MERGED: Senior Bowl GameThread 4pm EST

[Lord Of Miami]

Roth had the shortest arms in the world and look how good he was for us last year. He went to the browns and continues to suceed.

Roth has short arms for how tall he is.At 6'3 1/2 his arms should be a few inch' longer then they are but he still has the arms of a 6'1 guy with his arms being 30 7/8 inch long.

Brandon Graham arms are not really that short for being how tall he is.At 6'1 his arms are 30 1/2 inch long.

Anyways no team would not draft a guy for having "short arms" in the 1st place but Bill Jeff and Tony have all passed on 6'1 OLB'ers many times.:tongue2:

 

[2413fanphins]

Mcclain can't cover and can't run... feel free to bring this thread up on draft day and I am willing to eat my words.

Mcclain will not be drafted until late in the first round.

will do.

 

[Pinkboy]

Anyways no team would not draft a guy for having "short arms" in the 1st place but Bill Jeff and Tony have all passed on 6'1 OLB'ers many times.:tongue2:

Aside from the height, Brandon Graham has every single quality and attribute this regime looks for in a first round draft pick.

I also heard from a very reputable source that Larry English was high on the Dolphins board last year, and likely would have been our pick at 25 if he was there and Vontae wasn't. English is only an inch taller than Graham and he weighed 12 pounds less than Graham when he came out.. Larry English went 16th overall.

But let's look at all the other attributes Graham has that this regime looks for in a 1st round pick:

1) Tough, Smart and Disciplined - Yes he is. VERY.. Check

2) He's a Michigan kid. Parcells loves great productive players who were long time starters from that school- see Jake Long and Henne.. Check

3) Gym rat - Absolutely. Just like Vontae Davis and Jake Long were dedicated gym rats.. two of their previous 1st round picks.. Check

4) Hard Worker - Absolutely. Graham plays every snap 110% with relentlessness and is a very hard worker off the field. Highly dedicated to his craft.. Check

5) Film Study - Absolutely. Graham is a film nut. Studies the game relentlessly and has an extremely high football IQ.. He was the leader in the film room on that team.. Check

6) Can he stop the run as a 1st round 3-4 OLB? - You bet. He is very good against the run. In the 1st round this regime looks for "complete" football players, that's why it was important for Vontae to be good against the run. If he wasn't, I don't think he would have been picked in the 1st by us.. Check

7) Physical.. Oh yes, Graham is extremely physical.. Check

8) Production - Absolutely.. Check

9) No "one-year wonders" need apply - This regime detests one year wonder types early in the draft in the 1st round.. They prefer players who produced over the long haul, not the short term. They like a track record. Graham played 47 college games and did what this regime looks for.. which is continued development and production over all those games played.. Check

10) Leadership - Graham has it in spades.. Check

11) Love for football - Graham has a very high level of passion and love for the game of football. He eats, sleeps, dreams and breathes football...another big thing this regime looks for when scouting players early in the draft.. Check.

12) Durability - Graham doesn't get injured. He is extremely durable, and has shown that over a 4 year span.. Check.

13) Did he bite as a pup? This is one of Parcells' most famous quotes. "If they don't bite as pups they won't bite". Graham had plenty of bite as a very young player early in his football career. And was the #1 linebacker recruit in the country out of high school.

14) Technically sound? - very technically sound. he is the most technically sound DE in the draft. In fact he is one of the most technically skilled players in the entire draft, regardless of position.. Check


Graham is definitely on our radar. The Dolphins coaching staff didn't run plays away from him 80% of the time yesterday because they don't know how good he is.. they definitely do.

 

[2413fanphins]

not sure I have seen enough of him to KNOW for sure, that he can stop the run as an OLB. I love him as a DE obviously, but I think somebody already may have stated it before, I usually see him burst past the OT doing his damage that way.

In yesterdays game in particular he did this. I saw limited action througout the year, so I have still have reservations as to whether he can shed tackels at the POA as an OLB in our system.

 

[flynryan15]

Ok let me say it again. If you put your TV on mute yesterday and just watched B. Graham make plays would you even notice is reach? Don't worry about what the commentators harp on in his measurements, just take notice of him dominating the field. Just like Mardy Gilyard, I don't care that the kid is Desaun Jackson's size! The kid took over the entire game several times this year both receiving and special teams! The kid destroyed Wanstaches defense, just gutted them like a fish! The kid is hungary he grew up poor, that has made him a baller! BIG HEART! I'll take B. Graham (1st) and M. Gilyard(2nd) and be VERY HAPPY! Those guys will spend every minute of everyday proving their critics wrong!

