MERGED: Shouldn't we take a look at Cleo Lemon?

[adamprez2003]

You're kind of assuming he hasn't already figured it out.

With short guys (Brees) and guys with low deliveries (Rivers)..you worry about two things.

Vision. Can he see everything on the field?

Low ball. Will he get passes batted down?

In the cases of Brees and Rivers it was easy to see that they had already learned to compensate for their shortcomings by virtue of the results. Brees distributed the ball extremely well in college, as did Rivers, and as does Smith. Also, neither Brees, nor Rivers, nor Smith, have ever had any trouble with getting balls batted down at the line...in fact they seem to be keenly aware of the passing lane issues, probably BECAUSE of their "handicap".

I'd definitely go with Stanton before Kolb. I've seen Kolb and I honestly see nothing special about him. Stanton makes big plays against big teams...yet didn't have an ideal team surrounding him.

where do you think Stanton will be slotted come draft day

 

[muscle979]

Seriously, there are several teams out of the playoff picture, are they just playing their 3rd string QBs for the hell of it? Who is he Rudy now? He's never played against anybody but scrubs and some of you just want him to come in to ensure that Miami finishes 5-11 this year. Who cares if he's slightly better than Joey or not? They'll both be on the bench next season. If not that means either Daunte is hurt or still sucks so we're screwed regardless.

 

[ckparrothead]

where do you think Stanton will be slotted come draft day

He enters the post-season process as somewhere on the first day of the draft.

But the post-season process can change a guy's stock dramatically. This time last year Jay Cutler was kind of a fast rising 2nd-3rd rounder.

 

[LemonPepper]

I suppose if you're satisfied with what Joey brings to the table, you would not want to see Lemon. I would like to see if there is a glimer of hope. After 5 years, I say Harrington has been given enough. He is what he is. And if that's all fans expect, we will be in for some long seasons.

 

[Rocky Raccoon]

I see reasons why Culpepper deserves that opportunity, given the success he has established in this league for a long time couple with his knee recovery, but I see no reason to continue giving Harrington opportunities that he has had and blown time and time again.

That's a good point but I don't think that matters. Saban is going to play whoever gives us the best chance to win. Obviously the odds are most likely against Joey at this point, but you never know what can happen. I have all the confidence in the world in Daunte's complete return, but I do see the question marks there.

 

[darrensls1]

Funny how you're the only one here who believes that.....

Most of the fans here think that Harrington did his job, and played well in all four victories. I think without Harrington, our offense would be a lot worse off at this stage....

He's not the only one here who believes that. I for one do not think Joey played well in all four victories. The only game he really looked good in was the Detroit game. The other three games he didn't look so hot IMO.

Against Chicago he was 16/32 for 137 yards with 3 TD & 2 INT. His completion percentage, total yards and two picks are all bad numbers. Three TD's are the only stat he had in that game that looked good. But when your defense is giving you fantastic field position then you have to credit them with the assist. If Joey has to drive the offense 60+ yards on every drive then I would bet anything we don't score 3 TD in that game.

Against KC he was 19/35 for 201 yards with 0 TD & 0 INT. His completion percentage and total yards are still below average IMO. He started out looking good but he still had problems hitting the open receivers. He also made a few very bad decisions that we were very lucky to not have been game killing interceptions. He had a decent first half to this game but didn't look very good in the second half (along with the rest of the offense) as they lead us to no second half points.

Against Minnesota he was 26/42 for 254 yards with 1 TD & 1 INT. His numbers were ok in this game for the most part. But once again he came out of the gate looking good and moving the chains but fell flat in the second half. That second half was all about our defense dominating and our offense stalling.

Against Detroit he was 19/29 for 213 yards with 3 TD & 1 INT. His stats were great. He looked good for all four quarters and I for one was a very happy camper on Turkey Day. I was hoping this kind of performance would roll over into the Jacksonville game but it was not meant to be.

Overall I think Joey has played well for a backup. But I honestly have to say he hasn't played well (other then against Detroit) for a first string QB.

