merged:KC wants to give us a 4th for Surtain..wtf?

phinman1

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phunwin said:
They're just trying to barter with us, that's all. Relax guys, there's no way the Phins would give up Surtain for a 4th.
Don't be so sure. Teams know next year Pat is a free agent and we will not give him big bucks, he will definitely go elsewhere. Saban also wouldn't franchise him. So do we want something for Pat this year, or nothing for him next year?

The one possible hitch in my scenario is would we receive compensation for Pat next year if we lose him to free agency? If so, what round? If it's higher than a fourth, then we definitely tell KC to shove their 4th rounder.
 

Muck

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The highest compensatory pick you can be awarded is a 3rd rounder. But it comes the following year.

So the question is, do we aim for a 2nd round pick this year, or a possible 3rd in 2007??
 

Prime

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I think that Saban should call the Cheifs and ask for their 2nd or no deal. The reason that they didnt want to give up their 2nd is because they didnt have a 3rd. Now they got a 3rd and hopefully now they will open up to their 2nd rounder.
 

LithoMan

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Huscroft6 said:
Yea, I agree with all, a 4th rounder??? I mean I know there "bartering" but I would have seriously just laughed at that one. Anyway, unless the Fins dont get at least a late 2nd or better than keep him for the year while trying to patch things up and maybe re-work an offer or at worst take the hit this year while in a rebuilding mode, and his salary is gone next year, plus well have 1 Hell of a Defense this year!!!! Wait t il draft day, if nothing happens, keep him. Personally I love the guy and wouldnt mind if the worst thing that happened was we get to see him play along Sam 1 more year while Poole gets his feet more wet.
Only thing is, it's Pat's last year, you have to pay him his due money anyways, so you might as well hang on to him, and play him for 2005. we have to pay him anyways. Then his contract is done, and he's a FA. But, he is under contract to us for 2005 though.
 

Justasportsfan

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Surtains cap hit makes him undesirable to most teams especially since teams like NE have proven you can win it all w/ rookies , back-ups as long as you have the coaches.
 

PoorRichard

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This morning's KC Star newspaper

The Dolphins are asking for the Chiefs' second-round pick, and the Chiefs have reportedly offered a fourth-rounder. The Chiefs recently gained a third-round compensatory pick from the NFL to cover Tait's loss in free-agency, but comp picks can't be traded.

Having the extra pick, however, could make the Chiefs more comfortable in trading their second-round choice.
 

Prime

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PoorRichard said:
The Dolphins are asking for the Chiefs' second-round pick, and the Chiefs have reportedly offered a fourth-rounder. The Chiefs recently gained a third-round compensatory pick from the NFL to cover Tait's loss in free-agency, but comp picks can't be traded.

Having the extra pick, however, could make the Chiefs more comfortable in trading their second-round choice.

I think at the end they will give up their 2nd rounder instead of their 4th.
 

outlawd2u

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Is a 4th Rounder better than nothing???? Because that's exactly what we will get for him if we don't trade him THIS YEAR.......NOTHING. Also it seems as though the team is relying on shipping Surtain out to be able to afford other players/draft picks(and you think other teams don't know this as well???). We may get screwed on the deal, but it COULD end up being a deal we have to make
 

CrunchTime

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Muck said:
There's a few things that everyone needs to know and understand.

#1) King Carl (Peterson, KC's GM) is NOTORIOUSLY slow in negotiating trades, contracts, etc. That's his reputation around the league. Slowest in the biz.

#2) There's no reason for KC to just give in now. Not when they have until April 23 to get something done. They still have time and Ty Law on their side as leverage.

We will not be giving up Surtain if we don't get value for him. This is a precident-setting transaction in the Saban era. If we give up Surtain for a 4th or whatever, it will show the rest of the league that we can be had or gotten the better of in trade negotiations.......just like before. That harms our long-term prospects. And Saban will not allow it to happen.
Exactly. Peterson doesnt feel any pressure because there are no other apparent suitors and he hopes the shoe will drop if the Dolphins feel the pressure.Wanny would have taken the fourth round pick and come up with some lame explanation .

RS demostrated that he is an easy mark in negotiations and teams will keep testing the Dolphin FO until they show that things have changed.Saban has to stick to his guns .If I were him I would keep Surtain until the draft where Surtain could be part of a blockbuster trade to get more picks.

What would help is interest from another team.
 

Prime

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outlawd2u said:
Is a 4th Rounder better than nothing???? Because that's exactly what we will get for him if we don't trade him THIS YEAR.......NOTHING. Also it seems as though the team is relying on shipping Surtain out to be able to afford other players/draft picks(and you think other teams don't know this as well???). We may get screwed on the deal, but it COULD end up being a deal we have to make

Yes, i do agree somewhat. But the Cheifs isnt that dumb just by offering a 4th rounder. I know they are offering it right now, they are just warming up to the trade talks with us. if they add a 3rd rounder next year then i would accept that trade offer.
 

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TPD1479 said:
They really want to give a 3rd instead of a 2nd so they offered a 4th thinking we'll take the 3rd
Well, they cant offer there 3rd this year since it was a pick that the NFL gave them. I am thinking that we will try to offer their next year 3rd and this year 4th.
 

Justasportsfan

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Muck said:
.

#2) There's no reason for KC to just give in now. Not when they have until April 23 to get something done. They still have time and Ty Law on their side as leverage. .
:up:

Muck said:
.
We will not be giving up Surtain if we don't get value for him. This is a precident-setting transaction in the Saban era. If we give up Surtain for a 4th or whatever, it will show the rest of the league that we can be had or gotten the better of in trade negotiations.......just like before. That harms our long-term prospects. And Saban will not allow it to happen.
then again, if Suratins cap will hurt the fins , he may very well get rid of Surtain just like BB wasn't scared to let Law and Milloy go.
 

Caldolfan

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I would rather get nothing for him next year than give him up for a forth this year.
 

Kucha

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I think that they're posturing so that they can turn around and try to manipulate us into accepting their 3rd rounder (compensatory pick) which is more like an early 4th rounder because it's at the very end of the 3rd round. PS is worth more than that, imo! I agree with the people above: 2nd Round pick or no deal! That or, go ahead and give us their fourth this year and their 2nd rounder next year.
 
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