[MERGED] Senator wants to meet with Commish about Destroyed Tapes

[MR NFLFAN]

This conversation is a little old but Im going to throw in my two cents anyhow.

The Patriots are guilty of breaking the rules. That is agreed upon. It makes no difference if all 32 teams are cheating, or just one. Only the Patriots got caught. Mangini blew the whistle on him and he did it publically. The leauge investigated it and penalized the team.

The leauges investigation and punishment was a controversial decission. Enough so, that a US senator saw an opprotunity to score some political points out of it. Spectors motivation is suspect but calling for hearings is not unjustified.

I have trouble with the term cheating here. They violated rules. How severe was the violation? I dont know and apparently noone will because the leauge deystroyed the evidence before it could be viewed, and evaluated by an independent non bias party. That is a big problem. It leads people to assume the worst.

If the information gathered was really inconsquental, then the Pats should be calling for Godells head on a stick. There is no excuse for deystroying evidence that involves the integrity of a multi billion dollar corporation. What if this was enron and you were told the evidence was viewed internally and then deystroyed. It would not sit well with alot of people.

This thing is a big mess. Patriot fans in general come off with a "circle the wagons" type persona over this. They should be the loudest voices of protest in this. They should want a full, fair, complete investigation with the results released publicly to exaunerate thier reputation. If they are only guily of something petty, this will put it to rest once and for all. If it is something more, then they stand with chacter and denounce thier hometown franchise, because it isnt a reputation that thier community wants to be repesented as.

Patriots community in general is not doing that. They are coming off as resentfull and defensive. People are thinking the worst of them because of it.

I think some of the critizims about the teams smugness and arrogance is justifable and accurate, but some of it is overblown too. There has been a lot of insulting manuvers by both sides, and its had a snowball effect all season. Both sides seem to be caught up in trying to out do the other side.

All in all I have to say this is one of the ugliest football seasons I can remember going all the way back to the players strike.

I've said this before but I'm going to say it again. It has since been confirmed by Roger Goodell that what he got was 6 more video tapes just as we saw from the leaked fox tape. Now we hear of some kid who worked for the Patriots for a couple of yrs and was fired by the team who claims to have something. Are these accusations or does this guy actually have some physical proof? I find the timing of this source to be suspect at best and wonder where was this guy some 5 months ago?

You mentioned that it makes no difference weather all 32 teams were cheating or not as the Patriots were the only team to be caught. Then we heard Jimmy Johnson publically admit to doing the same thing but most fans have turned a deaf ear to his statements which in my eyes are equal to confession of guilt. Why is that?

My thoughts on it are that this indeed had been a common thing throughout the league for many years. The commisioner who isn't a stupid man and had knowledge of this as he aluded to with his statements that to most in professional sports it is widely known that signals are stolen in one form or another. I don't believe the league wants to really investigate what it already knows yet has turned its own blind eye on for many years. Where does it end or better yet does it ever end? Should Senator Specter depose Jimmy Johnson and have him name names of those he had contact with during his coaching days that also used the same practice? I think this could expose the entire league and all its dirty little secrets. As a pats fan I would love nothing better than to get to the truth and I'm talking the complete truth but as an NFL fan I'm afraid the truth would probably destroy the league.

I see this turning into another "Mitchel" report

 

[HaRdKoReXXX]

I've said this before but I'm going to say it again. It has since been confirmed by Roger Goodell that what he got was 6 more video tapes just as we saw from the leaked fox tape. Now we hear of some kid who worked for the Patriots for a couple of yrs and was fired by the team who claims to have something. Are these accusations or does this guy actually have some physical proof? I find the timing of this source to be suspect at best and wonder where was this guy some 5 months ago?

You mentioned that it makes no difference weather all 32 teams were cheating or not as the Patriots were the only team to be caught. Then we heard Jimmy Johnson publically admit to doing the same thing but most fans have turned a deaf ear to his statements which in my eyes are equal to confession of guilt. Why is that?

My thoughts on it are that this indeed had been a common thing throughout the league for many years. The commisioner who isn't a stupid man and had knowledge of this as he aluded to with his statements that to most in professional sports it is widely known that signals are stolen in one form or another. I don't believe the league wants to really investigate what it already knows yet has turned its own blind eye on for many years. Where does it end or better yet does it ever end? Should Senator Specter depose Jimmy Johnson and have him name names of those he had contact with during his coaching days that also used the same practice? I think this could expose the entire league and all its dirty little secrets. As a pats fan I would love nothing better than to get to the truth and I'm talking the complete truth but as an NFL fan I'm afraid the truth would probably destroy the league.

