MERGEx4-Who should stay and who should go?-Purge needed | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

MERGEx4-Who should stay and who should go?-Purge needed

PressCoverage

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Purge: Get younger, NOW.

We have the oldest starting defense in the NFL.

Let me repeat that, so that it sinks in a bit: The Miami Dolphins, 4-12 last year and trying to rebuild with a new coaching staff, have the oldest defense in the entire league.

Now, I am not trying to post negativity, nor disrespect any of the accomplishments of some great, GREAT Dolphins veterans on this team. It would be heart-wrenching to see them go.

However, people seem to think all Saban needs to do is revamp the offense and secondary, and that all the rest will remain static. The truth is that as the weaknesses improve, the strengths will rapidly decline (perhaps even faster). It will be very soon that our front 7 will begin "getting old". Perhaps as soon as later this season.

It was my humble opinion that this new regime should have purged the personnel this past offseason, and it is my confident opinion that it MUST do so this offseason. The experiment of keeping some veterans for buoyancy is not working out.

People put a bit too much stock in demanding 1st or 2nd for this player, etc., and "scrap the deal unless our demands are met." But, as Jimmy Johnson showed the league in 1989-1992, you just need DRAFT picks... And lots of them. Sam Madison for a fourth? Where do I sign? Chris Chambers for a 3rd? Where do I sign? McMichael for a 2nd? Done deal. Even Ricky for a fourth? Let's make a deal. No offense to any of these accomplished (yet aging players), but it's a business. I'd rather have a team of talented, hand picked 23-year-olds learning together, than a team of 29+ yearolds who haven't gotten over the hump, whose salaries escalate, and whose habits from past regimes are hard to break.

Now is the time when we must put our faith in Saban's eye for amateur talent, and in the Dolphins scouting department. Stockpile draft picks. Try to trade veterans, but if not, let them go and cut salary. For our elite favorites: JT and ZT, invite them back if they so choose, but at a slightly reduced salary. If not, out of respect for them, let them seek a trade for the money they feel they deserve and a shot at a title so so richly deserve. Otherwise, welcome back JT and ZT. Please help us nurture and cultivate this new crop.

I don't buy into the theory that going young completely sacrifices JT and ZT's remaining years. The 92 Cowboys were the youngest team ever to win it. I LOVE the theory that good, young, ****y teams don't know any better and don't get caught up in the pressure.

The point is, going into the draft armed with 12-16 picks gives a team much greater margin for error. Sure, there are going to be picks that don't pan out, but you increase your risk for great finds by increasing your opportunities to select them. You also have more picks to trade up and down with and get the players you want to target on draft day. We get a second for McMichael? Trade down with it, get another team's second, as well as their fourth. We get a fourth for Madison? Trade up a few notches along with one of our three acquired fifth rounders, and get that underrated safety before another team does.

Draft picks and salary cap space are the nectar by which new coaching regimes blossum. It's hard to do, and I'm sure loyalists on this board would flame some tough cuts/tradeaways. But the plain truth is this: We can not rebuild with older veterans. You can point to the Patriots, who added a few key aging vets, but even they stockpiled picks and drafted well (Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Samuels, Wilson, Brady, Light, Graham, Koppen, Hochstein, Ashworth, Watson, Branch, Givens, etc. etc.)

So here's my breakdown:

Some still productive veterans we have, who aren't going to get better, but who may bring something in return:

Sam Madison, Chris Chambers, Marty Booker, Jeno James, Kevin Carter, Vonnie Holliday, Keith Traylor, Lance Schulters, Randy McMichael, Stockar McDougle.

Could live without all of them, not to say I don't really enjoy some of them and their play this year. But these are the kind of players that might yield mid-round gems.

Some veterans, expensive or not, that can just go (for a 6th, or 7th, or just to cut salary):

Reggie Howard, Gus Frerotte, Seau (sorry, Junior, love ya), Donnie Spragan, Sammy Morris, David Boston.


Some proud and loved veterans that would be offered to return as a priority, but could still be shopped for a nice price if they wish to go/won't take a pay cut:

Jason Taylor, Zach Thomas, Ricky Williams.

Perhaps you're asking if there's anyone safe on the roster? Well, ask yourself that. Who is not expendable toward the aim of getting younger, faster, better, cheaper? Not many: I'll say only the guys who already are younger, faster and/or cheaper. It's a tough business, and there is little patience in this league from fans who demand results. But I'm no longer interested in treading water, as we've been doing for 15+ years. We bottomed out last season, and should have cleaned house. Save for ZT and JT, who should be afforded every opportunity to stay, the rest of the 4+ year veterans can all go.

That's not to say I don't like any of those players, it's just that we have them all now, and we're 3-6. Our veteran defense is showing cracks and wearing down at the same speed our young O-line and devastating RB is improving. Please let's not do this again next offseason with patchwork fixes of expensive 29-year-old veterans and 34-year-old QBs who "know the system."

Saban is supposed to be a great teacher and handler of young men. Let's get some Rah Rah!! back for our Dolphins. Younger is better. Trust it.


(let the flames begin)
 
The team can't just get rid of all the vets to become younger overnight. Saban brought in Crowder, Vickerson, Daniels, Roth and Wright. Those guys are all young. If Seau retires the average age will probably drop by a year. It's going to be a slow process and as fans we'll jsut have to be patient.
 
