Locke
They looked like strong hands.
I take Murray, pass on Lock. We should be taking the right QB, not just any QB.
Miami Dolphins No Closer To A Coach But Details To Coming Philosophy Become Clearer
- Thread starter DKphin
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I take Murray, pass on Lock. We should be taking the right QB, not just any QB.
I don't understand the philosophy at all. What good is a Top 5 pick, unless it is the first pick?
As I posted a week or two ago, there are not 15 elite quarterbacks out there for 2020. Who cares about a comparison to 2019? The comparison is to top of the league.
I see Tua in that category. But no one else.
Fromm is a nice rhythm seam passer like Andy Dalton. But he's not going to scare anybody. Huge danger to make Jake Fromm out to be more than he really is. Supposedly he has very small hands. That is a disqualifier in itself.
Justin Herbert is a former 3 star prospect. He looks young and soft and plays young and soft. This year he actually dropped way off, from 67% to 59% and from 9.6 YPA to 7.8 YPA. He looks okay to me but I think Lock is a slightly superior version of the same type of player.
The Utah State kid Jordan Love has more upside than anyone outside Tua, IMO. But he is not in Tua's class.
As hoops pointed out, the trade up price is going to be astronomical. He actually understated matters. I would say more like 4 first round draft choices to trade up for Tua, and that is only if you are within striking distance.
It looks like the Dolphins are trying to enter situational influence territory for the first time, but since they have no background in it they are making poor conclusions and sticking within a narrow conventional wisdom window, instead of recognizing that the parameters explode to the extreme when the situation is that obvious.
As I posted a week or two ago, there are not 15 elite quarterbacks out there for 2020. Who cares about a comparison to 2019? The comparison is to top of the league.
I see Tua in that category. But no one else.
Fromm is a nice rhythm seam passer like Andy Dalton. But he's not going to scare anybody. Huge danger to make Jake Fromm out to be more than he really is. Supposedly he has very small hands. That is a disqualifier in itself.
Justin Herbert is a former 3 star prospect. He looks young and soft and plays young and soft. This year he actually dropped way off, from 67% to 59% and from 9.6 YPA to 7.8 YPA. He looks okay to me but I think Lock is a slightly superior version of the same type of player.
The Utah State kid Jordan Love has more upside than anyone outside Tua, IMO. But he is not in Tua's class.
As hoops pointed out, the trade up price is going to be astronomical. He actually understated matters. I would say more like 4 first round draft choices to trade up for Tua, and that is only if you are within striking distance.
It looks like the Dolphins are trying to enter situational influence territory for the first time, but since they have no background in it they are making poor conclusions and sticking within a narrow conventional wisdom window, instead of recognizing that the parameters explode to the extreme when the situation is that obvious.
Well you don't have to have the #1 pick. Say you have the 4th pick, it doesn't mean all three teams in front of you are in the market for a QB. It's also just easier to get to #1 from the top 5 as opposed to #10 or something
That's not how it works. Those teams will understand market value. They aren't going to take some everyday defensive lineman when they know darn well the quarterback is worth exponentially more on the open market.
Besides, as I stated above I don't think there are multiple elite quarterbacks. I believe that will shake out as 2019 unfolds and particularly as more scrutiny is attached to Jake Fromm.
It might be technically easier to get to #1 from #5 instead of #10, but not that much. The Dolphins are really kidding themselves if they are holding on to a theory like that. The team with that first pick will understand it owns the golden ticket. Even the team with the #2 pick would be required to pay a fortune to move up.
Rowdy1972
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You are absolutely right. A top 5 pick probably doesnt do us much good. We need the TOP PICK.
Regarding disruptive interior linemen, I have no idea why it took the Dolphins so long to figure that out. A little edge guy like Wake is not bothersome at all compared to a gap splitting ruffian smack in your face.
All the Dolphins had to do was look across town. The Canes dynasty years were always accomplished with that elite upfield defensive tackle, from Jerome Brown to Russell Maryland to Cortez Kennedy to Warren Sapp to Vince Wilfork.
