Massive haul in the draft | Page 13 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Massive haul in the draft

Feverdream said:
I think there are two separate conversations to be had here. Did Grier do a good job with the tear down and obtaining draft picks for players we were jettisoning? And were the players we selected successful? You might add... was he successful when he was attempting to work with previous coaches... but I'll leave that one alone for a bit.
The answer to the first question really can't be anything but yes. He blew up the roster in a way that few teams have ever done, and in so doing, he netted so many picks that we controlled the board in 2020 and again in 2021, and gave the Dolphins tons of cap space. Space, we used to bring in Jones, Lawson, Ogbah, Flowers etc.
The second question is trickier... because people want to blame him for moves made when he wasn't fully in charge... I'm going to reject that, and just look at '19 and '20. Thus far, the '19 yielded only one real clunker. Prince... a 6th round project that we quickly soured upon. Dieter might be a miss, but it is still to early to say for sure. The rest of that draft is looking pretty good. Wilkins is rated as one of top 5 run stopping DTs, Van Ginkle is REALLY stepping up after an injury plagued rookie season (and as a 5th round pick too), Gaskin has become our starting running back from the 6th round, and Cox has been a nice blocking back with that forgettable 7th round pick. Not bad... no great stars yet, but Wilkins and Van Ginkle sure look like they are going to be pretty damned good.
In '20, Grier beefed up the scouting department... something a competent GM does ... and it looks like we've struck gold. I won't recount these players... we all know them.

So what I'm left with is that many posters want to blame Grier because he was part of the equation while trying to work with a coach who we all now see is incompetent. Trying to work with Gase and give Gase the type of players that he wanted didn't work. That said, some decent players were drafted in 17 and 18. Jason Sanders, Smythe and Gesicki... Baker, Minkah (spits), Godchaux, McMillan, Ford... Were these drafts great? No... but they weren't as bad as some claim. Yes, Charles Harris didn't work out, and no, Minkah couldn't learn to act like a grown man, but these players have proven to be NFL caliber players.

If you look around the league and check out what other teams have done, you'll see about the same ratio of hits to misses that Grier managed in his first couple of years on the job... and that was as a new guy dealing with an idiot coach. I just don't understand the Grier hatred and just chalk it up to rank impatience.
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Some forget that being a GM of any sports franchise is like players who go on a hot streak and then go through slumps. When a GM gets on a hot streak it mostly likely means playoffs, division champs and perhaps more. It ain't easy drafting and signing F/A, especially with coaching changes every few years.

Constant turnover means constantly having to find the new guys type of player. Not easy!!! If the F/O and coaching staff are on the same page, like a team like the Pittsburgh Steelers, who always seem to find players who fit. It could mean long term success and stability, with limited bumps in the road.

If Grier and Flores can develop that in Miami, only good things should happen.
 
ChitownPhins28 said:
I think Iggy will be quite good as a CB3/slot corner by the end of the year and will be groomed as X's replacement at the boundary next year. There's certain physical traits you look for in CB, like good hips, that, if you have, you can be trained to be good in the NFL and Iggy clearly has, which is why he was selected.
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When asked at a recent PC, Coach Flo said that Iggy is absolutely NOT a slot CB. He says he's boundary corner depth and that's it. :shrug:
 
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Sometimes it takes a while to find a good partner to build a team. Maybe Grier is finding his match with Flo. We are trending upward and may win the division, yet we have not opened up our best Christmas present yet in Tua, Fun times to be a dolphin fan.
 
OrangeBowl said:
Uh, you didnt research maddison and surtain. They didnt "take years to be good". Maddison led the leauge in int's his second year and the following year he started his run of 4 pro bowl appearances. Surtain took 2 seasons to really break out big but he was solid day 1 and was obviously going to be great. He went to 3 superbowls starting his 3rd season.

Didnt exactly take "years" for them to get good.
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Surtain was 22 his rookie year and Madison was 23. Igbo is still 20. He will only have one year left on his contract by the time he's around the age that Madison was starting 3 games.
 
Think the jury is still out on a lot of these guys. This past draft is looking better by the week.

