MERGED: NBA Labor Agreement / Age Limit
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Crisis
Hair Crisis!
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Charles Barkley said it best about the age limit.
People look at the success stories of the high school, but no one looks at the failures. How many kids out of HS don't get drafted and don't have a degree to lean on. Atleast with the one year in college they have something to lean back on if their basketball career doesn't work out. Especially with the # of HS entries increasing every year.
People look at the success stories of the high school, but no one looks at the failures. How many kids out of HS don't get drafted and don't have a degree to lean on. Atleast with the one year in college they have something to lean back on if their basketball career doesn't work out. Especially with the # of HS entries increasing every year.
It's a well-known fact that most of the players coming out of high school are black(sh-t, if not all). I can't remember the last successful white dude to go from high school ball to the NBA, sorry. White America just isn't ready for 18-year old rich black folks making the headlines. Yeah, that sounds blatant, but it is what it is & I never shy away from what's real. Some players just don't need the college experience. There are many guys who had teams waiting years on them to develop(Jermaine O'Neal in Portland is your prime example), but he came along with Indiana from all the leaning and exposure he had. LeBron James & Amare Stoudemire are the exceptions of players who go from high school to stardom within a year or two. But really, I honestly believe that if more white guys came straight from high school with success, this labor would've never been passed. Not only can you ask Jermaine O'Neal who said that nationally on ABC during the season, but you can ask Larry Bird as well. College slows down the development of certain types of players. Certain players get nothing out of college ball and are better off sitting on the bench for a year or two and learning the ropes. This rule is stupid because the players who were planning on coming straight out of high school will now just go to college for 1-year, with the ambition of just getting through that year and leaving a good impression on scouts. It's not like they're making the kids go & get a degree, so there's no difference to me.DonShula84 said:
:escape:PhinDude88 said:
DonShula84
Sporty Don
2 Pistolz said:
I know the majority, if not all, the kids coming from high school are black. But I dont think the league is taking away from them by making them go to college for a year. Perhaps some will go and even stay longer. White America isnt ready to see 18 year black kids rich and in the headlines, but they are ready when they turn 19? That doesnt make sense to me.
LtDan
I am a Dan but not a Lt.
That's complete crap! Perhaps it would GIVE them a college education. I think the rule should be made even older like football! Force kids to keep their grades up so they can get into college. Otherwise they blow off their education trying to make the NBA. If they don't make it, what do they fall back on??2 Pistolz said:
phunwin
The name's Bond...James Bond.
Unfortunately, most of these kids who are in a position to jump from high school to the NBA wrote off the concept of getting an education some time ago. That's partly their fault, and partly the fault of their schools (high and collegiate), who don't really give a damn if they get an education, and won't take the necessary steps to get them to focus on it (i.e. suspending kids for bad grades or coming up short with credits). So, the "get an education" argument doesn't work. Frankly, a lot of these high schools and colleges are just basketball factories, who use these kids for the time they can, and send them out into the world without the education they need. I'll point, as I always do, to the U of Cincinnati, which hasn't graduated a player since Oscar Robertson. The system needs fixing, but the kids don't really care and the schools don't care, so that's that. </rant>
But there's a lot to be said for getting some of these kids to see themselves for what they are. Far more high schoolers flop than turn into Kevin Garnett. A year at the college level, to really see what the strengths and weaknesses in their game are, will do wonders for them. Best recent example is Charlie Villanueva. Charlie badly wanted to jump from HS to the NBA, but everyone said, "Charlie, go to school, you're not going to be drafted." So he did. He spent two years at UConn and is now likely to go in the middle of round 1. I thought he should have spent a third year; he'd have been a lottery pick for sure if he came out next year, but I digress. A lot of these kids have real holes in their games when they jump right from high school, and for all but the ultra-talented few (LeBron, Amare, KG, T-Mac), it's a terrible move.
Now, I will note that the expansion of the D-League makes the age limit less important, because some of these kids are able to work out problems in their game at the NBDL level. And that's probably why the owners were willing to bend on the 20-year old limit.
But there's a lot to be said for getting some of these kids to see themselves for what they are. Far more high schoolers flop than turn into Kevin Garnett. A year at the college level, to really see what the strengths and weaknesses in their game are, will do wonders for them. Best recent example is Charlie Villanueva. Charlie badly wanted to jump from HS to the NBA, but everyone said, "Charlie, go to school, you're not going to be drafted." So he did. He spent two years at UConn and is now likely to go in the middle of round 1. I thought he should have spent a third year; he'd have been a lottery pick for sure if he came out next year, but I digress. A lot of these kids have real holes in their games when they jump right from high school, and for all but the ultra-talented few (LeBron, Amare, KG, T-Mac), it's a terrible move.
Now, I will note that the expansion of the D-League makes the age limit less important, because some of these kids are able to work out problems in their game at the NBDL level. And that's probably why the owners were willing to bend on the 20-year old limit.
phunwin said:
That's the only thing worth a quote in this thread. That's exactly how it is.