I see this turning into another "Mitchel" report

Next time can you provide a link or video of Jimmy Johnson admitting to doing these things you speak of? Others here may have hear of this but I haven't, Thanks.

BTW if you really want to know why alot of people are dogging the Pats when "supposedly" other teams are doing similar things, I'll tell you.

A) Your coach is one of if not the biggest D-Bag in the NFL.
B) Your QB is ****y and arrogant
C) And no one likes your owner.

So don't consider it a shock that some people out there (wink) probably didnt mind to see your team get caught. You are the company you keep my friend...

 

[MR NFLFAN]

Next time can you provide a link or video of Jimmy Johnson admitting to doing these things you speak of? Others here may have hear of this but I haven't, Thanks.

BTW if you really want to know why alot of people are dogging the Pats when "supposedly" other teams are doing similar things, I'll tell you.

A) Your coach is one of if not the biggest D-Bag in the NFL.
B) Your QB is ****y and arrogant
C) And no one likes your owner.

So don't consider it a shock that some people out there (wink) probably didnt mind to see your team get caught. You are the company you keep my friend...

Don't forget

D) no one like a team that wins too much :D

 

[Miami 13]

Don't forget

D) no one like a team that wins too much :D

I loved NE's 18-1 failure season....

 

[TomBradyWoot]

I loved NE's 18-1 failure season....

And I'd take an 18-1 "failure" season over a 1-15 FAILURE season.

 

[MR NFLFAN]

Next time can you provide a link or video of Jimmy Johnson admitting to doing these things you speak of? Others here may have hear of this but I haven't, Thanks.

BTW if you really want to know why alot of people are dogging the Pats when "supposedly" other teams are doing similar things, I'll tell you.

A) Your coach is one of if not the biggest D-Bag in the NFL.
B) Your QB is ****y and arrogant
C) And no one likes your owner.

So don't consider it a shock that some people out there (wink) probably didnt mind to see your team get caught. You are the company you keep my friend...

Here you go. Note that Johnson admits to video taping and circumventing the 15 sec cutoff rule.

I believe had this not been leaked to fox sports we wouldn't have even heard about it just as we never heard about the league finding out and telling him to stop circumventing the 15 sec cutoff when he coached the dolphins.
Still think you are the company you keep my friend?

http://www.boston.com/sports/footba...ation_still_swirling_around_mcdaniels/?page=2
Signal from Johnson

Fox studio analyst Jimmy Johnson reiterated his stance that the NFL's punishment of the Patriots' illegal videotaping procedures this year was overblown. He spoke passionately on the subject.

"The only thing I can say is so many people made such a big to-do about it, and everybody - and I mean everybody - went to the edge on rules in one form or fashion," Johnson said, reflecting on his coaching tenure with the Cowboys. "That's just part of the game, that's stealing the signals in baseball. This stuff has been going on for so long.
"When I came into the NFL, back in '89, I talked to a Kansas City scout and he said, 'Here's what we do, we videotape the opposing team's signals and then we synch it up with the game film.' So I did it."
Johnson admitted it was "borderline" but he ended up stopping because he didn't think the team got much out of it. He then spoke of other rules clubs pushed to the limit.
"When I went to the Dolphins and they talked about how you're supposed to have a 15-second cutoff [in communication] to your quarterback, but here is what we do [to circumvent that]," Johnson said. "They said they've always done this. So I said, 'OK, let's go ahead and do it.' Then the league said, 'Hey, we hear you're doing that, so don't do it anymore.'
"The point I'm making - I'm not trying to say everybody is cheaters - is that you have a rulebook that is so thick and you say 'How far can you go without breaking the rules?' When I coached the Cowboys, we didn't have this kind of scrutiny. But now, the scrutiny, every little thing we do - that's why I said the media blew it so far out of proportion.
"Would the commissioner have fined them and taken a draft pick if it had been the Arizona Cardinals? There is a lot of jealousy in this league. The high profile, it's almost making statement that 'I've got to do it because of who it is.' I know Bill Belichick very well, I know how he loves the NFL, he loves the history of the NFL, he loves the integrity of the NFL, that's why it irritates me that anyone would ever question that."

 

[Phin-o-rama]

i love that the pats dynasty is so tainted...

it rules

 

[Miami 13]

And I'd take an 18-1 "failure" season over a 1-15 FAILURE season.

I would take the Giants season out of anyones this year because they WON the Super Bowl. And NE's season ended in WORTHLESS FAILURE along with 31 NFL teams but it was so much sweeter seeing NE get embarrassed in the SB.