Was curious about our two 5th rounder DEs. Weaver wasn't even wanted at all. And strowbridge can't even see the field? Does he suck that bad or what?
 
CSONKA1966 said:
Sometimes it takes a while to find a good partner to build a team. Maybe Grier is finding his match with Flo. We are trending upward and may win the division, yet we have not opened up our best Christmas present yet in Tua, Fun times to be a dolphin fan.
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Agree. There's a reason a lot of teams take years (decades) to move from the cellar to playoff contention. Have to find a competent GM, a top HC and QB. Those are exceedingly difficult which is why teams try over and over to get them. Impatient fans tend to think it's as easy as going into BestBuy. In this case, it seems, like it or not, Miami has a competent GM, top HC (to date), TT, AND starters this year and potential starters in a year or two. The next step is 'repeat.'
 
OrangeBowl said:
Uh, you didnt research maddison and surtain. They didnt "take years to be good". Maddison led the leauge in int's his second year and the following year he started his run of 4 pro bowl appearances. Surtain took 2 seasons to really break out big but he was solid day 1 and was obviously going to be great. He went to 3 superbowls starting his 3rd season.

Didnt exactly take "years" for them to get good.
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They also didn't start in the Pro Bowl as rookies or 2nd year players...
 
OrangeBowl said:
Uh, you didnt research maddison and surtain. They didnt "take years to be good". Maddison led the leauge in int's his second year and the following year he started his run of 4 pro bowl appearances. Surtain took 2 seasons to really break out big but he was solid day 1 and was obviously going to be great. He went to 3 superbowls starting his 3rd season.

Didnt exactly take "years" for them to get good.
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It was not obvious that Surtain was going to be a great player, or even a starter after his rookie season. There was some real talent sitting ahead of him on the depth chart. Madison was so physically gifted that his ascension almost seemed inevitable. But even so I'm not sure anyone would have been ready to anoint him after his rookie campaign.

Like another poster said these guys were 24/25 yrs old when they broke out. Igbo is still a pup.
 
Ferretsquig said:
It was not obvious that Surtain was going to be a great player, or even a starter after his rookie season. There was some real talent sitting ahead of him on the depth chart. Madison was so physically gifted that his ascension almost seemed inevitable. But even so I'm not sure anyone would have been ready to anoint him after his rookie campaign.

Like another poster said these guys were 24/25 yrs old when they broke out. Igbo is still a pup.
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Yeah, Madison and Surtain were 25 and 26 respectively when they made the pro bowl.
 
Through 6 games, I'd say its a bit early for me to say what any of these players will be long term. Last year many thought Calhoun was the guy but he is long gone after one season. I do think the OL is night and day (better) from last year. I don't think any of them are consistently dominating but the fact that 3 rookies are/were playing and not screwing up is pretty encouraging. Fitz is getting rid of the ball so quickly that it may be disguising some issues in pass protection. He is like 3rd in the league in time of release. All three of these guys have some flash plays but they still need to get better. Our run game has looked better as well thanks to the play of Gaskins but we are still 30th in the league in yards per carry at 3.8.

I will say, I am optimistic about the rookie OL selections. Kindley is a wide load. I hope he can put it all together. Jackson certainly looked more than capable. Still need to see more from Hunt to see if he is a long term solution at RT or whether he is a guard. Overall, its been impressive to see such a quick turnaround for this unit. I may be jaded after so many draft AND free agent flops on the OL but the 6 players that have snaps look decent.

They will be tested on the interior this week!

Iggy has some work to do. I found it odd that they didn't work him at nickel in the OS as I thought that would be his fit. Might have been too difficult with the weird off-season. He has the skills and should get better. Coaches obviously agree as he has 10 and 13 snaps in the last two games.

As far as the 2021 draft, we are wide open. We could take just about any spot outside of corner or QB in the first round. We don't have any gaping holes but could use upgrades all over the place.

A stud ILB could make a big impact as we try to field a dominant defense. We could also use a stud edge player. We don't have a dominant DT but Wilkins is on a good trajectory. I think Godchaux will probably be let go in FA. DT is still a need. WR is also up there. We need someone who can separate and make plays so Tua can show off the deep ball and quick slants. We just need impact players at all those positions.

