Massive haul in the draft

[ChitownPhins28]

He’s been terrible. Absolutely terrible. But he is very young and very athletic. Didn’t like the reach pick and really didn’t like the “trade Howard now that we got Iggy Pop talk”. Hopefully he develops into a terrific player - otherwise that was a total waste of a pick. It’s very early and he was supposed to be a project. Fine. The issue w project picks is by the time they develop, they’re hitting FA.

I think Iggy will be quite good as a CB3/slot corner by the end of the year and will be groomed as X's replacement at the boundary next year. There's certain physical traits you look for in CB, like good hips, that, if you have, you can be trained to be good in the NFL and Iggy clearly has, which is why he was selected.

 

[TheRevoltingBlob]

It’s looking pretty good right now. I will say that. But there’s a lot of time left this year and we’ve had some horrid drafts in the recent past.

the 2019 draft isn’t much to get excited about frankly. Van ginkel looks to be rising.

We didn't have a 2nd or a 4th rounder. Sadly we've seen worse drafts than Wilkins, Van Ginkel, Gaskin, and Cox. Especially considering we only had 2 picks before the 5th. Dieter was really the only bust.

If you include the Rosen trade though, the draft looks a lot worse.

 

[Feverdream]

We didn't have a 2nd or a 4th rounder. Sadly we've seen worse drafts than Wilkins, Van Ginkel, Gaskin, and Cox. Especially considering we only had 2 picks before the 5th. Dieter was really the only bust.

If you include the Rosen trade though, the draft looks a lot worse.

Well... only if you don't reflect that we traded down before we took Rosen. You have to figure in that value we gained there... plus the UDFAs that we signed immediately after the draft. All of that is part of the picture.

 

[foozool13]

I think Iggy will be quite good as a CB3/slot corner by the end of the year and will be groomed as X's replacement at the boundary next year. There's certain physical traits you look for in CB, like good hips, that, if you have, you can be trained to be good in the NFL and Iggy clearly has, which is why he was selected.

Iggy will not be playing slot at all which the coaching staff has shown. Also, why are we replacing Howard?

 

[isaacjunk]

Add to that...solid evidence that we finally have competent OL coaching, as well as a FO that can identify good OL talent. Both have been abysmal for a long time.

You know the saying about a teaching a man how to fish? It may be that our organization has been taught how to fish OL (at the FO and coaching levels) for the first time in god knows

 

[Atila]

I forgot where it was mentioned, but the coaching staff has gone on the record to state the reason Iggy isn't getting more play before Needham is because they want him working exclusively as a boundary corner. So he is stuck behind Howard and Jones trying to get boundary snaps, not that he is "less than" or "behind" Needham who is playing as a slot corner.

Just something to think about when wondering why he is playing behind an UDFA like someone mentioned. Give the kid some time, he's super young and playing behind two of the better corners in the NFL.

 

[dolfan91]

I forgot where it was mentioned, but the coaching staff has gone on the record to state the reason Iggy isn't getting more play before Needham is because they want him working exclusively as a boundary corner. So he is stuck behind Howard and Jones trying to get boundary snaps, not that he is "less than" or "behind" Needham who is playing as a slot corner.

Just something to think about when wondering why he is playing behind an UDFA like someone mentioned. Give the kid some time, he's super young and playing behind two of the better corners in the NFL.

Needham is a boundary CB as well. He's been learning the Slot CB position on the fly in 2020. He's been up and down.

 

[Atila]

Needham is a boundary CB as well. He's been learning the Slot CB position on the fly in 2020. He's been up and down.

That's true, but it seems like they're willing to give those slot snaps to Needham where they want Iggy to exclusively work as a boundary guy. I think they also like that Needham has a lot more experience and since we're actually competitive this year, they want to do what's best for cohesion.

 

[OrangeBowl]

Are people new to football with these Iggy takes? Corner isn't a plug-and-play position. Look at the Lions. Okudah is 2nd string and he's generally regarded as the best CB prospect in years. It took Madison and Surtain years to be good and Iggy is only 20. It's HARD.

He'll be fine. If you expected some great corner out of the gate, that's your problem, not his.

Uh, you didnt research maddison and surtain. They didnt "take years to be good". Maddison led the leauge in int's his second year and the following year he started his run of 4 pro bowl appearances. Surtain took 2 seasons to really break out big but he was solid day 1 and was obviously going to be great. He went to 3 superbowls starting his 3rd season.

Didnt exactly take "years" for them to get good.

 

[Joe Dolfan]

Uh, you didnt research maddison and surtain. They didnt "take years to be good". Maddison led the leauge in int's his second year and the following year he started his run of 4 pro bowl appearances. Surtain took 2 seasons to really break out big but he was solid day 1 and was obviously going to be great. He went to 3 superbowls starting his 3rd season.

Didnt exactly take "years" for them to get good.

I think you meant pro bowls, and they were in his 5th, 6th and 7th seasons.

 

[Atila]

Uh, you didnt research maddison and surtain. They didnt "take years to be good". Maddison led the leauge in int's his second year and the following year he started his run of 4 pro bowl appearances. Surtain took 2 seasons to really break out big but he was solid day 1 and was obviously going to be great. He went to 3 superbowls starting his 3rd season.

Didnt exactly take "years" for them to get good.