 

[Pinkboy]

I posted this in the Brandon Graham thread and thought it would be appropriate here:

Height is overrated. If a player plays a lot bigger than he is, then who cares. Height is mainly a concern for an OLB if he is mediocre against the run taking on blockers. And Graham certainly isn't that. He's quite good against the run in fact, and good at taking on blockers against the run driving OT's backwards. He is far better than some taller DE/OLB's are when it comes to playing the run.

The Dolphins had Larry English very high on their draft board last year. And English is just an inch taller than Graham. Plus English was smaller weighing 12 pounds less than Graham when he came out (8 lbs less at the senior bowl weigh-in as English put on a bit of weight before the senior bowl - 254 lbs).

And English wasn't nearly as strong physically as Graham is. Graham is stronger and more stout than English is at the point of attack as well. He's a bull.

So that extra inch of height certainly didn't help English be a better player against the run now, did it? And there is no doubt in my mind that Graham has better hips than English, has better quick sudden turn ability, and is faster. English ran in the 4.8's..

Watching and studying both players on the field, Graham certainly looks like the stronger player, has more explosion, more shifty, is better against the run, is better technique-wise, sheds blockers better, a wider array of pass rush moves, has a better arc to the QB coming in from the corner and gets there faster, has a better bend, handles the double-team better, he's much better at gaining leverage using his body and hands to gain that leverage, has a far better bull-rush than English, as well as the smarter and more determined player on an every-down basis.

And Larry English went 16th overall.

There is a reason why so many people are comparing Graham to Woodley and James Harrison. And when I say "people" I'm talking about professional football scouts. Because he has all of those attributes in spades. You never heard English being compared to those guys.

 

[flynryan15]

Yeah, to many people get to impressed with measurements and times. Just look at what the player does on the field. Graham was the one consistent bright sport on Michigan's D all year. Then you have McClain who was the field general of a great D, DOMINATE CHAMPIONSHIP D. Lot of people are banging on McClain in the BCS game, but remember he had the Flu and was on IV's before the game. That guy gives us something we don't have on defense and that is a Field General! IMO picking either of them at 12 we can't go wrong! My only hold back on Graham is the transition time from college DE to NFL 3-4 olb

 

[hoops]

the thing that we must keep in mind was graham was dominating some guys who imo aren't even left tackle pro prospects...i guess capers may be cause he has decent feet but ciron black no way no how...

i don't want to downplay what he did but i just wish the south had a better left tackle to see how he fared...

he's a top 20 guy all the way imo but we are putting the cart before the horse just assuming that graham can play 3-4 olb...

i do also think the swivel hips point is a good one...

i don't know that i agree that graham runs the arc better than larry english did...

 

[Pinkboy]

He dominated Bulaga who is a top 16 pick in this draft. And we're not talking about a play or two, we're talking about dominating him the whole game. And he also dominated Ducasse all week in practices, another 1st round OL. he dominated against the North and South OL all week. Not just the south team yesterday,

Brandon Graham scouting report from draftcountdown:

First of all, Brandon Graham ran a 10.9 100 meter dash in high school. And was the #1 Linebacker recruit in the country.

I think at the DE spot, even OLB in a 3-4, a long-limbed player is preferred. I said before, however, that I don't expect his short arms to hinder him inside in a 3-4, and to be honest, at OLB, I don't know that it would hold him back as a player as much as it would hold him back as a "prospect."

What we see so far are the most average attributes Graham possesses, his size measurements. I've always said I'm not crazy about the Woodley comparison, because I don't think Graham gets his due there. Brandon went into Michigan as the #1 Linebacker recruit in the country. He was presumed to have the physical skill-set, instincts, and ability to run in space to play ILB at an elite level. Now, the guy got very heavy his first few years and it became clear his role was going to be on the Defensive Line for the Wolverines.

Trying to block this guy without at least a Running Back or Tight End chipping is one of the toughest things I can think of. Graham is extremely explosive off the snap, has an eye for the football, and makes plays in the backfield (even against Big Ten OL that are 5 inches taller and 70 pounds heavier than him.) This guy plays up to competition and gave both Iowa (Bryan Bulaga) and Wisconsin (Gabe Carmini) fits. In Graham's three biggest Big 10 competition's (Ohio State-Iowa-Wisconsin), he totaled 27 Tackles 12.5 TFL 6 Sacks.

