Miami Dolphins Scheme Changes Will Be Challenging Says Grier | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Miami Dolphins Scheme Changes Will Be Challenging Says Grier

Wouldn’t surprise me at all if with this news Miami was to go two jumbo edge options with versatility and a dt in the first 2 days of the draft.

Not one bit.

This bumps Woodward’s chances for the 19 rotation hurts Charles harris chances and imo eliminates undersized/light in the pants edge options from early draft contention.

At least for me it will.
 
Birdmond said:
I don’t think he’s better than Sam Hubbard who went in round 3.
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He should have accepted the Shrine Bowl invite and left the Senior Bowl alone. He barely won in the practices.
 
DKphin said:
When the Miami Dolphins made the play for Brian Flores they did so with the hopes of turning their horrible defense into something special. The rub is that in New England the Patriots ran a variety of defensive schemes that were based out of a 3-4. The Dolphins do not have the pieces for a 3-4.

At defensive end, Andre Branch and Robert Quinn do not fit the 3-4 outside linebacker type while Cameron Wake and Charles Harris do. Miami has two good tackles in Vincent Taylor and Davon Godchaux but neither can play as a nose tackle and it is uncertain if they can slide outside.

This is only one challenge that these changes will bring and Dolphins GM Chris Grier spoke about those on Monday.

– “It’ll be different. It is. It’s a little bit of a challenge because you are always looking for different pieces and parts there. I think the way the NFL is now, a lot of teams bounce back and forth between a 3-4, whether it’s Under or Over (formations). It’ll be a little bit of a project, I guess like you said, in terms of finding those pieces. There are some pieces here. (Flores) said he liked some of our pieces obviously going against us a couple of years, especially some of the offensive pieces he liked a lot. But it will be a process, as he’s talked about.” MiamiDolphins.com

https://phinphanatic.com/2019/02/05/miami-dolphins-scheme-changes-will-challenging-says-grier/
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Just curious, what % of snaps did NE run a 3-4?
 
hoops said:
Wouldn’t surprise me at all if with this news Miami was to go two jumbo edge options with versatility and a dt in the first 2 days of the draft.

Not one bit.

This bumps Woodward’s chances for the 19 rotation hurts Charles harris chances and imo eliminates undersized/light in the pants edge options from early draft contention.

At least for me it will.
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You're on it, hoops. The exception to the undersized edges would be guys who can also play LB, as NE likes LB's who can blitz and/or rush off the edge, and generally battle with OL, and Hightower and Van Noy were two of their most valuable defenders throughout the playoffs. Miami doesn't currently have a LB like either on the roster. Doubt they'd look to spend big in FA to acquire one, but Anthony Barr would be a great fit (better role for him than what Minnesota asked him to do). Josh Allen won't fall to Miami, but he'd be a fit. Don't think guys like Polite or Burns have enough tape at LB to say they'd fit, and Burns is light for that role, too.
 
I think Mr. Flores might be pleasantly surprised with how well Mr. Godchaux will fit at nose in a 3-4 base.
 
j-off-her-doll said:
You're on it, hoops. The exception to the undersized edges would be guys who can also play LB, as NE likes LB's who can blitz and/or rush off the edge, and generally battle with OL, and Hightower and Van Noy were two of their most valuable defenders throughout the playoffs. Miami doesn't currently have a LB like either on the roster. Doubt they'd look to spend big in FA to acquire one, but Anthony Barr would be a great fit (better role for him than what Minnesota asked him to do). Josh Allen won't fall to Miami, but he'd be a fit. Don't think guys like Polite or Burns have enough tape at LB to say they'd fit, and Burns is light for that role, too.
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right. converted edges to off the los lbs in the pats system. and like you said josh allen no chance. most of those types get drafted as 34 olbs fail there and then get kicked to off the los lbs to try and rescue their careers. exceptions obviously but to use high draft capitol on that is highly projection based. it's easy to project josh allen for the ask cause of his joy stick movement skills and barr has nfl space tape play too but I think I'd be getting the poa and win the los on the los ask fits frame and game wise with my high picks in year 1 .

and I know you don't like rashan gary and I don't much like his outside shoulder win at the next level but I could see Miami viewing him as it's jumbo version of trey flowers with more inside scheme ask versatility and letting the scheme drive the pass rush over the pure edge outside shoulder win talent. we need more physical power players so we don't get our asses kicked at the los every time we face a physical front. we are soft. term I would use is finesse. of course there are other options for the ask too which wont cost you as much draft capitol.
 
Miami won’t run a traditional 3-4.

J-Off already hinted at it. Miam will have more DBs on the field than anything else. Kwon will be a starter still and presumably Baker too. Kiko might be on the outs and they need to draft as many pass rushers as possible.

