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Marino's feelings tword the fins

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ch19079

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please dont take this as a insult or anything like that. i really am curious.
but i have been wondering this for a while. (you have to ignore the bills flag)

we can all agree that marino was a great QB. and most people say that he never won a super bowl becuase he didnt have a team around him. no WRs, no RBs, no O-Line... ok.

but he was in the league for a LONG time. and through all those years he never really had a good supporting cast.

so do you think, looking back on his carrer with the fins, that he feels the fins organization, GM, owner...ect, are responsible for not giving him a team, and inturn keeping him from getting a SB ring? and keeping him from being the widly accepted "greatest ever"? (i know many think he is the greatest, but many sports writers disagree).
:couch:

i dont want to start a "he was the greatest because..." threads.

but, what do you think??
 
You pose an interesting question. I think that it is fair to crticize Shula in this regards. Marino did everything he was possibly capable of. There was nothing more Dan could have done to help his team.


After his first years in the league, I think it was fair to say that the Dolphins really didn't do a great job of building a team around him. Some people say Shula is untouchable in terms of criticism, but I think it is a fair complaint.

I don't think he is bitter though.
 
Shula was a great coach but he wasnt a good talent evaluator.He had to rely on other people and that was his biggest flaw.He was loyal to his underlings to a fault and IMO he did not make the appropiate changes when those people demonstrated they were not up to the job.Ditto with some of his assistant coaches.
 
Maybe they could have put more of an emphasis on getting Dan the people he needs to get him a ring, but I know Dan Loves the Dolphins and he doesn't have any ill will.
 
I don't know, I don't blame Shula as much. I think part of it has to go on Dan himself. Dan hated to hand the ball off. So much so that he admits to changing the plays to passes on every down in one game. Dan had some good o-line players around him as well, the just excelled at pass blocking. We had some ok running backs but again, the gameplan was solely on Dan's arm and when it shifted to something else, Dan just audibled back to himself.

The offense in my opinion was fine. The problem I think in a lot of those years was that they had a subpar defense. When Jimmy Johnson took over, he fixed that, but did it at the expense of the offense and Dan Marino's arm. He called for more play action's and more running, which really didn't help us much.

My bottom line is this. I think Dan Marino loves the fins. He probably has some regrets but I think he obviously feels a bond with the organization and fans. He had an opportunity to go elsewhere and start ( Minnesota, Pittsburgh ) but decided to retire instead. He liked that fact that he played for one team. I think that shows you where he is at with the team.
 
It's an interesting point, but even a casual observer from yesterday should see the strong relationship between Shula and Marino, and Marino and the team.

I think Dan regrets not winning, but at the same time is deeply appreciative for what he did have with (most of) the coaches and his teammates.
 
ch19079 said:
please dont take this as a insult or anything like that. i really am curious.
but i have been wondering this for a while. (you have to ignore the bills flag)

we can all agree that marino was a great QB. and most people say that he never won a super bowl becuase he didnt have a team around him. no WRs, no RBs, no O-Line... ok.

but he was in the league for a LONG time. and through all those years he never really had a good supporting cast.

so do you think, looking back on his carrer with the fins, that he feels the fins organization, GM, owner...ect, are responsible for not giving him a team, and inturn keeping him from getting a SB ring? and keeping him from being the widly accepted "greatest ever"? (i know many think he is the greatest, but many sports writers disagree).
:couch:

i dont want to start a "he was the greatest because..." threads.

but, what do you think??
Click to expand...


When you get a chance just go back and watch his Hall Of Fame Speech!. I think you will find your answer..
 
the way i look at it...it just wasn't meant to be. maybe he didn't have the best defense around him...maybe he didn't have the best wr's around him (I tend to disagree with this arguement...I think his wr's were above average thoughout his career except for maybe his last 2-3 years...they couldn't get any separation from what I remeber)...he didn't have any RB's that were above average...we'll okay on this statement but...part of that was Marino's doing...he'd rather throw that run...so the running game was non-existant when he was there...until J.J. became coach so I blame J.J for not drafting a solid RB or trading for one...he want to instill a dominate running game...he didn't and he still preached the run when are best weapon was still Marino.

I don't think you can blame any one person...it just didn't happen...I honestly think that because Marino got to play in one so early in his career...that he and the Fins organization felt that they would have plenty of chances to win one...they probably felt ****y about it...and felt hey we got Dan...we'll get back and he never did.

In hindsight...they should have taken that fist opportuninity more seriously...Dan should have taken advantage of that chance...he didn't.

Then the Bills got really good...and he never got back in it.

I think it would have been awesome if he got in the Super Bowl in the 84 season 85 Superbowl against the Bears...but the damn Pats upset the Fins at home...

17 years later...that's it...I guess it just was not meant to be.