He's explosive, he uses his hands well, he has a variety of pass-rushing moves, and gets off blockers very well. What I need to see from him to verify the Top 15 label I have slapped on him, will be how he tests this week and at the Combine in space. He's tremendous at finding the football, is a team vocal leader, and has developed a great work ethic in practice and the weight room. Graham also possesses a non-stop motor, and uses leverage and core strength better than any DE in college football.

Most people don't know the reputation he possesses in the college world as a Workout Warrior. Graham is thick, he's chiseled, and he's going to make a splash in Indianapolis this year. He's a very explosive athlete on the field and off it, he should run a decent 40, should do well with his short-area quickness tests, and I'll come forward and say I 99% expect him over 30 bench reps, perhaps as high as 35 or so.

His football character is flawless. Earlier in his college career, Graham had very questionable weight problems that put his career in doubt, though he did find a way to be successful at any weight at any position. Eventually, he slimmed back down and found his home at Defensive End. No DE or defensive player has been as good as he has the past two years in the Big Ten. He's smart, he leads vocally, and leads by example on and off the field. He has an intricate knowledge of the game and possesses elite intangibles for the defensive side of the ball.

He made OL much bigger than himself look silly this past week, and I almost predicted that months ago. He's a special talent and it should show on a national scale this week. Brandon Graham may have been lost in the Rich Rod era, which brought a negative media outlook toward the Michigan program, but he definitely was a guy that was game-planned against. A Top 15 talent in my mind, with no business getting out of the Top 20. NFL teams can be a bit superficial, so I understand that it's not a guarantee he'll go quite that high. Still, I am confident in my analysis in Graham and believe he'll be a Pro Bowl player at the next level at OLB or ILB (maybe line up on the edge on passing downs.)

Pros
o + Explosive off the snap and quick to the backfield
o + Finds the ball well in space and in traffic
o + Core Strength - has anchor strength and plenty of upper body power
o + Plays with very impressive leverage, capable of moving the biggest OL
o + Uses a variety of pass-rush moves and excels getting to the QB
o + Non-stop motor, never quits and is an intimidator on the front line
o + Tremendous work ethic on the field, in the weight-room, and in the film room
o + Football instincts and intangibles are top notch for a defensive player
o + Elite College Production, officially the Michigan MVP last two years
o + Thick, chiseled physique
o + Top vocal leader on the field
o + Very Durable, played in 47 games at Michigan

 

[flynryan15]

the thing that we must keep in mind was graham was dominating some guys who imo aren't even left tackle pro prospects...i guess capers may be cause he has decent feet but ciron black no way no how...

i don't want to downplay what he did but i just wish the south had a better left tackle to see how he fared...

he's a top 20 guy all the way imo but we are putting the cart before the horse just assuming that graham can play 3-4 olb...

i do also think the swivel hips point is a good one...

i don't know that i agree that graham runs the arc better than larry english did...

That is a very good point! I was going to bring that up, but decided to spare myself the onslaught of negativity. After yesterday I don't see 1 South Olinemen going in the first 2 rounds. Hell 1 LT himself dropped the draft stock of every South QB.

That doesn't concen me as much as the transition to 3-4 olb for Graham. At best that is a 2-3 year time frame and I think the Dolphins are better served by someone like McClain who comes in and starts from day 1.

 

[flynryan15]

Grey,

Let me ask you this. Dakota Watson, can he transition to a LB on the Dolphins? Hell any LB spot, I watched this kid single hand takeover the Gator Bowl, then yesterday he is in the back field making the tackle on a key 3rd down and 4th and goal. This kid has great ball instincts, speed and is a great tackler. I have really been scratching my head on how we could use him and when he is drafted.

 

[hoops]

if i'm not mistaken wasn't bulaga just returning from a thyroid condition when he matched up with graham???

i'd like to see that matchup now cause i think bulaga is a heck of a tackle and he's fully healthy

 

[flynryan15]

From what I saw yesterday if you are a olinemen slated to go in the top 2 rounds you would have to be nuts to play in the Senior Bowl. Just impossible for those guys to gel as a unit, defense Tee's off on them and they look bad!

 

[hoops]

i think black is gonna be drafted as a right tackle or guard...i like john jerry more as a guy with that kind of versatility...

capers just doesn't do anything for me...i don't know what his value is considered though...i can't imagine it's all that high

bulaga and calloway from iowa are very good tackles...

 

[hoops]

heck it would have been nice to see how rodger saffold would have fared yesterday over those other guys playing left tackle... saffold was dominant and had great feet at the shrine bowl all week and in the game