CanadaPhinsFan said:
The team can't just get rid of all the vets to become younger overnight. Saban brought in Crowder, Vickerson, Daniels, Roth and Wright. Those guys are all young. If Seau retires the average age will probably drop by a year. It's going to be a slow process and as fans we'll jsut have to be patient.

agreed... and i like the potential of all those players (save for maybe Roth)... keep them all and develop them...
 
Great post! I've personally always enjoy reading your input, and you come up with some great ideas. Keep it up Coverage.

And I'd love to be rooting for a young hungry Dolphins team that is up-and-coming and that NO ONE wants to play.
 
if we can get off the field consistently on 3rd down, the defense isn't the problem with this team
 
Seau is one of the most consistant LB we have when he is playing. When i see Spragan step in and try and do what Seau does it doesn't compare. I think if Seau wants to play another year here we give it to him and groom a LB right behind him for the year after.
 
PressCoverage said:
People put a bit too much stock in demanding 1st or 2nd for this player, etc., and "scrap the deal unless our demands are met." But, as Jimmy Johnson showed the league in 1989-1992, you just need DRAFT picks... And lots of them. Sam Madison for a fourth? Where do I sign? Chris Chambers for a 3rd? Where do I sign? McMichael for a 2nd? Done deal. Even Ricky for a fourth? Let's make a deal. No offense to any of these accomplished (yet aging players), but it's a business. I'd rather have a team of talented, hand picked 23-year-olds learning together, than a team of 29+ yearolds who haven't gotten over the hump, whose salaries escalate, and whose habits from past regimes are hard to break.
I dont like our chances of finding a beter wr than Chris in the 3rd or a beter tight end than Randy in the 2nd.
 
Chris Chambers is 27 years old, Randy Mac is 26. I really like the idea of getting younger but why trade guys in their prime for draft picks (2nd, 3rd ?) which you will not be able to get a better starting player?

Perhaps we shouldn't be signing old veterans as free agents and we should be giving more time to young players to see if they have the ability to replace some of the older guys but trading Chambers and McMichaels for a 2nd and 3rd doesn't really add up to being a step in the right direction in my book.
 
This post seems like a basic ignorance of what Saban is trying to do. He's trying to balance the future between winning now.

If you want to see a connection between Bill Belichick and Nick Saban, look at how they build their teams.

When Bill Belichick took over in 2000 won the Super Bowl in 2001, he did it with an OLD team. And not just the players he inherited, alot of the players he brought in, especially on defense, were older players. He brought in guys like Terrell Buckley, Bryan Cox, Roman Phifer, Bobby Hamilton, Anthony Pleasant, Mike Vrabel. Older, unheralded players.

He picked up players who can run his scheme, and then drafted players to replace them.

Not only that, but he didnt throw out older players on the team, either. Guys like Ted Johnson, Willie McGinest, Troy Brown, Tedy Bruschi, etc.

Nick Saban is trying to do the exact same thing. He brought in guys like Kevin Carter, Vonnie Holliday, Keith Traylor, etc. for a reason. They fit his scheme, and they can teach, and transition the team.
 
Saban has already done a good job of getting the D some youth(see Canadianfinfan above) next draft and FA period and we will have a mix of young and old that can compete and sustain for years to come.
 
Press, I agree with with the exception of keeping Madison....and I also believe that players like JT, Zack and Ricky can still produce.
 
I agree with the post, but I think you have to take salary and the likelihood of finding better players into consideration. For example, there isn't a better #2 RB at a cheaper price than Ricky Williams. For that reason you don't trade him. Also, we probably won't find as good a TE as McMichael in the draft. For that reason you don't trade him either.

So yeah, let's get young, but let's analyze it position by position and take price tags into consideration. The main two I'd like to see go are Madison and Chambers. I don't think Chambers will EVER warrant his salary, and Madison is showing too many signs of age to warrant his. Jeno James may be another guy who isn't warranting his salary, but I don't know enough about offensive line play to know.

I think the best strategy is to look at salary first, then age, then productivity. Clear out all the guys who have shown a consistent pattern of not warranting their salaries, and try to get draft picks for them. Next take a look at a guy's age and salary and project how productive he'll be in relation to his salary when we think the team will be ready to contend.

In other words, don't just use the "get young fast" approach across the board. Use it where it makes the most sense.
 
I agree with Press coverage to a point but what your saying is too extreme and will not work. All it will give you is a bunch of young kids that will take about 4 years to learn how to play in the NFL. The one thing I always enjoyed about being a Dolfan was that we were competitive every year. We never had up & down years like every other team in the NFL. We are getting younger and will continue to do so now that we have Sabin here not trading away our future picks. We will have the right mix soon enough of vets and young guns.
 
Jesus Christ, not another get rid of everyone thread.

Why in the world would we get rid of McMichael?
The guy is top 5 TE in the league...so get rid of him in the hopes that we get another top 5 TE? What in the world would be the logic behind that? The guy is in his mid 20s. So is Chris Chambers. What do you want to get 18 year old kids?

Oh and I can just imagine what getting rid of veteran Mia leaders like ZT and JT will do for morale and player confidence in the lockerroom.

What you people fail to realize is that Saban is not frikkin Parcells. He has no reputation in the NFL. He has to earn the players trust just like they have to earn his. Jesus, you guys want him to just go in there and clean house. I can just imagine what you people would say if he did that and we had the inevitable 49ers season of today...
 
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