 

[Agua]

*

Bellicheat taping since 2000 when he joined Pats*

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080214/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_goodell_specter_11

 

[TomBradyWoot]

I would take the Giants season out of anyones this year because they WON the Super Bowl. And NE's season ended in WORTHLESS FAILURE along with 31 NFL teams but it was so much sweeter seeing NE get embarrassed in the SB.

You're so bitter, it must be because you've never seen your team in a Super Bowl.:hi5:

 

[MR NFLFAN]

*

Bellicheat taping since 2000 when he joined Pats*

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080214/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_goodell_specter_11

I think its time that Arlen Specter deposed JJ. Perhaps that might bring him into the 21st century of the NFL.

 

[Miami 13]

You're so bitter, it must be because you've never seen your team in a Super Bowl.:hi5:

lmao, bitter? I have been in such a great mood since the Super Bowl. How am I bitter? The Patriots had a worthless season, Miami had a worthless season. You play to win the Super Bowl and NE choked big time and I loved it along with every other Dolphins fan in the country :D. Actually probably every other non-NE fan in the country.:up:

 

[late again]

I guess it's now awfully clear as to how Belichick went from a losing coach to a genius.

 

[MR NFLFAN]

Here you go. Note that Johnson admits to video taping and circumventing the 15 sec cutoff rule.

I believe had this not been leaked to fox sports we wouldn't have even heard about it just as we never heard about the league finding out and telling him to stop circumventing the 15 sec cutoff when he coached the dolphins.
Still think you are the company you keep my friend?

http://www.boston.com/sports/footba...ation_still_swirling_around_mcdaniels/?page=2
Signal from Johnson

Fox studio analyst Jimmy Johnson reiterated his stance that the NFL's punishment of the Patriots' illegal videotaping procedures this year was overblown. He spoke passionately on the subject.

"The only thing I can say is so many people made such a big to-do about it, and everybody - and I mean everybody - went to the edge on rules in one form or fashion," Johnson said, reflecting on his coaching tenure with the Cowboys. "That's just part of the game, that's stealing the signals in baseball. This stuff has been going on for so long.
"When I came into the NFL, back in '89, I talked to a Kansas City scout and he said, 'Here's what we do, we videotape the opposing team's signals and then we synch it up with the game film.' So I did it."
Johnson admitted it was "borderline" but he ended up stopping because he didn't think the team got much out of it. He then spoke of other rules clubs pushed to the limit.
"When I went to the Dolphins and they talked about how you're supposed to have a 15-second cutoff [in communication] to your quarterback, but here is what we do [to circumvent that]," Johnson said. "They said they've always done this. So I said, 'OK, let's go ahead and do it.' Then the league said, 'Hey, we hear you're doing that, so don't do it anymore.'
"The point I'm making - I'm not trying to say everybody is cheaters - is that you have a rulebook that is so thick and you say 'How far can you go without breaking the rules?' When I coached the Cowboys, we didn't have this kind of scrutiny. But now, the scrutiny, every little thing we do - that's why I said the media blew it so far out of proportion.
"Would the commissioner have fined them and taken a draft pick if it had been the Arizona Cardinals? There is a lot of jealousy in this league. The high profile, it's almost making statement that 'I've got to do it because of who it is.' I know Bill Belichick very well, I know how he loves the NFL, he loves the history of the NFL, he loves the integrity of the NFL, that's why it irritates me that anyone would ever question that."

I'm not surprised that this post has largely been ignored here. Jimmy Johnsons admissions as well as Belichicks actions are just the tip of the iceburg of life in the NFL. If Senator Specter believes in honesty in football this is one of the guys he should be meeting with. It gives a perspective to the way the league has handled cheating in the past and also speaks to how long this sort of thing has been allowed to go on.

Its time to open this investigation up fully to the shady practices the league has turned a blind eye to.

 

[late again]

I'm not surprised that this post has largely been ignored here. Jimmy Johnsons admissions as well as Belichicks actions are just the tip of the iceburg of life in the NFL. If Senator Specter believes in honesty in football this is one of the guys he should be meeting with. It gives a perspective to the way the league has handled cheating in the past and also speaks to how long this sort of thing has been allowed to go on.

Its time to open this investigation up fully to the shady practices the league has turned a blind eye to.

Please!....Johnson says "everybody, I mean everybody went to the edge on rules". Elsewhere he states "I'm not trying to say everybody is cheaters (sic)" and then he says "How far can you go without breaking the rules"
Belichick did break the rules. Belichick went over the edge. That is why your quotes from JJ are being ignored.
All that aside, I agree that if this continues an awful lot of other teams will have the covers pulled off of them. However, right now Belichick is the only one who we know for certain has been cheating.