Luck vs. Weeden in the Fiesta Bowl | Page 18 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Luck vs. Weeden in the Fiesta Bowl

But head-to-head Weeden outplayed Luck... :chuckle:


I don't know about that. I remember John Beck supposedly 'outplaying' Matt Ryan in 2006 when BYU played Boston College.

Hell, I watched John Parker Wilson outplay Matthew Stafford in 2008 when Bama went to Georgia and built a 31-3 halftime lead.

I have a ton of examples.... but the point is they don't mean a damn thing.
 
I don't know about that. I remember John Beck supposedly 'outplaying' Matt Ryan in 2006 when BYU played Boston College.

Hell, I watched John Parker Wilson outplay Matthew Stafford in 2008 when Bama went to Georgia and built a 31-3 halftime lead.

I have a ton of examples.... but the point is they don't mean a damn thing.

I agree! It's CK you'll have to convince. ;)
 
I don't know about that. I remember John Beck supposedly 'outplaying' Matt Ryan in 2006 when BYU played Boston College.

Hell, I watched John Parker Wilson outplay Matthew Stafford in 2008 when Bama went to Georgia and built a 31-3 halftime lead.

I have a ton of examples.... but the point is they don't mean a damn thing.

I think it does absolutely mean something when there's a consistent tendency, which is what I showed in the simple fact that Weeden played all five of the consensus top five quarterbacks in this Draft and beat all five of them, outplaying all five of them individually. That means something because when that happens in the pros, you usually win.

I agree with you on Luck having to pull his offense out from behind the 8-ball with his arm more than Weeden had to during the game. That's accurate. But the whole thing where Andrew Luck has the entire playbook open to him at the line of scrimmage is a double-edged sword. I've heard many people complaining about how much the Stanford "coaches" decided to run the ball instead of letting Andrew Luck win with his arm...and I just have to say, how do we know that was the coaches at all? How do we know that wasn't Luck making those decisions based on things he's seeing in the defense?

Simple fact of the matter is though Andrew Luck had two turnovers during the game, the interception and his botching of the fullback hand-off in the shadow of his own end zone. That latter ended up quite literally being the difference in the game.
 
the difference in the game was the darn fg kicker for stanford missing a pretty makeable maybe even relatively routine kick...i didn't think that kick was from very far at the end of regulation...i don't know...maybe 40 yards or so...bang that sucker through and walk off the field like you own the joint...

luck more than put stanford in position to win the game...the kicker just crapped out
 
I think it does absolutely mean something when there's a consistent tendency, which is what I showed in the simple fact that Weeden played all five of the consensus top five quarterbacks in this Draft and beat all five of them, outplaying all five of them individually. That means something because when that happens in the pros, you usually win.

I agree with you on Luck having to pull his offense out from behind the 8-ball with his arm more than Weeden had to during the game. That's accurate. But the whole thing where Andrew Luck has the entire playbook open to him at the line of scrimmage is a double-edged sword. I've heard many people complaining about how much the Stanford "coaches" decided to run the ball instead of letting Andrew Luck win with his arm...and I just have to say, how do we know that was the coaches at all? How do we know that wasn't Luck making those decisions based on things he's seeing in the defense?

Simple fact of the matter is though Andrew Luck had two turnovers during the game, the interception and his botching of the fullback hand-off in the shadow of his own end zone. That latter ended up quite literally being the difference in the game.

Please tell me how a QB can play against another QB. I'm serious. All joking aside. I honestly see no way how one team's QB can determine the play of another team's QB. Doing the "head-to-head" QB crap is bush league at best and something the media talkingheads do in order to get ratings.
 
the difference in the game was the darn fg kicker for stanford missing a pretty makeable maybe even relatively routine kick...i didn't think that kick was from very far at the end of regulation...i don't know...maybe 40 yards or so...bang that sucker through and walk off the field like you own the joint...

luck more than put stanford in position to win the game...the kicker just crapped out

Right. I mean, if AV had missed those 3 game winning FG's in those Super Bowls, Brady would have been "outplayed". :chuckle:
 
If I am the Bills I am giving Brandon Weeden a hard look..I think he could be an instant starter and upgrade over Ryan Fitzpatrick. He has the tools to play in a spread..However I am very weary of him in a pro style offense. I dont know if I can trust him making reads in something other than a spread..I also caught him a few times last night staring down rec's that were not named Justin Blackmon. Also Blackmon consistenly won at the LOS and Weeden had a ton of easy throws..But he put them right in there..So I give him credit for that..

