Marino Was Better than Montana but Walsh Was Better than Shula | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Marino Was Better than Montana but Walsh Was Better than Shula

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1--pmXE7H0&feature=relmfu

All 7 clips are amazing

Marino had more talent and more ability than Montana that is obvious to anyone... but the reason Montana is considered the greatest player to play the game is because he had Bill Walsh...

Look at the impact Walsh had on producing some of the greatest thinkers in the NFL. I don't think one Shula staffer aside from his son ever coached a team...

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Marino was a better pure passer but when it comes to play action fakes and rollouts Montana is the obvious choice. Dan Marino was amazing, he carried this team for years but IMO Montana was a better all around QB, he did everything well (I know I'm going to get killed for this).

As for Shula, his biggest flaw was his loyalty to his coordinators. There is absolutely no reason Tom Olividotti should have been a defensive coordinator in the NFL...or even in pee-wee football for that matter.
 
Marino was a better pure passer but when it comes to play action fakes and rollouts Montana is the obvious choice. Dan Marino was amazing, he carried this team for years but IMO Montana was a better all around QB, he did everything well (I know I'm going to get killed for this).

As for Shula, his biggest flaw was his loyalty to his coordinators. There is absolutely no reason Tom Olividotti should have been a defensive coordinator in the NFL...or even in pee-wee football for that matter.
Absolutely correct olividdati was not very good. How many times third and four, fourth and four and everyone but him knew it would be a draw to Thomas.
 
Absolutely correct olividdati was not very good. How many times third and four, fourth and four and everyone but him knew it would be a draw to Thomas.
Don't even get me started on that clown. How many times did we lose games 42-45, 38-42 or 35-38? He made Ken O'Brien look like a freakin pro bowler twice a year.
 
You're crazy the Don Shula is the greatest coach of all time, but I will agree his coordinators were iffy. I do think he could've built a better team around Marino. Still doesnt deteriorate all the achievements Don Shula accomplished because Bill Walsh could never accomplish that. Smh at this
 
Shula was an absolutely phenomenal coach. Lombardi is maybe the only one ahead of him. Shula could take a Doug Pederson as a qb and win on the road against a good team. He could have his franchise qb get hurt for extended periods and still win big (Griese in '72, Marino in '93). He could go into Dallas with a fossil like Steve DeBerg and beat the Super Bowl champs on a marquee Thanksgiving Day.

With all due respect to Bill Walsh, he doesn't have that kind of track record. Walsh was an excellent coach, don't get me wrong. But he didn't sustain it across different styles of play, totally changed rosters, etc. Shula was one of a kind.

Now where I do agree is that Shula had an absolutely horrid personnel department once George Young and Bobby Beathard left Miami. Miami's drafting after that fell off a cliff. They had a nice run in the late 70s when they drafted Baumhower, Duhe, Bokamper, McNeal et al. Marino was obviously as good of a pick as there ever was. But Shula and Marino were let down by the personnel mistakes that were staggering. It wasn't Shula's coaching or Marino's quarterbacking that was a shortcoming. It was player acquisition. You can't have this series of high draft picks: Jackie Shipp, Eric Kumerow, John Bosa, Lorenzo Hampton, Mike Charles, Eddie Blake, Scott Schwedes, Billy Milner, Andrew Greene (all 1st and 2nd round picks) in a short amount of time and not have deleterious effects. Not to mention trading multiple high picks for Hugh Green. Desperate, incompetent drafting. Other teams find nuggets or obvious stars, and you just knew Miami would mess it up. As a Miami fan of that vintage, you always hoped for success in player acquisition, but frankly, deep down, you knew Miami couldn't do it right. The sad thing is they had the two hardest things to find. QB and head coach. And they couldn't make solid picks around them. It's pathetic and infuriating if you think about it.
 
Don Shula was great in the 70's and early 80's because he was in an era where you could build a team and keep it together. As stated previously, he was loyal to his staff and that got him in trouble. I am sorry, but the way he deferred to Marino and not at least making him understand that a running game is an asset and you can not do it all yourself, was another of his short comings. Then when Jimmy came in he did a complete 180 taking all control away from Dan and forcing him to run, that was also the wrong approach. But the worst thing that happened to Shula was the loss of Bill Arnsparger. I will take this to my grave, Bill Arnsparger was the greatest defensive DC of his era.

