Merged X12: Ongoing Henne vs. Sanchez Debate... | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Merged X12: Ongoing Henne vs. Sanchez Debate...

eifmp said:
Sorry good sir, I'm not buying that bold statement. Are you going to theorize to me that over the full 2008-2009 season Henne NEVER practiced with the first team? The NFL is a league where the backup QB is always one hit away from being in the game. Henne had to have practiced with the first team at some point during his first NFL season as he was the 2nd QB on the roster. Henne probably knew the playbook a lot better having studied it over an NFL season. Henne was probably able to watch more tape of NFL teams during his first season. He learned from one of the brightest QB's to ever play the game in Chad Pennington. He wasn't thrown into anything.

Mark Sanchez had to learn an NFL playbook for the first time. Had to get used to his timing with the receivers. Had to adjust to the speed of the game. All this after only starting 1 year in college vs Henne's 4 years as a starter and a year as a backup learning the NFL game. So Henne has experience over Sanchez and that is why he played better. But does that mean he is the better and more talented QB of the two? No, it doesn't.

And of course Chad is a better QB he's a 10 year vet. For goodness sakes...Joe Theismann was playing better than John Elway when Elway was a rookie (1983). Elway (famously) lined up behind a tackle(or was it a guard?) his rookie season. Doesn't mean that Theismann was more talented than Elway. Not comparing Sanchez to Elway or Pennington to Theismann. Just saying to try to be objective and keep things in perspective.
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Yes, generally starting QBs practice with the first team. I don't think that's a bold statement at all. I won't downplay playing behind Pennington. I think that's huge, and certainly advantageous compared to Kellen Clemens.

I don't really understand the point of the second and third paragraph. Henne played better. Talent is irrelevant in this context...you can be the most talented QB to ever play, but if you play like crap and throw twice as many INTs as TDs, then your talent isn't translating.

To the people saying "Well, Sanchez stepped up in his biggest spots", you're having short term memory and only recalling the playoffs. Henne led game winning drives. He also made some huge 4th quarter and OT mistakes. The Titans game comes to mind (mostly because I was in the stands for that game), but to say that Henne shrank when he needed to step up is ignorance.
 
This has got to be a joke right I mean really. Henne will run circles around Sanchez. NFL NETWORK EVEN STATED HENNES THE BETTER QB
 
nyjunc said:
Yep, our team is old. We will be lucky to get one competitive year out of a team w/ old guys like sanchez, Greene, brick, Mangold, Cotch, Edwards, Holmes, Keller, Harris, Scott, revis, Cromartie,...:lol:



Henne was "thrown in" w/ zero pressure at 0-3. Sanchez had pressure all year. I think overall henne had a better year last year BUT Sanchez stepped up when we needed him most and henne stepped back when you needed him most.

This doesn't mean Henne won't be able to play under pressure but last year he wasn't able to. I think both QBs are going to be good based off what I saw last year.



but he didn't take over a 1-15 team and while we were 9-7 we had a HOF QB at 9-7. Was Sanchez great? of course not but he had a good season for a rookie. I am very happy w/ our QB situation as I think you guys are. It is possible that both of our teams have solved their QB question for a while.
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- This is the bias stuff that gets me when I read a response from you. Henne stepped in with 'zero pressure'?? Really? Would this be your 'professional' opinion on that or are you just pulling it out of thin air?

- "BUT Sanchez stepped up when we needed him most and henne stepped back when you needed him most."


So Sanchez "stepped up" and had games like;


24-14win 12com 15att 80% 182yrds 1TD 0INT 139.4 Rating - Had a great game but looking at the attempts wasn't asked to do much.

17-14win 12com 23att 52.2% 100yrds 1TD 1INT 60.1 Rating - Is this another game you would describe as he "stepped up"?

17-30Lost 17com 30att 56.7% 257yrds 2TD 1INT 93.3 Rating - I don't want to go back and see where he got most of his yards from, if it was after the Jets were forced to pass or not, because I didn't watch the game.

The point I am trying to make here is your defense and running game WERE the reasons the Jets won against the Bangels and the Chargers(although if there were ever a team as notorious as the Braves in baseball come post season it is the Chargers) and not Sanchez "stepping up".

While Sanchez finished his playoffs with the best rookie stats I fail to see where he "stepped up" according to these stats that he finished with.