Luck is def as advertised..He is the field general that everyone knows he can be..He can make all the throws and his ego is in check for sure which is something that is highly under rated in a qb..I would have like to see him take more shots down the field but that could be his offense handcuffing him..I also saw him throw in the window between the saftey and cb on a few throws which is very nice for a college qb. Rolling out left or right didnt matter..He was very accurate last night..

My only concern about Luck is that he is too conservative at times..the last drive reminded me alot of Chad Pennington vs the Colts a few years back when we settle for a fg when we could have gone for their throat....I guess I cant really blame him tho..He may just trusted his team mates just a bit too much.
 
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I think it does absolutely mean something when there's a consistent tendency, which is what I showed in the simple fact that Weeden played all five of the consensus top five quarterbacks in this Draft and beat all five of them, outplaying all five of them individually. That means something because when that happens in the pros, you usually win.

I agree with you on Luck having to pull his offense out from behind the 8-ball with his arm more than Weeden had to during the game. That's accurate. But the whole thing where Andrew Luck has the entire playbook open to him at the line of scrimmage is a double-edged sword. I've heard many people complaining about how much the Stanford "coaches" decided to run the ball instead of letting Andrew Luck win with his arm...and I just have to say, how do we know that was the coaches at all? How do we know that wasn't Luck making those decisions based on things he's seeing in the defense?

Simple fact of the matter is though Andrew Luck had two turnovers during the game, the interception and his botching of the fullback hand-off in the shadow of his own end zone. That latter ended up quite literally being the difference in the game.


The difference in the game was the field goal kicker for Stanford. Although the botched handoffby Luck didn't help... but it's not what lost Stanford the game.

Furthermore, Weeden hasn't outplayed all 5 of those QB's. The only one he clearly outplayed was Landry Jones, who put up an absolute stinker. Jordan Jefferson would've outplayed Landry Jones in that game. I think Weeden outplayed RG3, but it wasn't in some lopsided landslide.

Weeden didn't 'outplay' Nick Foles. That game was a dead heat between those two QB's.... Oklahoma St. just has a better team. Weeden definitely didn't 'outplay' Luck last night.



The point is, 'outplaying' the other quarterback in a college game has nothing to do with outplaying him in the NFL. Otherwise, John Beck would've been able to outplay Matt Ryan in the NFL. JPW would've been able to outplay Matthew Stafford in the NFL.

Hell he's almost 30 years old CK, he should be outplaying these young kids anyway.
 
The difference in the game was the field goal kicker for Stanford. Although the botched handoffby Luck didn't help... but it's not what lost Stanford the game.

Furthermore, Weeden hasn't outplayed all 5 of those QB's. The only one he clearly outplayed was Landry Jones, who put up an absolute stinker. Jordan Jefferson would've outplayed Landry Jones in that game. I think Weeden outplayed RG3, but it wasn't in some lopsided landslide.

Weeden didn't 'outplay' Nick Foles. That game was a dead heat between those two QB's.... Oklahoma St. just has a better team. Weeden definitely didn't 'outplay' Luck last night.



The point is, 'outplaying' the other quarterback in a college game has nothing to do with outplaying him in the NFL. Otherwise, John Beck would've been able to outplay Matt Ryan in the NFL. JPW would've been able to outplay Matthew Stafford in the NFL.

Hell he's almost 30 years old CK, he should be outplaying these young kids anyway.

slimms batting 1.000 today
 
Nick Foles - 37/51 -- 72.5% -- 398 yards -- 1 TD/0 INT's -- 144.57 QB rating

Brandon Weeden - 42/53 -- 79.2% -- 397 yards -- 2 TD's/1 INT -- 150.85 QB rating

(This is pretty even. The teams were not. I've watched it several times)



Ryan Tannehill - 28/47 -- 59.6% -- 309 yards -- 2 TD's/3 INT's -- 116.06 QB rating

Brandon Weeden - 47/60 -- 78.3% -- 438 yards -- 2 TD's/0 INT's -- 150.65 QB rating

(Weeden brought his team from behind to win this game. Texas A&M has the worst pass defense in the entire country. 2 of those interceptions were not on Tannehill, they're on the receivers.)



