing. And a lot of people thought Poyer would be an upgrade too. But it's not Grier's fault the coaches chose him over Maye. Who is playing on a top 3 defense with Tart in LA. And the LBer Long Jr. we cut is starting in Detroit about to win a Super Bowl. But yeah. He sucks as a GM.
 
Glad to see we are at least in black numbers………..

We will have a cap increase in 2025 that will help

There are numerous posts on here that outline several moves with Chubb, Armstead and a few others that get us in the $40m-$50m range

We certainly aren’t rich, but we are far from destitute

The bigger challenge is drafting better to replace those players we move on from
 
Glad to see we are at least in black numbers………..

We will have a cap increase in 2025 that will help

There are numerous posts on here that outline several moves with Chubb, Armstead and a few others that get us in the $40m-$50m range

We certainly aren’t rich, but we are far from destitute

The bigger challenge is drafting better to replace those players we move on from
What OP said is correct, though. You have to consider the context relative to other teams. Compared to the rest of the league, we are not in a good position over the next couple years. If you are bidding for FAs, the teams that have more to spend get the best players as a rule. Yes, there are exceptions but the odds aren't good. The cap increases for all teams. That is nothing more that a push in the grand scheme.

Sure there are some moves to create space, but that is not a zero sum game. It is a net overall loss. That kind of thinking is a big part of how we ended up here.

I often see ppl promoting the idea of post June first designated cuts as a positive option. All that does is kick the can even farther with future dead money, usually after already restructuring these players. IOW we would be kicking the can multiple times.

Can we eek by year to year with this approach? I guess so, but is it really the best way to do business?
 
Last edited:
Below is a scatter plot of 2025 cap space versus roster age. This analysis is also a good way of looking at how effective a GM has been. The x-axis is 2025 cap space, and the y-axis is roster age (first being oldest, 32nd being youngest).

You are in a good place if you are young and have a lot of cap space. You are in a tough spot if you are old, and don’t have much cap space. You want to be as close to the upper right corner as you can be – young and with a lot of money. The Dolphins sadly are about as far from the upper right corner as you can be. Green Bay (who just pantsed us), has a QB who is getting paid the same as Tua, still has a lot of cap space, and the youngest roster in the NFL. That is the definition of well run, especially because they are also good, and they also won a playoff game last year!

There are exceptions to the rule. If you are old, and don’t have a lot of cap space, but are good, and likely to keep being good because of your QB or something else, that is not a bad spot to be in. That is Buffalo, for example. I didn’t know how to add the third dimension of current record, but if I was able to do that, the chart would also show that the Dolphins are a mess in 3-D.

In addition to being old and up against the cap, we have a losing record, probably won’t make the playoffs, and last year couldn’t win the division or a playoff game. We went all in, and all we ended up with is a big mess. This is akin to doing a crap ton of heroin, and not even getting high. Or going to a brothel, and not getting any action!

For those who say, well cap space can be moved around, that argument does not work. Cap space is a relative issue. All teams can move money around. Those that don’t have to move money around, and have a lot of free space, have a huge advantage getting deals done in free agency, as well as keeping their own players. The Dolphins had to let Wilkins, Hunt, and AVG go last year, because they were at the point choices had to be made. I am not trying to argue pro or con Wilkins and Hunt, but am just point out the fact we had to let them go because we didn’t have the money to keep them, and then also pay the other guys we wanted to keep (some of whom are probably mistakes I still don’t understand paying through the nose with term for Ramsey at his age, for example).

Further if I added a 4th dimension, the Dolphins would even look worse again. The 4th dimension would be called duration of the cap problem. Some teams who look to be in a tough spot in 2025 may be eating their final cap hits then. The Dolphins have already pushed so much money into the future, they will be dealing with this problem for years. For example, Tua’s cap hits only partially kick in next year, and will not be fully felt until 2026. Waddle is shoved out until 2027 and 2028. We have already restructured so many deals, and pushed so much money into the future, Over the Cap has us with bottom 5 cap space for 2026 and 2027 too! Again remember cap space is a relative issue, so even if we can move more money around then, we are just on a continual treadmill with no real freedom. It is akin to running in place to stand still.