It wouldn't bother me so much because I liked how Sanchez played in the playoffs but when you come on here saying Sanchez stepped up and immediately follow that up with Henne stepped back. It's that bias sentence. It's a TEAM GAME. You honestly think if the Jets made Sanchez carry the team that you would have won those two playoff games? Hell, it was BECAUSE of Sanchez that you almost didn't make the playoffs.
 
mnphinfan said:
I didn't come up with this it was Phrozen Phish from Phinsider.com did, but this is probably the best arguement for Henne that i have seen in this debate.
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Thank you for this info. Maybe this will quiet the "Sanchez is better then Henne" crowd but I doubt it.
 
nyjunc said:
Yep, our team is old. We will be lucky to get one competitive year out of a team w/ old guys like sanchez, Greene, brick, Mangold, Cotch, Edwards, Holmes, Keller, Harris, Scott, revis, Cromartie,...:lol:



Henne was "thrown in" w/ zero pressure at 0-3. Sanchez had pressure all year. I think overall henne had a better year last year BUT Sanchez stepped up when we needed him most and henne stepped back when you needed him most.

This doesn't mean Henne won't be able to play under pressure but last year he wasn't able to. I think both QBs are going to be good based off what I saw last year.



but he didn't take over a 1-15 team and while we were 9-7 we had a HOF QB at 9-7. Was Sanchez great? of course not but he had a good season for a rookie. I am very happy w/ our QB situation as I think you guys are. It is possible that both of our teams have solved their QB question for a while.
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Really?

Lets look at the stats...

Last 5 Games

Henne

13NEW 22-21 29 52 335 55.8 29 2 1 80.2 1 -1 -1.0 0
14@JACW 14-10 21 29 220 72.4 25 0 1 79.7 4 1 0.3 1
15@TENL 27-24 (OT)29 46 349 63.0 57 1 3 66.3 2 11 5.5 0
16HOUL 27-20 35 55 322 63.6 35 1 1 78.0 1 10 10.0 0
17PITL 30-24 16 20 140 80.0 24 1 1 91.7 1 0 0.0 0

Completions Att Comp Pct TD Int QB rating
totals 130 202 64.3 5 7 79.18


Sanchez

12CARW 17-6 13 17 154 76.5 26 0 1 79.0 3 27 9.0 0
13@BUFW 19-13 7 15 104 46.7 45 1 0 92.1 1 8 8.0 0
14@TBW 26-3 Did Not Play or did not accumulate any stats.
15ATLL 10-7 18 32 226 56.3 65 1 3 49.7 3 7 2.3 0
16@INDW 29-15 12 19 106 63.2 16 0 0 78.0 2 0 0.0 0
17CINW 37-0 8 16 63 50.0 14 0 0 60.2 2 2 1.0 0

Totals Completions Att CompPct TD Int QB rating

68 99 68.6 2 4 71.8


So the numbers are pretty similar. How exactly did Sanchez step up? How did Henne step back?

Here is what i do notice though. I notice that Henne was let loose, free to throw it all over the place. Yes he made mistakes but you live and you learn (hopefully) while Sanchez was some what protected. We can both agree (or at least the logical NFL fans) that at the time Sanchez had weapons unlike Henne. So we will see what happens this year.
 
mnphinfan said:
I didn't come up with this it was Phrozen Phish from Phinsider.com did, but this is probably the best arguement for Henne that i have seen in this debate.
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Great post, and might also be worth noting that Henne tied(or broke?) a franchise record(set by that...whats his name...Marino guy?) for consecutive completed passes against Jacksonville.
 
nyjunc said:
Henne was "thrown in" w/ zero pressure at 0-3. Sanchez had pressure all year. I think overall henne had a better year last year BUT Sanchez stepped up when we needed him most and henne stepped back when you needed him most.
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Others have thrown out the numbers, and in the past ive jumped on the fact that our defense gave up 84 combined points during the last 3 games(and we were still within a field goal/touchdown of tieing or winning those games), as well as debating the "no pressure" thing while driving a team in a 3 game hole to playoff contention.

So ill just ask this: instead of the 1st ranked defense the Jets were the 22nd, and you lost Thomas Jones and Alan Faneca halfway through the season as well, during that time, as Nick Mangold playing injured or out of games: does Mark Sanchez win 5 games last year?

Keep those factors in mind, for a second question ill ask this: lets say the jets don't trade for Edwards, and Cotchery is a rookie: does Mark Sanchez win 2 games?

Trying to figure out how to ask about having to start 2 rookie corners seemed like to much of a hassle, but you get the jist.
Despite all those factors mentioned above(and many more), Henne was 7-6 as a starter, while Sanchez was 8-7. Very compairable, but you have to admit that Henne and the phins would have stood a damn good chance against the Colts and Bengals second/third stringers.
 
This thread has gotten pretty quiet huh? Seems like there might be too much ACTUAL information here in Henne's favor and isn't making the Sanchize look too hot. But I am sure there is a reason the Jets fans are staying away right now.