Iggy was considered "raw" coming out, and is 20 years old. Give him at least one season before you start ripping the kid apart. And he's playing behind 2 pro bowl CBs, it's not going to be easy to get a lot of snaps ahead of them.

 

[TheRevoltingBlob]

Well... only if you don't reflect that we traded down before we took Rosen. You have to figure in that value we gained there... plus the UDFAs that we signed immediately after the draft. All of that is part of the picture.

I was only looking at the picks we actually made. But yeah, if you want to look deeper, that trade back netted us Raekwan Davis.

It doesn't change that we still received a later 2019 2nd rounder and wasted it on Rosen (and a 6th on Prince). But if you are saying that independently the Saints trade was a good move, I agree. Even with Rosen and Prince failing, in the end the trade was pick #48 (2019) for #56 (2020).

And I didn't mention guys like Preston, only bc I was looking at the draft. I didn't forget him, Needham, ect.

My point was when looking at our actual draft selections, we didn't do as bad as some seem to think. Especially considering the capital we used.

 

[dolphinheel]

Etienne please

AMEN. HAVE TO HAVE

 

[Feverdream]

I think there are two separate conversations to be had here. Did Grier do a good job with the tear down and obtaining draft picks for players we were jettisoning? And were the players we selected successful? You might add... was he successful when he was attempting to work with previous coaches... but I'll leave that one alone for a bit.
The answer to the first question really can't be anything but yes. He blew up the roster in a way that few teams have ever done, and in so doing, he netted so many picks that we controlled the board in 2020 and again in 2021, and gave the Dolphins tons of cap space. Space, we used to bring in Jones, Lawson, Ogbah, Flowers etc.
The second question is trickier... because people want to blame him for moves made when he wasn't fully in charge... I'm going to reject that, and just look at '19 and '20. Thus far, the '19 yielded only one real clunker. Prince... a 6th round project that we quickly soured upon. Dieter might be a miss, but it is still to early to say for sure. The rest of that draft is looking pretty good. Wilkins is rated as one of top 5 run stopping DTs, Van Ginkle is REALLY stepping up after an injury plagued rookie season (and as a 5th round pick too), Gaskin has become our starting running back from the 6th round, and Cox has been a nice blocking back with that forgettable 7th round pick. Not bad... no great stars yet, but Wilkins and Van Ginkle sure look like they are going to be pretty damned good.
In '20, Grier beefed up the scouting department... something a competent GM does ... and it looks like we've struck gold. I won't recount these players... we all know them.

So what I'm left with is that many posters want to blame Grier because he was part of the equation while trying to work with a coach who we all now see is incompetent. Trying to work with Gase and give Gase the type of players that he wanted didn't work. That said, some decent players were drafted in 17 and 18. Jason Sanders, Smythe and Gesicki... Baker, Minkah (spits), Godchaux, McMillan, Ford... Were these drafts great? No... but they weren't as bad as some claim. Yes, Charles Harris didn't work out, and no, Minkah couldn't learn to act like a grown man, but these players have proven to be NFL caliber players.

If you look around the league and check out what other teams have done, you'll see about the same ratio of hits to misses that Grier managed in his first couple of years on the job... and that was as a new guy dealing with an idiot coach. I just don't understand the Grier hatred and just chalk it up to rank impatience.

 

[dolfan91]

I think there are two separate conversations to be had here. Did Grier do a good job with the tear down and obtaining draft picks for players we were jettisoning? And were the players we selected successful? You might add... was he successful when he was attempting to work with previous coaches... but I'll leave that one alone for a bit.
The answer to the first question really can't be anything but yes. He blew up the roster in a way that few teams have ever done, and in so doing, he netted so many picks that we controlled the board in 2020 and again in 2021, and gave the Dolphins tons of cap space. Space, we used to bring in Jones, Lawson, Ogbah, Flowers etc.
The second question is trickier... because people want to blame him for moves made when he wasn't fully in charge... I'm going to reject that, and just look at '19 and '20. Thus far, the '19 yielded only one real clunker. Prince... a 6th round project that we quickly soured upon. Dieter might be a miss, but it is still to early to say for sure. The rest of that draft is looking pretty good. Wilkins is rated as one of top 5 run stopping DTs, Van Ginkle is REALLY stepping up after an injury plagued rookie season (and as a 5th round pick too), Gaskin has become our starting running back from the 6th round, and Cox has been a nice blocking back with that forgettable 7th round pick. Not bad... no great stars yet, but Wilkins and Van Ginkle sure look like they are going to be pretty damned good.
In '20, Grier beefed up the scouting department... something a competent GM does ... and it looks like we've struck gold. I won't recount these players... we all know them.

So what I'm left with is that many posters want to blame Grier because he was part of the equation while trying to work with a coach who we all now see is incompetent. Trying to work with Gase and give Gase the type of players that he wanted didn't work. That said, some decent players were drafted in 17 and 18. Jason Sanders, Smythe and Gesicki... Baker, Minkah (spits), Godchaux, McMillan, Ford... Were these drafts great? No... but they weren't as bad as some claim. Yes, Charles Harris didn't work out, and no, Minkah couldn't learn to act like a grown man, but these players have proven to be NFL caliber players.

If you look around the league and check out what other teams have done, you'll see about the same ratio of hits to misses that Grier managed in his first couple of years on the job... and that was as a new guy dealing with an idiot coach. I just don't understand the Grier hatred and just chalk it up to rank impatience.

Excellent post. Very detailed and informative.