Robert Griffin - 33/50 -- 66% -- 425 yards -- 1 TD/2 INT's -- 136.00 QB rating

Brandon Weeden - 24/36 -- 66.7% -- 274 yards -- 3 TD's/0 INT's -- 158.10 QB rating

(Weeden outplayed RG3 in this game as I mentioned.)



Landry Jones - 27/50 -- 54% -- 250 yards -- 0 TD's/2 INT's -- 88.00 QB rating

Brandon Weeden - 24/36 -- 66.7% -- 217 yards -- 0 TD's/0 INT's -- 117.31 QB rating

(Again, Jordan Jefferson could've outplayed Landry in this one)



Andrew Luck - 27/31 -- 87.1% -- 347 yards -- 2 TD's/1 INT -- 195.97 QB rating

Brandon Weeden - 29/42 -- 69% -- 399 yards -- 3 TD's/1 INT -- 167.66 QB rating

(Both QB's played well. The best WR in the country did most of the work for Weeden. Luck did more to keep his team in the game. He did what an NFL quarterback is supposed to do.... lead his team down the field in the clutch to set up a chip shot game winning field goal. They probably should've let Luck kick it.)
 
The difference in the game was the field goal kicker for Stanford. Although the botched handoffby Luck didn't help... but it's not what lost Stanford the game.

Furthermore, Weeden hasn't outplayed all 5 of those QB's. The only one he clearly outplayed was Landry Jones, who put up an absolute stinker. Jordan Jefferson would've outplayed Landry Jones in that game. I think Weeden outplayed RG3, but it wasn't in some lopsided landslide.

Weeden didn't 'outplay' Nick Foles. That game was a dead heat between those two QB's.... Oklahoma St. just has a better team. Weeden definitely didn't 'outplay' Luck last night.



The point is, 'outplaying' the other quarterback in a college game has nothing to do with outplaying him in the NFL. Otherwise, John Beck would've been able to outplay Matt Ryan in the NFL. JPW would've been able to outplay Matthew Stafford in the NFL.

Hell he's almost 30 years old CK, he should be outplaying these young kids anyway.


Brandon Weeden did outplay RGIII in that game, it wasn't even close, statistics didn't tell the real story. This running argument about Weeden's age and his competetvie advantage as per the younger college players- this isn't high school, these are grown men. Look at the underclassmen coming out- the AJ Green's, Julio Jones' of the draft world, they're ready to go. Look at a guy from down here who played one year at Kentucky and is now making some noise for the Detroit Pistons, Brandon Knight. Different sport, but he's mature enough at 19 to contribute. Danny Kanell could barely bench 135 at FSU his freshman year- send him to the NFL then and he'd get killed. But he got a whole lot stronger in the next 3 years, was physically mature by the time he went to the Giants.

These NFL prospects are grown men, most of them 21-23 years old. I think that there is some small merit to this idea of a physical competetive advantage as prer Weeden, but it is way, way overblown. Look at the size of these NFL prospects coming out- these are full grown men, or very close to full grown men- look at the linemen, these dudes are huge. Weeden's major advantage in college football is not age and maturity, it's that he is so damned good that he can soundly beat and outplay most of his competitors.

In terms of Weeden/Luck or any other comparison, I really don't care all that much who won the game- Stanford's kicker screwed the pooch, I really couldn't give a sh**. But it does say something that Weeden played well against these other teams with top QBs and led OSU to victory- there is a subtle difference there. And at the end of the day it's about how the QB played- Blackmon had a monster game and monster season, but it's hardly fair for some to claim that Blackmon has carried Weeden. Weeden should be judged on his own merits, that isn't really all that difficult to do. And as big a backer of Weeden as I have been, if I had to pick out the superior player in the game, aside from Blackmon, I'd probably go with Luck this time around. But I still love Weeden, and I will say that I found your "not half bad" comment regarding him to be conspicuously dismissive. You do have it right on DeCastro, though- people can b**** and moan all they want to about him being an OL, he's a top notch talent and would be a tremendous addition to the Dolphins. DeCastro/Weeden/Fleener would be just fine with me.
 
did you guys happen to hear the sideline reporter during the okla bowl game say that there was someone on the sideline she spoke to whos been on the sideline for every game this year a position coach or a doctor or something who said that in the bowl game was the first time all season he'd seen jones on the sideline call the offense together and try to rally them to play better...first time he's shown leadership on the sideline...

another red flag imo
 
hey slimm...did you watch the iowa st okla st game by any chance??? what was your read on how weeden played???
 
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