Go Fins!!!
 
well in all fairness to dan , I think dan idn't so much wanted mot to run the ball but our rbs were not any good at all. now if dan could of had a guy like barry sanders or thurman thomas or even ricky he probally would of embraced the runing game. the dolphins have two problems here. first we have been a out of balened team ; we were either good on deffense and bad offense or visa sersa. second the only problem with having 8-8 seasons is that we were not good enough to make it to the superbowl and we were not bad enough to get better draft picks. for exmple . drafting john avery, jj johnson, cecil collins, and other numbskulls so from 1995 to 2001 our draft picks were sub par with a few exceptions . So basical if we could traded for barry sanders and had drafted randy moss i think dan could have had a better chance to get a ring. this is only my observation.
 
ch19079 said:
please dont take this as a insult or anything like that. i really am curious.
but i have been wondering this for a while. (you have to ignore the bills flag)

we can all agree that marino was a great QB. and most people say that he never won a super bowl becuase he didnt have a team around him. no WRs, no RBs, no O-Line... ok.

but he was in the league for a LONG time. and through all those years he never really had a good supporting cast.

so do you think, looking back on his carrer with the fins, that he feels the fins organization, GM, owner...ect, are responsible for not giving him a team, and inturn keeping him from getting a SB ring? and keeping him from being the widly accepted "greatest ever"? (i know many think he is the greatest, but many sports writers disagree).
:couch:

i dont want to start a "he was the greatest because..." threads.

but, what do you think??
Click to expand...

He had some pretty good WR's early on (Clayton, Duper, Moore). After that, only Irvng Fryar was any good. Mark Ingram and Tony Martin were serviceable.
He never had an elite back, however. Tom Olivadotti's defenses didn't help either. I think back at some of the pedestrian players they had on those defenses and I shake my head. In the SB against San Fran, things may have been different had the Dolphins not been hit with successive offseason tragedies. They lost Rusty Chambers (ILB) and promising young RB David Overstreet to motor vehicle accidents, then lost Larry Gordon (OLB) to a freakish cardiac arrest while jogging.
Recall, that Bill Walsh's plan of attack in the SB was to expose Miami's LB's (Jackie Shipp and Jay Brophy). They were the weak link on that defense and Roger Craig/ Wendell Tyler abused them coming out of the backfield. Shula drafted Shipp and Brophy out of neccessity after the deaths of Gordon and Chambers. Chambers was a very good ILB and Gordon was one of the best pass rushing OLB's in the league (next to LT and Hugh Green).
After that, the Dolphins never seemed to be able to build a defense. Brian Sochia, TJ Turner, Paul Lankford, Bill Judson, Eric Kumerow, John Bosa etc. Offerdahl was a lone bright spot, but he clearly wasn't enough.
 
CRAZYDOLFAN305 said:
When you get a chance just go back and watch his Hall Of Fame Speech!. I think you will find your answer..
Click to expand...
if he did have some anger at the fins organization or coaches, or gm, or whatever, do you really think that he would bring that up at his hall of fame speach??? come on.

IMO, he has to have some.
 
ch19079 said:
if he did have some anger at the fins organization or coaches, or gm, or whatever, do you really think that he would bring that up at his hall of fame speach??? come on.

IMO, he has to have some.
Click to expand...

How do you think Barry Sanders feels? His crappy teams ran him right out of the league. I feel for Marino, but that's life. What about Eric Dickerson, for a few yrs he dominated the league like I've never seen a RB do since Earl Campbell.
You can find players in every sport. How about Ray Bourque?
I don't think a lack of championships should be a refection on a player, especially in football. Way to many variables involved that are out of a single players control.
 
perhaps if they didn't give him so much money they would've had more to spend on better players. i doubt he's mad at the dolphins at all
 
Dan has openly expressed that he wishes he had a RB that he knew he could rely on. More so that he wished he had a good running back to help than that he could rely on, but you knew what he meant. When Ricky came in to Miami, Marino said on a pre-game show when asked if he wished he had a guy like Ricky to hand the ball off to "Ricky, Ricky Ricky, where were you the last 17 years" something to that sort. He was never confident in the rbs' he had in the backfield. Look at the games, 1 against the Bills in the playoffs I believe when the Rb fumbled the ball on a game winning TD drive close to the goal line. That can partly be put on the OL too. Not the fumble but the run blocking.

Marino only called pass plays when he felt the running plays would not work. If you remember when Jimmy took the audible away from Marino, there was one game when Marino came to the line and stood like he wanted to call an audible, shook his head, went ahead w/ the play and was crushed on the play. The next play he was under center, stood again, remembered he could not audible, looked to the sideline and shrugged his shoulders took the center and ran the play to be crushed again. Marino was a handicapped weapon his last few years w/ JJ.

I do feel that Don, and more so JJ hindered Marino's chances at getting to the big game. 2 coaches brought Elway to the super bowl. 2 brought Aikman. Anyway, there was a long period of doing nothing to help Dan. They brought in big name Wrs' that did not pan out, but never really went after a big name rb. I think Don felt Danny could do it himself. He was content w/ what he had. Defense was the real weak link. To be ranked so low for so long is hard to believe. It seems now like Shula was the only coach that thought offens wins' championships. Do not get me wrong, I like Shula, I just think he was to loyal to some coaches in house. If he brought in some different guys to help the D maybe we would be talking about a guy that also shattered all the post-season and super bowl records'.
 
CrunchTime said:
Shula was a great coach but he wasnt a good talent evaluator.He had to rely on other people and that was his biggest flaw.He was loyal to his underlings to a fault and IMO he did not make the appropiate changes when those people demonstrated they were not up to the job.Ditto with some of his assistant coaches.
Click to expand...


This is a fair criticism We held on to Olivadatti far too long. We had decent defensive talent in the early 90's and his vanilla bend and then break defense didn't get it done. Imagine if we had Arnsparger one last time. Cox, Coleman, Vincent, Cross, Oliver, Williams, Bowens, and Singleton should have been enough to field a decent D.

The one criticism I have of Dan was he never fully mastered the play action pass. He would have been even greater if he did.
 
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