My school(Miami Norland Sr. High) didn't give a damn about the education either. Fortunately, me along with most of my people decided to actually go to school, do all the work, get good grades, and get a scholarship. But really, the schools don't care. The education argument here is absolutely stupid, I mean...what the hell is ONE YEAR of college education gonna do for you? Like Phun said, these kids already have the idea that college isn't needed to make it to the NBA, so 95% of them will go to college just to maintain the required GPA/standards to be eligable to play for one year, then it's off to the NBA. I'd say about 5% of these kids who don't plan on going to college, actually go there because they have to and wind up sticking around for a degree. These kids aren't stupid, they know that they can very easily not play, have a bad season, wind up with academic failure, and/or an injury and drop or completely lose their stock. Sure, even if there is only one person who does this it's a success in a way, but really...at age 18 & graduating high school, you should have an idea of what you want: a college education or whatever else(in this instance, it's obviously the NBA). If you need to be FORCED to go to college for a year just to realize that's where you belong, in my opinion...you don't belong anywhere important. I swear, the "bright side" is the only thing America ever thinks of - that's why this country is so f-cked up(sorry, like I said...it is what it is).
And I really hate to use a movie as an example, but the school system in Coach Carter where Samuel L. Jackson fought AGAINST parents and teachers/administration to get the kids to be actual students = a prime example of how most public schools are today. Hell, at my school if a star football or basketball player had a 40% in that class and rarely ever showed up, he was still guaranteed to get a C or B in that class. Teachers do their "creative math" to make sure the superstars remain eligable to go get the school more trophies. I've seen it with my own eyes - I knew many people on the football & basketball teams throughout my high school career. Fellow Florida residents don't believe me? Send your kid(s) to Norland, Carol City, Central, etc. Yeah, we all leave with incredible knowledge of sports, hip hop, and sex(unless you're just ugly, LOL j/k)...but how many actually get an education?
phunwin said:
See, that I can agree with. However, the way I grew up was to make my own decisions unless it was a situation of life, death, or drugs. As far as your future is concerned, at 18, you need to be able to make your own decisions. It's great that Villanueva decided to listen to those around him, because I remember when he wanted to come out and every mock draft on the net either had him between 40-50 or undrafted. See, he was smart enough to listen, focus, and make the decision to go to college and spend two years(yeah, he should've stayed for his Junior year because he'd be a lock for the lottery next year if he stays healthy). Personally, all of these high school players are at least 18-years old and grown men, although some are still very immature. At this stage in their lives, I think it's important that the league allows them to make their own decisions. Yeah, it is getting ridiculous when you see a guy like Sebastian Telfair enter last year's draft when he's the type of player who would've DOMINATED the college level, but you know what...life is all about choices and we live by/die by the choices we make.
I was all in favor of a developmental league in the NBA & an age limit of 18, but this is just ridiculous. The purpose of the minor league is somewhat defeated here. The idea of putting the raw, unpolished high schoolers like Dorell Wright, Shaun Livingston, etc.(hell, maybe even J.R. Smith who didn't come along until about January) in a 2-year developmental program was excellent. Of course, as long as you are allowed to pull players out during any portion of the regular season.
EDIT: Every thread about the NBA's new agreement should be merged into one big thread.
DPlus47
Out with LaMaga, in with Talita!
2 Pistolz said:
i agree we tend to ignore things here, especially history and the consequences of our own behavior. we're great at applying high standards to everyone else, and no standards to ourselves.
that said, i'm gonna go crazy and say that there's one benefit to the age limit thing: some veteran players will now get to play for another year, and that can be good for their financial futures.
phunwin
The name's Bond...James Bond.
The best thing about the age limit is that it prevents the NBA from continuing to strip-mine college basketball. That's why I'm for it, no other reason. Other than that, there's no real point to it now that there's a true minor league.
Here's Ethan Skolnick's take on the issue (from his blog)...
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/columnist/weblog/archives/2005/06/the_nbas_ageold.html
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/columnist/weblog/archives/2005/06/the_nbas_ageold.html
RWhitney014
Ginger Whit
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2 Pistolz said:
Robert Swift was drafted by the Sonics in the first round, I believe. An very few, if any, of the white Euros coming into the league went to high school. Still, your point is correct. This whole situation is a microcosm of what's wrong with American education today. When it's cool to do drugs and flash guns, there's something seriously wrong.
FIN-IN-RI
☠️ Banned ☠️
It's not really that much of a limit but at least it makes kids go to college (or stay back a year or two in high school)
phunwin
The name's Bond...James Bond.
RWhitney014 said:
Yes, Swift was a first round pick. He is, I believe, the only American white guy to go from high school to the pros.
Effectively, most of the European kids who come over are 18 or 19, so they have the same problem adjusting. This, as an aside, is why I get pissy when people talk about Darko Milicic as a bust. He was 18 years old when drafted. People say "well, Pau Gasol became an excellent pro right away", which is true, but Gasol was also 20 or 21 and had been a regular starter in the Spanish League for a few years. Jermaine O'Neal is a much more appropriate comparison for Milicic; big man comes right out of high school around his 18th birthday, and he took awhile to develop.
I'm off topic, of course, so I'll just say that yes, the system is screwed up, and no, there's no real incentive to change it as yet, so it's probably going to stay that way, unfortunately.