Then once Wilfork departed the Canes fell way off and a major part of that was the lack of elite defensive tackles. They finally had a very nice season this year from formerly troubled Gerald Willis. And Willis would still be a risk in the draft due to all of the issues he has had.
All the Dolphins had to do was look across town. The Canes dynasty years were always accomplished with that elite upfield defensive tackle, from Jerome Brown to Russell Maryland to Cortez Kennedy to Warren Sapp to Vince Wilfork.
Then once Wilfork departed the Canes fell way off and a major part of that was the lack of elite defensive tackles. They finally had a very nice season this year from formerly troubled Gerald Willis. And Willis would still be a risk in the draft due to all of the issues he has had.
russianbear
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It makes for 2019 a perfect storm for the Dolphins to acquire a potentially game-changing QB for less than typical value because of the cloud of uncertainty surrounding Murray, and his less than ideal physical makeup.
To me, that equates to value for a team like the Dolphins. Similar to when Laremy Tunsil fell in our laps because he smoked pot. As if 90% of the players in our locker room don't already smoke pot. It was a great value. I see something similar with Murray, and if we only have to move up to 7-10, or hell, not move up at all to get our guy...well, that's a solid move, regardless of whether or not Murray works out or not.
Murray is touted as one of the greatest HS Football players in Texas history. He won the Heisman. He's been playing with his own height restrictions his entire life. It's obviously not something that bothers him and if the NFL scouts let it bother them...well I think it's their loss.
I agree with moving on from any component of the organization that does not perform up to or exceed the expectation implied by position, responsibility, or compensation. I do not always agree with the evaluation, but I have no issue with the approach.
fin415
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They did figure the problem out, just didn't solve the problem the right way: Suh
meatpardle
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It's an illogical statement on multiple levels.
72champagne
the annual ritual
So their philosophy means we’ll suck next year? Hardly shocking. That’s what it’s meant for decades.
Not me. I would be ecstatic if we dumped those two. A couple of the most overrated dolphins I’ve ever seen.
Mike8272
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If we went 12-4 something must have happened in order to get us to that point and I wouldn't be complaining!
The defense must have clicked and become a top ten unit, unless of course we simply out scored our opponents like the Chiefs did this year and the Saints have done in years gone by, and if it was due to a high powered offense then that means we must have hit on a quarterback either through the draft, free agency or trade. And even if the offense isn't high power and is just highly effective, that is nothing to be dismissed because it means our quarterback play is good enough to make us a 12 win team and perhaps the running game has become a key strength as well.
Obviously the aim right now is to tank and rebuild, but if we happen upon a 12-4 season we have to make sure that we back that up with further winning seasons and continue to get better. However, if it's another one off like the last two double digit winning seasons then that is arguably useless, unless of course that 12-4 season followed by let's say a 6-10 is with a young quarterback under center (e.g. Grier, Lock etc). At that point we might have our franchise quarterback but rather than kick on there has been regression, so the aim would then be to bounce back.
With that said, if the aim of this team is to tank, then they should follow the method that the Jaguars and Browns did. Trade anyone with value that is not a long term piece, and cut loose any veterans that have limited value but could still contribute to potential wins. Gut the roster and build around young players in starting positions, and only sign and retain veterans that are there for their leadership and team skills rather than their on field production. That way we should be able to ensure a tank unless those youngsters surprise people...
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I just don't understand why Miami's front office would even put it out there. Unless the media is running with partial information. Why say you want a top 10 pick? It makes no sense and, to your point, the team would have to have the #1 overall pick or #2 overall if you are convinced on another qb other than Tua. To be that bad, the Dolphins would likely have to start Fales or bring in a Mark Sanchez type quarterback.
I actually like Haskins better than Herbert at this point. Lock is intriguing simply because he has a rifle and can make all the throws. He could be a coach killer, though, with his inconsistency. I love Murray, with his build my only real concern. Can he take the pounding?
Perhaps, the front office is putting a smoke screen out there, perhaps not. But, if you are convinced on a quarterback in this draft go for it. If not, build the lines.