Well, Happy Mother's Day to all the mothers out there!!!
 
You know I think they both have ability for sure. From what I saw last year it seemed that Henne was able to overcome making mistakes better last year. Sometimes it seemed when sanchez started to have a bad game it went from bad to worse very quickly. With that said he was a rookie and did not really have any solid veteren mentor on the team. At this point in time both of their futures look bright but I would say I think Henne has the advantage. Of course I am a little biased.
 
mrodriguez4096 said:
- This is the bias stuff that gets me when I read a response from you. Henne stepped in with 'zero pressure'?? Really? Would this be your 'professional' opinion on that or are you just pulling it out of thin air?

- "BUT Sanchez stepped up when we needed him most and henne stepped back when you needed him most."


So Sanchez "stepped up" and had games like;


24-14win 12com 15att 80% 182yrds 1TD 0INT 139.4 Rating - Had a great game but looking at the attempts wasn't asked to do much.

17-14win 12com 23att 52.2% 100yrds 1TD 1INT 60.1 Rating - Is this another game you would describe as he "stepped up"?

17-30Lost 17com 30att 56.7% 257yrds 2TD 1INT 93.3 Rating - I don't want to go back and see where he got most of his yards from, if it was after the Jets were forced to pass or not, because I didn't watch the game.

The point I am trying to make here is your defense and running game WERE the reasons the Jets won against the Bangels and the Chargers(although if there were ever a team as notorious as the Braves in baseball come post season it is the Chargers) and not Sanchez "stepping up".

While Sanchez finished his playoffs with the best rookie stats I fail to see where he "stepped up" according to these stats that he finished with.

It wouldn't bother me so much because I liked how Sanchez played in the playoffs but when you come on here saying Sanchez stepped up and immediately follow that up with Henne stepped back. It's that bias sentence. It's a TEAM GAME. You honestly think if the Jets made Sanchez carry the team that you would have won those two playoff games? Hell, it was BECAUSE of Sanchez that you almost didn't make the playoffs.
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haha cremember junc is in the "sports" business so his professional opinions are correct
 
Joneildu said:
Yes, generally starting QBs practice with the first team. I don't think that's a bold statement at all. I won't downplay playing behind Pennington. I think that's huge, and certainly compared to Kellen Clemens.

I don't really understand the point of the second and third paragraph. Henne played better. Talent is irrelevant in this context...you can be the most talented QB to ever play, but if you play like crap and throw twice as many INTs as TDs, then your talent isn't translating.

To the people saying "Well, Sanchez stepped up in his biggest spots", you're having short term memory and only recalling the playoffs. Henne led game winning drives. He also made some huge 4th quarter and OT mistakes. The Titans game comes to mind (mostly because I was in the stands for that game), but to say that Henne shrank when he needed to step up is ignorance.
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Your first paragraph: See that's my point...Sanchez was never behind Kellen Clemens, or anyone else, to learn anything at the NFL level. I also noticed how you mentioned about Henne not practicing with the first team (which I'm sure he did), but you didn't reference the other points of my previous rebuttal. About Henne studying the playbook, studying video, getting used to the speed of an NFL game all of those things over a complete NFL season: All advantages he had over Sanchez.

Your second paragraph: I think you DO understand the difference between playing better and having more talent. All the aforementioned advantages I stated in the paragraph above gave Henne and advantage going into his first NFL game that Sanchez never had. A rookie at the QB position in the NFL can be very talented. But that talent doesn't always translate in that rookie season for many reasons. Maybe his eyes have yet to register complex NFL defenses a 2nd year QB might have studied previously. That has nothing to do with talent. The game might be too fast for the rookie QB and it takes time and experience to get used to that. That has nothing to do with talent either. Or, it could be that the rookie QB just made some bad decisions, reads, and maybe some miscalculations. So when a rookie QB throws twice as many touchdowns as interceptions it might not always be the talent (or lack thereof), that person can turn out to be Jamarcus Russell or John Elway; both of whom threw at least twice as many INT as TD's in their rookie seasons.

My point is Sanchez can be terrible, average, above average, or even great, but one rookie season doesn't give the whole story. And if anybody thinks that it does tell the whole story, please elaborate. I mean, Dolphins fans are comparing him to a QB who sat and learned for an entire NFL season. The fact that you're even doing this means the battle is closer that it should be, even if Henne has the (slight) nod at the moment (not after next season though).
 
sanchez is to henne, as o'brien is to marino. this will be sorted out in another year or two. i think obrien started a probowl around 86, only to crash and burn like all other jet turds soon thereafter. wont matter though, as sanchez's "playmaker" moves hopping around the pocket are going to get him killed or left with brain damage.
 
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