Christian Wilkins would be an excellent fit as a end Flores might covet. Big, strong, Agile. He’s basically Trey Flowers.
 
hoops said:
right. converted edges to off the los lbs in the pats system. and like you said josh allen no chance. most of those types get drafted as 34 olbs fail there and then get kicked to off the los lbs to try and rescue their careers. exceptions obviously but to use high draft capitol on that is highly projection based. it's easy to project josh allen for the ask cause of his joy stick movement skills and barr has nfl space tape play too but I think I'd be getting the poa and win the los on the los ask fits frame and game wise with my high picks in year 1 .

and I know you don't like rashan gary and I don't much like his outside shoulder win at the next level but I could see Miami viewing him as it's jumbo version of trey flowers with more inside scheme ask versatility and letting the scheme drive the pass rush over the pure edge outside shoulder win talent. we need more physical power players so we don't get our asses kicked at the los every time we face a physical front. we are soft. term I would use is finesse. of course there are other options for the ask too which wont cost you as much draft capitol.
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Regarding the draft, the two LB's who fit the Kyle Van Noy role - or are at least potential fits - are Slimm's top Seniors, Germaine Pratt and Otaro Alaka. Both can cover in zone, and Pratt has some solid tape in man coverage, as well. But, they both have the frames to take on OL and tape as effective blitzers. Outside of that, you're looking at edge guys who can maybe play LB in the scheme - like Justin Hollins, Christian Miller, D'Andre Walker, Landis Durham, and Malik Carney. Maybe even Porter Gustin, but he's had a lot of trouble staying healthy. At DE, you mentioned Gary and Nelson, and I agree that they're fits. I just wouldn't like Gary at 13. Ferrell is also a fit, as is Charles Omenihu and Zach Allen. Sweat is light, but he has the length that NE likes in their DE's, so it'd probably depend on how much they think he can add to that frame. I don't see a lot of other players (maybe some will emerge) that fit what NE asked of its DE's and LB's.
 
Phinatic8u said:
Miami won’t run a traditional 3-4.

J-Off already hinted at it. Miam will have more DBs on the field than anything else. Kwon will be a starter still and presumably Baker too. Kiko might be on the outs and they need to draft as many pass rushers as possible.

Christian Wilkins would be an excellent fit as a end Flores might covet. Big, strong, Agile. He’s basically Trey Flowers.
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Wilkins is a lot bigger than Flowers, though - like 30-40 lbs. He's be more like Guy in this D imo.
 
I think Jerome Baker can play that Van Noy role. He can add some muscle to that frame and be able to handle it. He showed some good things last year as it went on. Kwon can be a better version of Hightower if he can develop properly.
 
j-off-her-doll said:
Wilkins is a lot bigger than Flowers, though - like 30-40 lbs. He's be more like Guy in this D imo.
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Very true, Wilkins is just so damn quick and fluid to be his size that I forget he's 300 damn pounds. Yes I'm a homer, but if you add him to your DL you got your rooms leader and best player day one. Miami needs that kind of guy.
 
Phinatic8u said:
Very true, Wilkins is just so damn quick and fluid to be his size that I forget he's 300 damn pounds. Yes I'm a homer, but if you add him to your DL you got your rooms leader and best player day one. Miami needs that kind of guy.
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I do think he has the athleticism to play DE in odd fronts, and he's a smart/good player, who Miami could end up liking a lot. I feel like he's unlikely to develop into a star DT, but he has an excellent chance of being very good for a long time, and he's the type of person (to go along with the player) that I could see the new staff prioritizing. At 13, I'd feel about him like I felt about Fitzpatrick. There's probably someone better on the board, but I get it, and it's a solid pick.
 
Get your nose tackle in the later rounds - two guys that I've always liked are Anthony Rush and Olive Sagapolu.

I like Armon Watts as a 5T if they're moving to an odd front. You don't see many guys his size that can bend and sack the quarterback like he can.

However, the point about 5-7 DB's is the real one to pay attention to here. Teams can say they're a 4-3 or a 3-4, but you're rarely ever going to be in either one. You're going to be in some variation of nickel or dime defense the majority of the time. 4-3 or 3-4 is really just more of a philosophy (1 gapping, 2 gapping, etc.) than a base defense. Your base defense is usually going to be a 5 or 6 DB package.

We're rarely ever in a true 3-4 defense anymore under Saban. We're usually either in a 4-2, 2-4, or 3-3 look. What Miami will be looking for in my opinion is versatility with the DB's. That's what makes you able to be versatile on defense in terms of your front. Installing a defense - your front is always based off the coverages you're going to run.
 
j-off-her-doll said:
Regarding the draft, the two LB's who fit the Kyle Van Noy role - or are at least potential fits - are Slimm's top Seniors, Germaine Pratt and Otaro Alaka. Both can cover in zone, and Pratt has some solid tape in man coverage, as well. But, they both have the frames to take on OL and tape as effective blitzers. Outside of that, you're looking at edge guys who can maybe play LB in the scheme - like Justin Hollins, Christian Miller, D'Andre Walker, Landis Durham, and Malik Carney. Maybe even Porter Gustin, but he's had a lot of trouble staying healthy. At DE, you mentioned Gary and Nelson, and I agree that they're fits. I just wouldn't like Gary at 13. Ferrell is also a fit, as is Charles Omenihu and Zach Allen. Sweat is light, but he has the length that NE likes in their DE's, so it'd probably depend on how much they think he can add to that frame. I don't see a lot of other players (maybe some will emerge) that fit what NE asked of its DE's and LB's.
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I don't even know who half those lb guys are but I'm gonna find out. have either of those top 2 guys listed rushed on the edge vs tackles and had any success even with a power rush? cause van noy and hightower did in college and koa misi if he was still here I could even see as a potential fit. i dont like McMillan for the ask. just dont think he gives you much of anything rush wise off the edge on the los. in terms of gary I think they may see him as having more versatility than other options at that size and frame etc but I get where you are coming from. I just don't think it can be ruled out.

and sweat yeah I think that comes down to length relative to carry weight. 5th year guy at 245 with that length how come he doesn't pack more lbs on that frame already question that has to be answered.

but whatever we do I want heavy handed guys who chew glass and live football. be nice also if they had the hips to flatten to the qb but you are likely gonna have to give on that some with jumbos
 
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