We always say a good draft is finding 3 players to start and play well. That is with the normal 7-8 selections. We acquired 12 players in this draft including Bowden. We still only have 3 legit starters at this point in the season although others are getting significant snaps.

Starters: Tua, Jackson, Kindley (Jackson is out but does Hunt get benched if he returns?)

Davis, Jones and Hunt are getting a good amount snaps for whatever reason. Weaver is gone. Iggy got benched. Davis had his snaps reduced even with Godchaux out. Seiler has gotten many more snaps.

(ignore the CBS grades below)

15QB Tua Tagovailoa, AlabamaB
118*OT Austin Jackson, USCC-
130*CB Noah Igbinoghene, AuburnA+
239OL Robert Hunt, Louisiana-LafayetteB-
256*DL Raekwon Davis, AlabamaD+
370S Brandon Jones, TexasD+
4111*G Solomon Kindley, GeorgiaA
5154*DL Jason Strowbridge, North CarolinaC+
5164*EDGE Curtis Weaver, Boise StateA+
6185LS Blake Ferguson, LSUF
7246*WR Malcolm Perry, NavyC+
 
Finlandia said:
Think the jury is still out on a lot of these guys. This past draft is looking better by the week.

Was curious about our two 5th rounder DEs. Weaver wasn't even wanted at all. And strowbridge can't even see the field? Does he suck that bad or what?
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No dude.

He's a rookie D lineman that doesn't play special teams.

Hopefully he'll practice his way into some playing time as the season goes on, so we can get a look at him.

Most player's biggest jump comes between rookie year and second year. His pre-draft profile even said he'll need time to mold his body into a DT or an edge rusher. He could do either.

Many players need that offseason strength program.
 
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Feverdream said:
I think there are two separate conversations to be had here. Did Grier do a good job with the tear down and obtaining draft picks for players we were jettisoning? And were the players we selected successful? You might add... was he successful when he was attempting to work with previous coaches... but I'll leave that one alone for a bit.
The answer to the first question really can't be anything but yes. He blew up the roster in a way that few teams have ever done, and in so doing, he netted so many picks that we controlled the board in 2020 and again in 2021, and gave the Dolphins tons of cap space. Space, we used to bring in Jones, Lawson, Ogbah, Flowers etc.
The second question is trickier... because people want to blame him for moves made when he wasn't fully in charge... I'm going to reject that, and just look at '19 and '20. Thus far, the '19 yielded only one real clunker. Prince... a 6th round project that we quickly soured upon. Dieter might be a miss, but it is still to early to say for sure. The rest of that draft is looking pretty good. Wilkins is rated as one of top 5 run stopping DTs, Van Ginkle is REALLY stepping up after an injury plagued rookie season (and as a 5th round pick too), Gaskin has become our starting running back from the 6th round, and Cox has been a nice blocking back with that forgettable 7th round pick. Not bad... no great stars yet, but Wilkins and Van Ginkle sure look like they are going to be pretty damned good.
In '20, Grier beefed up the scouting department... something a competent GM does ... and it looks like we've struck gold. I won't recount these players... we all know them.

So what I'm left with is that many posters want to blame Grier because he was part of the equation while trying to work with a coach who we all now see is incompetent. Trying to work with Gase and give Gase the type of players that he wanted didn't work. That said, some decent players were drafted in 17 and 18. Jason Sanders, Smythe and Gesicki... Baker, Minkah (spits), Godchaux, McMillan, Ford... Were these drafts great? No... but they weren't as bad as some claim. Yes, Charles Harris didn't work out, and no, Minkah couldn't learn to act like a grown man, but these players have proven to be NFL caliber players.

If you look around the league and check out what other teams have done, you'll see about the same ratio of hits to misses that Grier managed in his first couple of years on the job... and that was as a new guy dealing with an idiot coach. I just don't understand the Grier hatred and just chalk it up to rank impatience.
Click to expand...

I really enjoyed the part where you spit. lol
 
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