Many of the younger people do not remember or even know of a time when you had a player for as long as the team wanted him. There was no player movement. It was the reason that Csonka and the rest of the players bolted for the WFL. When a player was drafted, barring some kind of trade, that was your team and you better make this work or your not going to make it in the league. A coach did not have to worry about filling holes that were addressed previously by the team as long as you did not screw up your draft, but I assure there were alot of teams that did. You had 3 or 4 teams that were elite and then you had the rest of the league. Thank God we were one of those teams. In my estimation in the 70's, the Raiders, Dolphins, Cowboys and Steelers were the elite and then there were the good teams and you had the bad teams and it never really changed. But the winds of change picked up in the 80's and more teams started challenge for the upper echelon, i.e. 49ers. The whole complexion of the league changed when JJ went to Dallas and when FA came about in around 93. Shula was, sadly, like a fish out of water.

There was a time that a coach once said,"Shula will take his and beat yours, then he will take yours and beat his". Not in this new era of football. I point to the time when Marino's career was waning and Shula was trying to get him back to the SB. We had glaring needs on defense, but Shula again deferred to Marino. He brought a ton of veteran offensive stars, most of which were removed from the glory of their youth. Once again he did not bring any thing to establish a modicum of a running attack, just weapons to help Marino. I reiterate he did nothing about the faltering D. As you can expect, this blow up in his face. There was just no cohesion on the team. Ultimately that was what lead to Shula being let go and JJ being hired.

The second thing that will tarnish the memory of Shula was the presence of one of the most inept coaches in the league, Tom "it's not my fault it's the players" Olivadotti. This guy was clueless and always gave the excuse that he just did not have the players to run his defensive system. The guy was a MORON. Enough said before my head explodes.

Lastly, the most significant events of Shula tenure as a the HC happened in the early 80's. First, Larry Gordon died of an heart attack while jogging outside his home. Do not ask me why, but Gordon seemed to be the glue that held the D together. When he died the D never seemed to be the same. But that brings me to the second significant event of 1983, Bill Arnsparger's departure to LSU. It is probably why Gordon's death seemed so significant. Bill was a defensive genius. I am pretty sure that Shula gave Arnsparger alot of latitude when it came to control over the defense. It really showed because when he moved on in 83 and, I think, Chuck Studstill that came in, the D was never really the same. Then, Olivaidiot was hired and the rest is history.

Shula was great coach. But as I say to the people with which I watch the Dolphin's games, I will never forgive him for not making more of an effort to shore up the running game and keeping the idiot on the staff for as long as he did.




 
Montana was unquestionably a better QB than Marino. There should be no doubt in anyone's mind about that. Where was Walsh when he played at Notre Dame?

Shula was also IMO unquestionably a better coach than Walsh. Shula is interwoven in the very fabric of the NFL. :d-day:

Look at Don's history going back to when he was with the Colts. What he did with the Dolphin's STILL has not been repeated.

I think way too many people think of Marino when they think of Dolphin greatness. Larry Csonka, Griese & Don Shula are what Dolphin greatness is all about.
 
Besides Gordon, the Fins also lost David Overstreet prior the 84 season (car accident) and Andra Franklin early in the 84 season to a knee. Not to mentioned AJ Duhe blew out his knee in Marino's first playoff game (defense gave up a late drive) and Baumhower's back was toast by late '84. Throw in Hugh Green tearing up his knee shortly after that (bad) trade. IMO, these significant losses (entire RB corp and all our playmakers on defense) were huge as Shula reached in subsequent drafts during this timeframe because he had to get LB's and RB's. Double whammy.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1--pmXE7H0&feature=relmfu

All 7 clips are amazing

Marino had more talent and more ability than Montana that is obvious to anyone... but the reason Montana is considered the greatest player to play the game is because he had Bill Walsh...

Look at the impact Walsh had on producing some of the greatest thinkers in the NFL. I don't think one Shula staffer aside from his son ever coached a team...

clear.gif

Your way off base.....Chuck Noll was a Shula protege and won 4 Superbowls.........Shula's fault was not coaching.....it was personel selection. As Bum Phillips said "He can take his'n and beat your'n.....or he can take your'n and beat his'n.

I find it funny someone is attacking one of the greatest coaches ever that was the Dolphins coach for 25 years...the only coach to EVER coach a complete perfect season...versus attacking the many wannstedt's and wannabees since he left?
 
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Sorry Marino was not better than Montana. Just because we are Dolphin fans, we shouldn't go around lying to ourselves.
 
Montana was better. However Montana has Jerry Rice the best WR in the history of the NFL. Also had a much better Defense then Marino. Also had a 1000 yard RB which Phins did not have. Saying all that; Montana was better. I think the reason was DECISION MAKING.
 
I must have forgotten, someone remind me when of the year when Walsh coached a perfect season?

???
 
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