My view – two possible things can happen. Continue to extend and pretend, and we will have years of mediocrity or you start dealing pieces of for draft capital and cap relief. I would start with the WR position if we can strike a good deal for Waddle or Tyreek. You just cannot have that much cap space tied up in the WR position. And you really don’t need to either – there is only one football to go around.

You need the rosiest of rose colored glasses to think there is a solution that allows us to get better next year. We have a deficient roster. There are too many holes, and no freedom to clean them up. In fact, given the cap situation, we are going to have to purge more talent next year, and some of our big money guys like Tyreek, Ramsey and Armstead (if he is here) will be a year older too.

On paper we are only going to be getting worse next year. Even if we did deals and got draft picks, you need to draft really well, and draft picks take time to develop. It takes year to rebuild though the draft – you need to stack good drafts on top of each other (something Grier has not been able to do tactically or strategically re team building), and it just takes time.

We have gone all in, and all we got for it is a big stinking mess and an unsolvable problem. How Ross can look at this situation and keep Grier is beyond me, but if I were forced to bet, he still keeps Grier (and McDaniel). If he doesn’t, I cannot imagine a competent GM wanting to step into this mess. It is a no win situation.

Chart is below, and below that is the table with all the data so you can figure out which team is which.

View attachment 179332


2025​
Roster Age​
Cap Space
Oldest
Patriots
$132,508,830​
21
Cardinals
$113,435,282​
15
Raiders
$112,191,156​
26
Commanders
$99,844,458​
8
Bears
$82,037,877​
10
Vikings
$76,467,385​
5
Chargers
$76,142,855​
28
Titans
$65,002,520​
19
Bengals
$64,686,259​
3
Packers
$62,749,872​
32
Lions
$62,061,023​
22
Jaguars
$61,818,617​
20
Giants
$60,280,222​
24
Broncos
$57,898,450​
30
Rams
$55,691,158​
31
Steelers
$53,929,547​
9
Colts
$50,795,039​
23
49ers
$49,239,267​
7
Panthers
$33,604,119​
2
Jets
$32,844,610​
11
Eagles
$32,062,970​
27
Buccaneers
$24,588,829​
29
Cowboys
$23,125,460​
14
Chiefs
$21,880,672​
25
Ravens
$17,991,981​
17
Texans
$14,554,366​
12
Bills
$8,111,553​
1
Falcons
$7,471,301​
13
Dolphins
$3,696,220​
6
Seahawks
($7,027,972)​
18
Browns
($14,412,572)​
4
Saints
($62,801,756)​
16
I agree 100% with everything you said here. You said we couldn't keep Hunt, Wilkins and AVG. Add Brandon Jones and Deshon Elliot to that. We gotta stop kicking the cap can down the road for these old players.
 
It looks like the Packers have one more season to mask their overrated QB's deficiencies with talent before they are god awful. I don't care about this list because Grier has managed to perform miracles with our roster while averaging 4 late round draft picks over the past two seasons. I'm sure we will be better next year.
LeTs DeFeNd ChRiS GiEiR GuYs

Mr Rogers Clown GIF


1000014276.jpg
 
It looks like the Packers have one more season to mask their overrated QB's deficiencies with talent before they are god awful. I don't care about this list because Grier has managed to perform miracles with our roster while averaging 4 late round draft picks over the past two seasons. I'm sure we will be better next year.
What miracles are you referring to?
 
It looks like the Packers have one more season to mask their overrated QB's deficiencies with talent before they are god awful. I don't care about this list because Grier has managed to perform miracles with our roster while averaging 4 late round draft picks over the past two seasons. I'm sure we will be better next year.


Please watch this before I completely lose all respect for you.

Maybe if your hear it from another card carrying member of the Aqua Glasses Brigade, it will snap some sense into you.
 
…so basically if the Bills don’t win the Super Bowl it’s time to clean house?
 
Back
Top Bottom