 

[ckparrothead]

He's not the only one here who believes that. I for one do not think Joey played well in all four victories. The only game he really looked good in was the Detroit game. The other three games he didn't look so hot IMO.

Against Chicago he was 16/32 for 137 yards with 3 TD & 2 INT. His completion percentage, total yards and two picks are all bad numbers. Three TD's are the only stat he had in that game that looked good. But when your defense is giving you fantastic field position then you have to credit them with the assist. If Joey has to drive the offense 60+ yards on every drive then I would bet anything we don't score 3 TD in that game.

Against KC he was 19/35 for 201 yards with 0 TD & 0 INT. His completion percentage and total yards are still below average IMO. He started out looking good but he still had problems hitting the open receivers. He also made a few very bad decisions that we were very lucky to not have been game killing interceptions. He had a decent first half to this game but didn't look very good in the second half (along with the rest of the offense) as they lead us to no second half points.

Against Minnesota he was 26/42 for 254 yards with 1 TD & 1 INT. His numbers were ok in this game for the most part. But once again he came out of the gate looking good and moving the chains but fell flat in the second half. That second half was all about our defense dominating and our offense stalling.

Against Detroit he was 19/29 for 213 yards with 3 TD & 1 INT. His stats were great. He looked good for all four quarters and I for one was a very happy camper on Turkey Day. I was hoping this kind of performance would roll over into the Jacksonville game but it was not meant to be.

Overall I think Joey has played well for a backup. But I honestly have to say he hasn't played well (other then against Detroit) for a first string QB.

And the award for outstanding use of logic goes to...

 

[jlfin]

You don't have to take my word for it though, this is a classic example of a scouting report on Troy Smith...



Notice how many different things he does really well...and the main negatives are really that he's not as good with the deep ball as he is with the short and intermediate ball, his height, and his character.

The guy continues to display very solid work ethic, says all the right things to the media, etc...but in general, he's regarded as an @sshole off the field.

Out of all the players on your roster, the one who you can least afford to have character problems with is the leader of your offense (QB).

 

[Fineas]

You're kind of assuming he hasn't already figured it out.

With short guys (Brees) and guys with low deliveries (Rivers)..you worry about two things.

Vision. Can he see everything on the field?

Low ball. Will he get passes batted down?

In the cases of Brees and Rivers it was easy to see that they had already learned to compensate for their shortcomings by virtue of the results. Brees distributed the ball extremely well in college, as did Rivers, and as does Smith. Also, neither Brees, nor Rivers, nor Smith, have ever had any trouble with getting balls batted down at the line...in fact they seem to be keenly aware of the passing lane issues, probably BECAUSE of their "handicap".

I'd definitely go with Stanton before Kolb. I've seen Kolb and I honestly see nothing special about him. Stanton makes big plays against big teams...yet didn't have an ideal team surrounding him.

Most short QBs who have had any shot at playing in the NFL have figured out how to "compensate" for their height. Even for QBs of normal height, the idea is to use the passing lanes rather than trying to throw over a 6-6 DL who has his arms up. You really don't see a meaningful difference between tall QBs and short QBs in terms of the number of passes hit at the LOS. The impact on the QB's vision, if any, is harder to assess, but I don't know if there is a real strong argument that taller QBs perform in a way that shows better vision than shorter QBs.

 

[phinphan11]

Id love to see Cleo play.

We are out of the playoffs, and this is the time to see what Cleo has.

Worst case scenario he stinks it up and we dont really lose anything all that important

Best case scenario he lights it up and we have a great QB heading into next season

Likely scenario he plays about as well as Joey and we can dangle him or Joey for a draft pick

This would not be far from reality (or better)

What in the world would we have to loose? Pride? I realize some posters laugh at this possibilty, but you won't ever know unless he can get a chance. It just seems like it could be a great oppurtunity sometime in these last four games to let him show what he's got.

Sometimes you have to have some balls and go for it.